Alph Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, uttoxram75 said: I believe there is a sinister group who need to keep us divided. If ordinary people didn't hate each other they may well look at who's running the show and blame them for the state of things. Definitely. Some media tycoons and politicians will be high fiving over this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, Alpha said: But how many people didn't go that don't want our monuments trashed? These thugs don't speak for Britain. Do the people of Britain want to 'counter protest'? Surely as @Eddie said, a counter protest is saying Black lives don't matter. That's exactly what the majority went to do today. To counter protest. Get back in your place, negros. That was the attitude of many that went down. How dare these minorities raise their hands against us. This is Britain for British people. It's a white country blah blah blah And that is what the media will paint. BUT they are not me or many other posters on here that were outraged by some of the things that happened last weekend. Many Brits know that to go against BLM is to ignore issues. As we know to destroy monuments is to create issues. You know if today was about protecting British history then I'd have gone. But I knew it would go further. I knew this was a revenge march. Tommy Robinson pretty much said so early in the week. There is no way for us to be heard. To defend my British heritage or culture I have to look to those Bamfords today. To protect monuments from criminals I have to look to criminals. With tensions as they are nobody will listen to the millions of Britsh that will sit and talk. The media won't give us the coverage. It will go to the extremes of either group. You can't genuinely think that British history or heritage or culture is under threat though because some protestors damaged a few statues? It's far from ideal behaviour, but surely it's trivial compared to the extra barriers that black people have had to deal with for so long. Imagine being a black parent in Bristol and having an inquisitive child who wanted to know more about the statue they walked past everytime they walked into the town. Imagine the child does some more research and discovers the company that the guy from the statue used to work for branded the company initials on the slaves that they owned. How do you explain to the child why this statue remains standing? And that the native population don't really hate you, but history is complicated right, and there is shades of grey everywhere. And that they should just accept it, as we don't want to threaten British heritage afterall. And there is a process in place that might eventually get the statue removed. But it seems to be taking forever for some reason. Because history is complicated. And we don't want to upset anyone who wants the statue to remain, because it's been there a long time you see. We don't want to think about that sort of thing either. It's all in the past isn't it. Just ignore the statue please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: I believe there is a sinister group who need to keep us divided. If ordinary people didn't hate each other they may well look at who's running the show and blame them for the state of things. Thank god we have the likes of Johnson, Farage and Johnson, fighting against the elites to ensure everyone has a fair deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: I believe there is a sinister group who need to keep us divided. If ordinary people didn't hate each other they may well look at who's running the show and blame them for the state of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 All lives matter. poo, not allowed to say that I'm racist ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 If ever you needed proof that the Telegraph, Mail and Express were trying very hard to sanitise yesterday's display of outright fascism that Mosley's Blackshirts would have been proud of, you only have to look at Sunday's front pages. When you control the narrative, then by and large you control public opinion. Throwing a statue of a slave merchant into the harbour or defacing a statue of Sir Winston Churchill? That's deadly serious. Pissing on a memorial to a hero, throwing Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph or assaulting the police? Inside page news if you're lucky. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53037832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Eddie said: If ever you needed proof that the Telegraph, Mail and Express were trying very hard to sanitise yesterday's display of outright fascism that Mosley's Blackshirts would have been proud of, you only have to look at Sunday's front pages. When you control the narrative, then by and large you control public opinion. Throwing a statue of a slave merchant into the harbour or defacing a statue of Sir Winston Churchill? That's deadly serious. Pissing on a memorial to a hero, throwing Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph or assaulting the police? Inside page news if you're lucky. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53037832 Add sky to the list: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, philmycocu said: All lives matter. poo, not allowed to say that I'm racist ☹️ Those people yesterday don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Anon said: You yourself made the direct comparison first. It is absolutely ridiculous that you'd attempt to claim "whataboutism" in this circumstance. I did indeed, it was a shameless comparison which you won't read about in the Express, Telegraph or Mail tomorrow. It must be really awkward to be a right-wing press mogul tonight, knowing and seeing what happened yesterday (scuffles) and having to somehow justify or at best ignoring a moron pissing on the epitaph to a real hero while condemning the (rioters) tossing of the statue of a slave-trader into the harbour. I don't think they will have trouble sleeping though. I hear it's quite restful in the Cayman Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I don't think I could be more disillusioned with the country anymore than I am currently. I hate seeing our national monuments vandalised, I can't support desecrating war memorials, I also don't support the lager drinking thugs that were marching today. It feels like the world has gone crazy and I'm left in the middle. I think my views pretty much align with @Alpha on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Eddie said: If ever you needed proof that the Telegraph, Mail and Express were trying very hard to sanitise yesterday's display of outright fascism that Mosley's Blackshirts would have been proud of, you only have to look at Sunday's front pages. When you control the narrative, then by and large you control public opinion. Throwing a statue of a slave merchant into the harbour or defacing a statue of Sir Winston Churchill? That's deadly serious. Pissing on a memorial to a hero, throwing Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph or assaulting the police? Inside page news if you're lucky. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53037832 Are you aware that people are actually going to click on the link to see if you're accurately representing things? The Mail and The Telegraph both feature pictures of the violence on their front page. The Express doesn't, but they didn't feature any story about last weeks' violence on the front page either. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/sunday-express-1070/20200607 https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-mail-on-sunday/20200607 https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20200607 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: You can't genuinely think that British history or heritage or culture is under threat though because some protestors damaged a few statues? It's far from ideal behaviour, but surely it's trivial compared to the extra barriers that black people have had to deal with for so long. Imagine being a black parent in Bristol and having an inquisitive child who wanted to know more about the statue they walked past everytime they walked into the town. Imagine the child does some more research and discovers the company that the guy from the statue used to work for branded the company initials on the slaves that they owned. How do you explain to the child why this statue remains standing? And that the native population don't really hate you, but history is complicated right, and there is shades of grey everywhere. And that they should just accept it, as we don't want to threaten British heritage afterall. And there is a process in place that might eventually get the statue removed. But it seems to be taking forever for some reason. Because history is complicated. And we don't want to upset anyone who wants the statue to remain, because it's been there a long time you see. We don't want to think about that sort of thing either. It's all in the past isn't it. Just ignore the statue please. I kind of do. After seeing Columbus Statues beheaded I felt that it was only a matter of time before it was taken a step further. War memorials we damaged and to me that's a big deal. I accept it isn't to everyone but you must accept that it is to a lot of people. Why would you damage them if they're just statues? They are symbols of Britain and British history. Churchill and War Memorials are Britains footprints. I think I went on enough the other day what statues etc mean to me and how we can go about continuing to celebrate our history, expanding on it and further including black history into British history. I see no shame in educating Children in black slavery or the British Empire. In fact I would encourage the whole story to be told. The brutal colonisation. The wealth from slavery. Bristol flourished thanks to trading African slaves. Bristol's history will always include Colston. Now I get that he is also a symbol of oppression. And for that it could be taken down and moved to a museum. But not ripped down I don't agree with any part of destroying history. Not of Muhammed (the Paedophile?) Churchill (the racist?) Colston (the slaver?)... anything. Maybe that's just my love for history. I mean slavery built empires and kingdoms across the world. Slavery has existed long before Britain or England. A quick google tells me of a man called Olaudah Equiano. I have never heard of him, have you? I would much rather a black boy in Bristol be able to look upon a statue of someone like that. Understand what his ancestors faced, what they had to overcome. In a city that shipped over a half a million African slaves I think it would be relevant to celebrate the journey it's made to diversity (or thinks it's made) Mary Seacole is another notable black Briton that I've never heard of. Maybe there should be more symbols of equality. But imo no statue is just a statue. They all tell a story. Some tell great stories of entire people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: Add sky to the list: Sky News twitter feed from last weekend. (https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Askynews%20since%3A2020-06-06%20until%3A2020-06-08&src=typed_query) I'm really struggling to find all these instances where they referred to riots or rioters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, Andicis said: I don't think I could be more disillusioned with the country anymore than I am currently. I hate seeing our national monuments vandalised, I can't support desecrating war memorials, I also don't support the lager drinking thugs that were marching today. It feels like the world has gone crazy and I'm left in the middle. I think my views pretty much align with @Alpha on this. Depressing isn't it? So much anger and hate. The blame game and eye for an eye mentality. Slightly off topic but did you see Anthony Joshua's speech/letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Why are war memorials like the cenotaph being targeted anyway ? Probably me being thick but what have they to do with racism ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 8 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I'll give you a clue. BLM protests involved 1000s and 1000s of people and a very small minority of them caused trouble. The counter protests seemed to cause an equivalent level of trouble, but without the additional 1000s and 1000s of peaceful protestors. They even ended up attacking the police who were also trying to prevent criminal damage they were against. I was not saying one side's yobs were better than the other sides yobs. I was saying that one side was mostly yobs and the other side contained countless peaceful protestors with a very legitimate point to make. So much coverage on the criminal activities of a small number of people (nice one Johnson). There is a bigger problem here that needs dealing with. And it's not Fawlty Towers. I agree with you 2 wrongs don't make a righ when it comes to trouble. The positive to take from comparing the 2 protests is that one is attended by 1000s and the other barely a 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Highgate said: Demonstration, or indeed protest, would be absolutely fine by me for the broader issue of racial equality. Protests work and should be allowed (while they remain peaceful) without fear of a crackdown from authorities in any country that values the freedom of it's citizens. Vandalism, I'd agree with you generally speaking. I think it simply erodes support among the wider community for the cause more than anything else. If most people didn't know who Colston was, then his statue was pointless anyway. If people did do some research, then I'm sure they can't have been too impressed by what they found out. I've read that people are calling for the Colston statue to be replaced on his plinth by a statue of a civil rights campaigner. Surely we can all agree that would be progress. I am pretty sure we don’t really disagree. Colston was clearly a huge piece of unpleasantness. But taking him down ? Because we don’t like him ? And where do you draw the line. History needs its evidence to be visible .. we are only discussing the BLM movement bcause there was a video of the cop kneeling on Floyd .. should be take that vid down from you tube ? ... If anything the statue needs to be there so we can talk and learn about it. As a footnote .. and I should have acknowledged this before from your earlier post. Yes peaceful demos are to be lauded. I think it was unnecessary in a pandemic to have a demo about a tragedy on the other side of the world where the race culture is different. The vast majority of protesters however were peaceful and I support their right, sadly though I think we all know there is a hard core who want trouble, want to provoke the police, want society to be damaged. The far right only come out of their rat holes because that hard core of left wing thugs are there .. They ensure each other’s existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I just feel so sad watching this. It just seems clear groups of people have gathered in the guise of protesting when its clear they just wanted a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 "What has become of the tolerant Britain we love?" asks The Daily Mail with a straight face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 It is utterly disgusting, what on earth must the family of Keith Palmer thing of this? I am appalled, I know it may be very harsh but I hope the person in it is recognised and he is receiving a call form his employer today explaining why he will no longer be required to turn up for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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