ramsbottom Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Curtains said: Well according to most Rowett had no creativity but Millwall did a job on us Yes, by waiting for us to gift them a goal, then sitting deep. That statement has simply highlighted our short comings even more... For the record, Rowett's brand of football is just as bad as we're playing now. His plus points were a red hot Vydra and an idea of his best XI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: Yes, by waiting for us to gift them a goal, then sitting deep. That statement has simply highlighted our short comings even more... For the record, Rowett's brand of football is just as bad as we're playing now. His plus points were a red hot Vydra and an idea of his best XI... That’s very true. He’s also winning games 5 wins 3 draws 1 defeat https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gary-rowett/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/15225/verein_id/1028/datum_zu/2019-10-23/datum_ab/0000-00-00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Squid said: Was linked with him, just a bit of a tongue in cheek comment as he's pretty crap He'll fit right in with us then! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Curtains said: That’s very true. He’s also winning games 5 wins 3 draws 1 defeat https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gary-rowett/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/15225/verein_id/1028/datum_zu/2019-10-23/datum_ab/0000-00-00 Bit of a pointless view considering he's no longer our manager. Unless you're implying you'd like his back??? Millwall fans are happy shithousing teams as were (some) Birmingham fans, but Stoke weren't, and neither were we. Some manager's styles fit clubs well, some don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: Bit of a pointless view considering he's no longer our manager. Unless you're implying you'd like his back??? Millwall fans are happy shithousing teams as were (some) Birmingham fans, but Stoke weren't, and neither were we. Some manager's styles fit clubs well, some don't No I like Cocu. I don’t think Derby fans allow his type of football though. Getting annoyed at home when we try to play out from the back with possession football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Curtains said: No I like Cocu. I don’t think Derby fans allow his type of football though. Getting annoyed at home when we try to play out from the back with possession football It's about finding the balance, we need to get it forward a bit quicker. It's getting a bit too similar to the Clement era of possession for possession's sake. Unfortunately we don't have a prime Tom Ince to bail us out the crap when it isn't working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, ramsbottom said: It's about finding the balance, we need to get it forward a bit quicker. It's getting a bit too similar to the Clement era of possession for possession's sake. Unfortunately we don't have a prime Tom Ince to bail us out the crap when it isn't working... We will soon have Rooney though. The lad will totally change everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: No I like Cocu. I don’t think Derby fans allow his type of football though. What type of football? I'm seeing nothing. We've literally got no identity whatsoever. As Shane Nicholson said, you ask someone 'how do Derby play?' and they wouldn't be able to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: We do have pace to get in behind from midfield. Lawrence, waghorn and holmes all have enough speed about them to get in Behind... certainly no less so than bryson back in the day .... there is one fundamental difference I disagree that they are quick enough. I would say that Waghorn is on the slower side and tbf Holmes isn't actually a fast sprinter. They certainly aren't quick enough for teams to think about their pace and worry about how much space is behind them. The point of having players that are quick is to push the opposition back to create space in the middle of the pitch for players like Bryson (you are right he isn't and wasn't a fast sprinter) used to exploit and he did exploit the extra room between midfield and defence. 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: Bravery and desire Nigel clough spoke about it when he was here as a midfielder to keep making that run past the front man it takes hunger, desire and bravery bryson had it in abundance ... hence why he made a name for himself getting the goals that he did, and of course our front man actually had support around him. His starting position was closer to Martin as well due to everything being played 10 yards further forward. 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: The whole thing imo is frankly concerning We don't have a player can make those runs from deep currently. Certainly none that you would put money on scoring, at least. I think that is why in pre season Cocu tried Marriott in the number 10 role, and probably realised that Marriott does not seem to have the fitness for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Getting annoyed at home when we try to play out from the back with possession football There is possession to make progress and there is possession as an excuse for cowardice. Derby are totally scared to go forward or take a man on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Curtains said: We will soon have Rooney though. The lad will totally change everything. He won't be able to do it all on his own. Especially when he's being played in a difference position every game... 51 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: What type of football? I'm seeing nothing. We've literally got no identity whatsoever. As Shane Nicholson said, you ask someone 'how do Derby play?' and they wouldn't be able to tell you. Pretty sure what you were replying to was a Curtains quote. But you're right, we seem to change how we go about games each and every week, often within games. Which would be a good thing if we had better, more adaptable players, but we don't. 25 minutes ago, FindernRam said: There is possession to make progress and there is possession as an excuse for cowardice. Derby are totally scared to go forward or take a man on. Agreed. I'd say there's only really Holmes in the middle who'll look to break between the lines. If we're so static in our movement, the only way we can create space is to commit more than one of the opposition to engage the ball. Once opponents have set up two banks of four, we've hardly got a clue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazal77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Have we ever won a match that Evans has started? He’s the weak link in our squad in my opinion. Now I’m not saying the other players are good because quite frankly there not, but Evans is proper rubbish. If we had a decent holding midfielder then the other midfielders could at least feel confident in moving into space instead of having to position themselves ready to get back when we lose the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, Bazal77 said: Have we ever won a match that Evans has started? He’s the weak link in our squad in my opinion. Now I’m not saying the other players are good because quite frankly there not, but Evans is proper rubbish. If we had a decent holding midfielder then the other midfielders could at least feel confident in moving into space instead of having to position themselves ready to get back when we lose the ball We beat Bristol 2-1 away last season with Evans at CB for the majority of the game. His best performance in a Derby shirt that day. 2-1 win over Huddersfield at the start of the season. Again, a good performance... Not saying a rate him that much, but you did ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 "Creativity is intelligence having fun." Not much fun at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Bazal77 said: Have we ever won a match that Evans has started? He’s the weak link in our squad in my opinion. Now I’m not saying the other players are good because quite frankly there not, but Evans is proper rubbish. If we had a decent holding midfielder then the other midfielders could at least feel confident in moving into space instead of having to position themselves ready to get back when we lose the ball Evans has our seventh highest pass accuracy percentage and his is higher than Bielik’s and Huddlestone’s. The holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 isn’t supposed to be the distributor like he is in the 4-3-3. He doesn’t have as many players playing in-between the lines to pass to and has another midfielder playing next to him and not ahead of him. Then take into consideration how narrow we are a lot of the time which makes us easy to squeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazal77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, ramsbottom said: We beat Bristol 2-1 away last season with Evans at CB for the majority of the game. His best performance in a Derby shirt that day. 2-1 win over Huddersfield at the start of the season. Again, a good performance... Not saying a rate him that much, but you did ask... He hasn’t been here long but I think in total it’s 2 league games that he’s started we have won and a few cup games we have won. he’s awful and I my opinion with him in the starting line up we will never progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazal77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, cannable said: Evans has our seventh highest pass accuracy percentage and his is higher than Bielik’s and Huddlestone’s. The holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 isn’t supposed to be the distributor like he is in the 4-3-3. He doesn’t have as many players playing in-between the lines to pass to and has another midfielder playing next to him and not ahead of him. Then take into consideration how narrow we are a lot of the time which makes us easy to squeeze. He may have a high pass accuracy but it’s only ever back to the defenders. See my other post, we do not win when he is in the side. He hides from the game. Even if he had players in between the lines he wouldn’t pass to them. In my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 hours ago, rynny said: I disagree that they are quick enough. I would say that Waghorn is on the slower side and tbf Holmes isn't actually a fast sprinter. They certainly aren't quick enough for teams to think about their pace and worry about how much space is behind them. The point of having players that are quick is to push the opposition back to create space in the middle of the pitch for players like Bryson (you are right he isn't and wasn't a fast sprinter) used to exploit and he did exploit the extra room between midfield and defence. His starting position was closer to Martin as well due to everything being played 10 yards further forward. We don't have a player can make those runs from deep currently. Certainly none that you would put money on scoring, at least. I think that is why in pre season Cocu tried Marriott in the number 10 role, and probably realised that Marriott does not seem to have the fitness for it. We’ll have to agree to disagree from what I saw the season bryson scored a truck load and other seasons too he scored from all sorts of starting positions the fundamental difference was the service into Martin was exponentially better than it is now, which allowed Martin to do what he does best ... bring others into play and we could take teams apart be it starting from deep in a fluid counter with Russel or Dawkins carrying it at pace or high up in the oppositions box it’s all about quality quality of ball into Martin quality of lay offs / awareness Th at brings players like bryson into play Bryson has the desire to get in and around and past that front man we have no such thing now at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: We’ll have to agree to disagree from what I saw the season bryson scored a truck load and other seasons too he scored from all sorts of starting positions the fundamental difference was the service into Martin was exponentially better than it is now, which allowed Martin to do what he does best ... bring others into play and we could take teams apart be it starting from deep in a fluid counter with Russel or Dawkins carrying it at pace or high up in the oppositions box it’s all about quality quality of ball into Martin quality of lay offs / awareness Th at brings players like bryson into play Bryson has the desire to get in and around and past that front man we have no such thing now at the club Agree about the quality of ball into Martin. He's not a giant, play it in head height and he'll do his best to win a free kick, and that's all. Play it between his chest and his foot however, even direct from the back, and he'll win it and do something useful if he has teammates around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 11 hours ago, FindernRam said: Saw an analysis yesterday that looked at the number of key passes individuals contributed in a game. Our best player was Tom Lawrence at 1.4 per match. Then you see that he was 41st on the Championship list! No wonder we don't get many goals. I’m struggling with the fact that Tom Lawrence makes 1.4 passes per match, never mind good passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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