V Millwall matchday thread

[superzak]

Anyone remember the 1982 rams side Emson Brolly Cherry Mcalle Foster  Attley Dalziel they were absolute dross as footballers but i loved everyone of them. Why...because their ability as footballers was very low...but they gave their all on a dire Baseball ground pitch and played as a team. Thats whats lacking in cocus side... a team...a group of players who are proud to wear the shirt...i see very little pride in that group  of players.

[rammieib]

Classic when Dowell tried desperately to keep the ball from going for a Derby throw in, only fail to trap it and it rolls out.

If ever a moment sums up his (limited) Derby career, that was it.

[angieram]

Reading today's match thread just makes me incredibly sad.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Reading today's match thread just makes me incredibly sad.

How did watching the game make you feel? Only had awful RD commo to go on.

[Allovertheplace]

3 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:

Today he was up against a manager even newer to his job than he is, with an even worse team than ours and they beat us quite comfortably. Both the players and Cocu deserve blame.

I wouldn't take a single player from Derby's line up, anyone who thinks that you have a good team are deluding themselves.... Your current results and form is the result of a poor transfer policy that last season revolved around building a team around short term loans from Premiership clubs. Signing a 28 year old for £9million was also a piss poor decision. 

 

A few other posters called Millwall a poor side are doing Millwall a disservice. 2 away games in 5 days, 2 wins against Bristol City (we controlled that game) and Derby, 3 wins and 1 draw in the last 4 away games, unbeaten in 8 matches, playing the best football we've seen in a long time. We will end up 5th-9th come the end of the season.

Jed Wallace on current form is one of the best players in the division as well. 

The first half we were in complete control and you couldn't get out of your half or find someone wearing a white shirt. Second half we tired after a long week and were happy to sit back against a team whose creativity came from long throws and hopeful 50 yard balls. 

Bristol City fans were very complimentary towards us, we also recently dominated Swansea, Birmingham, Nottingham Forest, Stoke and Charlton. 

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/204533-millwall/

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

Didn't many say Preston at home was some of the best football since Mac 1?

I agreed with that at the time however I'm starting to suspect it was a massive fluke.

Today's match was the worst I've seen in the last six years.

This might not be the best collection of individual players I have seen wearing a Derby shirt but they looked completely confused about their purpose today and looked devoid of confidence as a result.

Quite what Cocu is up to in his coaching of these players is a mystery to me.....what I do know is that Steve McLaren was sacked,on both occasions,for getting our players to perform roughly twenty times better than cocu has managed for the entire season.

Incidentally he was at the match today.......he must have laughed his baalocks off.

[RamNut]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did watching the game make you feel? Only had awful RD commo to go on.

And that was fookin awful. I listened at the match and had to keep removing the headphones. Ed dawes - 90% Comment and opinion, 10% description - arguing the toss over every decision with craig. He makes your ears bleed. 

[RamNut]

2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Steve McLaren was sacked,on both occasions,for getting our players to perform roughly twenty times better than cocu has managed for the entire season.

Incidentally he was at the match today.......he must have laughed his baalocks off.

I don't think he stayed to watch. I couldn't see him in the director's box with the other players - i might be wrong.

[Ruud Aralliss]

3 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said:

Just got back and not read any posts as I can kind of imagine them.

Thought Wednesday was poor, this on par but Wednesday a better team.

Low points of the night for me was the booing! People booing 19 yr old Bogle who already looked lacking in confidence going forward. While the booing was on the bloke behind me was screaming RUBBISH Derby, when I challenged that booing won’t help, he told me he wasn’t booing??!!?!?

Lowest point was Being behind about 30-40 millwall fans when about 3 or 4 of them assaulted what looked like a 13-14 yr old with his mother walking the other way.  1 Policman was there, didn’t do squat. Proud of their reputation aren’t they singing it after the assault. 

Not sure @angieram what part of that carried the laughter emoji ( ?)

[DavesaRam]

Cocu hsn't been helped by injuries - Beilik being a major loss. However, having apparently given up on getting championship plodders to play Premier League level football, we had two or three games of good football, but which little by little subsided back to where we are now. So two up top was the most threatening for ages, so we go back to one up top - Marriott - who isn't a one-up top target man, then Martin hopelessly isolated and therefore can't do much. Playing in the middle behind Martin saw the best performances from Tom Lawrence, and always has doen, so what do we do? I know - stick him back out on the wing. That'll get the best out of him! All this before we lost Beilik,

Shinnie getting in jured was also a blow because his box-to-box ratting made the system work, so we do miss that. But we've got a lad whos game is just that. straining at the leash, but he doesn't even get put on the bench - Sibley. What has he got to do to get a look in, when other players seem to keep their place by just slorming through the 90 minutes?

Cocu has said he doesn't want to put the players in too soon, or burn them out, or play them in a struggling team. That didn't stop him throwing the whole lot of them into the fiery cauldron of the City Ground, did it? What damage could that have done to the young lads?

But as others have said, the biggest problem is the lack of passion. Apparently on Wednesday Sky, who are nver kind to us, were criticising our attitude- spmething I don't think I have ever heard them say before.

Is it that he hasn't got the squad on side because of the constant tinkering, players out of position, not knowing where they stand, or because they can't cope with what is being asked of them? 

I don't know, but I am worried - as i said this is the worst offering I have seen, even allwoing for the dubious teams of the past.  And yes, i endured the Newman years, and I don't have any answers, apart from trying to go back to what worked for the Preston game and a couple of others, with two up top. Oh, and we do have more youngsters who are doing the business in the under 23s. Surely it is worth giving them a look in?

[goldstar]

6 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

This might not be the best collection of individual players I have seen wearing a Derby shirt but they looked completely confused about their purpose today and looked devoid of confidence as a result.

Dont they just! The one who stands out most to me is Bogle. What happened to bombing into the box from the wing? Instead he gets the ball and stops on the halfway line, by which time every opposition player has got back into position. Its infuriating to watch. Get forward and create!

[Derby blood]

Well that was poor, the players where poor, the fans booing was poor, thank god I have Christmas to look forward to. We will and must get better, feeling very low tonight, the whisky should help to numb the pain. 

[RamNut]

7 minutes ago, Allovertheplace said:

Your current results and form is the result of a poor transfer policy that last season revolved around building a team around short term loans from Premiership clubs. Signing a 28 year old for £9million was also a piss poor decision. 

A few other posters called Millwall a poor side are doing Millwall a disservice. 2 away games in 5 days, 2 wins against Bristol City (we controlled that game) and Derby, 3 wins and 1 draw in the last 4 away games, unbeaten in 8 matches, playing the best football we've seen in a long time. We will end up 5th-9th come the end of the season.

Correct, altho we like to think that our pishpoor recruitment has a much longer track record - infact ever since Mel took over tbh ( p.s. I don't think it was £9m - but i agree with the general principle)

Millwall are a typical championship side, very similar to sheff wednesday. Physical. Well organised. Not dirty like Wednesday were  tbh. 

Unfortunately we can't match that at the moment. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

12 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I don't think he stayed to watch. I couldn't see him in the director's box with the other players - i might be wrong.

Can hardly blame him but if I had known he was sneaking off I would have been tempted to bundle him into a van and drop him off at the moor farm training pitches....he might hang around long enough to introduce the art of scoring goals to cocu on the next training day.

[Ruud Aralliss]

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did watching the game make you feel? Only had awful RD commo to go on.

For all the criticism RD gets I’m pretty sure that they didn’t exaggerate our problems 

[Allovertheplace]

Just now, RamNut said:

Correct, altho we like to think that our pishpoor recruitment has a much longer track record - infact ever since Mel took over tbh ( p.s. I don't think it was £9m - but i agree with the general principle)

Millwall are a typical championship side, very similar to sheff wednesday. Physical. Well organised. Not dirty like Wednesday were  tbh. 

Unfortunately we can't match that at the moment. 

We're a side full of Championship level players, but as Warnock has shown, with the right manager you can get a side full of Championship players to the play-offs with the right tactics and organisation. 

Harris had us playing League one style football with a defeatist mentality of sit back away from home and try to knick a goal.... Resulted in a game earlier in the season away to Fulham where we only had 13% possession...... We were a very poor side under Harris, but not anymore, I would back us to go to any team in this league and give them a game, we've deserved to win every one of our last 8 matches, and have thrown points away when we have drawn rather than gained a point. Even the last minute equalizer against Forest, we should have been 3-0 up in the first half alone. 

Rowett has us playing good football, creating good chances and very direct. Our centre backs used to hoof it about 20/25 times a match each under Harris, now it's a lot more controlled.

He knows the division, knows what it takes to win matches at this level, knows what type of players it takes to succeed, a real coup of an appointment for us to be honest, in the past we've only had applicants such as Holloway or Lomas, so to have a manager who can actually organise a team and have some tactics that belong in the 21st century is a novelty. 

[RamNut]

33 minutes ago, superzak said:

Anyone remember the 1982 rams side Emson Brolly Cherry Mcalle Foster  Attley Dalziel they were absolute dross as footballers but i loved everyone of them. Why...because their ability as footballers was very low...but they gave their all on a dire Baseball ground pitch and played as a team. Thats whats lacking in cocus side... a team...a group of players who are proud to wear the shirt...i see very little pride in that group  of players.

Rose tinted glasses there mate, they were shocking.

i can remember when gemmill came back. He passed to mick brolly and then a look of disbelief and contempt came over his face, as he watched brolly try to cross it. There is an interesting parallel though, because around that time we thought we had a great A team of young players who were going to be the players of the future. Steve cherry, john lovatt, wayne richards, frank sheridan, david hunt, paul bartlett, steve cotterill (yes him), andy crawford, colin chesters, tony reid, steve spooner, alan cork. Let that be a lesson. Very few make it. 

[ColonelBlimp]

22 minutes ago, Allovertheplace said:

I wouldn't take a single player from Derby's line up, anyone who thinks that you have a good team are deluding themselves.... Your current results and form is the result of a poor transfer policy that last season revolved around building a team around short term loans from Premiership clubs. Signing a 28 year old for £9million was also a piss poor decision. 

 

A few other posters called Millwall a poor side are doing Millwall a disservice. 2 away games in 5 days, 2 wins against Bristol City (we controlled that game) and Derby, 3 wins and 1 draw in the last 4 away games, unbeaten in 8 matches, playing the best football we've seen in a long time. We will end up 5th-9th come the end of the season.

Jed Wallace on current form is one of the best players in the division as well. 

The first half we were in complete control and you couldn't get out of your half or find someone wearing a white shirt. Second half we tired after a long week and were happy to sit back against a team whose creativity came from long throws and hopeful 50 yard balls. 

Bristol City fans were very complimentary towards us, we also recently dominated Swansea, Birmingham, Nottingham Forest, Stoke and Charlton. 

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/204533-millwall/

Thanks for your input Mr Millwall, but i don't think anyone here thinks we have a good team.

We have a handful of good players but not a good team.

[Andicis]

27 minutes ago, Allovertheplace said:

A few other posters called Millwall a poor side are doing Millwall a disservice. 2 away games in 5 days, 2 wins against Bristol City (we controlled that game) and Derby, 3 wins and 1 draw in the last 4 away games, unbeaten in 8 matches, playing the best football we've seen in a long time. We will end up 5th-9th come the end of the season.

You're a poor side. You may have beaten the worst Derby team in 10 years, but you didn't look anything special. If we weren't absolute dross, you were there for the taking. You won't be anywhere near the playoffs. Snakey's teams only do well whilst they are underestimated, if teams sit back against you, you'll get a huge amount of draws.

[jono]

1 hour ago, Emson said:

Lack of courage comes from a lack of belief

Lack of belief comes when you have no confidence in what you are trying (or being told to try) to do

Either way, that's down to the management and the culture that they create, no one else

Just my opinion based on experience at the University of Life

All true, but having attended the same university, sometimes you have to acknowledge that you share some responsibility and have to have some internal self belief and spirit of your own and be able to act on it. It’s “managements fault” or “I was just following orders” is not the whole story.