Big Bad Bob Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 I've often pondered over loans. To me they either work out or don't. If they don't work out we are glad to see them return to the parent club. If they work out then what happens after the loan ends? Their value goes up so we can't afford them. They return to their parent club. We are left with a large void to fill. Which we have struggled with this season after the return of Tomori, Mount and Wilson. In has come Dowell.... I'm sure there is a player in there somewhere, but I would imagine his confidence is quite low. Maybe loans are useful stop gap to temporarily fill a void. So loans, good idea or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 If we keep Dowell til the end of season then it’s a chuffing terrible idea i have never seen a “technical player” that so cheap the ball to compound it though he tracks back like ur stereotypical “technical player” after today and tbh his loan spell in general he needs to look in the mirror and decide if he really wants to be a professional footballer or not hope to god he’s got a good education behind him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Loans are a good idea if you have a good team in charge of transfers. Without Lampards contacts we just go back to normal and sign questionable players on loan. The whole reason we have to use the loan market is because of FFP limitations. Its an easier way to get Prem level quality into the side without spending big. It doesnt really matter if they will only be here for a season - if they help us get promoted it doesnt really matter. However i dont trust the current scouting team to do anything. As long as there are no changes in that department id rather just burn the cash in a big pile in the middle of Pride Park and hope the youth players come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Right now I'd say a good idea. If we try and plug the current gaps with permanent signings we're going to get bent right over, especially now that it's common knowledge we have investment funds heading our way. Notoriously tricky window to find value. Two or three decent loan players now with an option to buy would see us through to summer when we will hopefully have a clearer idea of what we need as well as the funds to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Big Bad Bob said: I've often pondered over loans. To me they either work out or don't. If they don't work out we are glad to see them return to the parent club. If they work out then what happens after the loan ends? Their value goes up so we can't afford them. They return to their parent club. We are left with a large void to fill. Which we have struggled with this season after the return of Tomori, Mount and Wilson. In has come Dowell.... I'm sure there is a player in there somewhere, but I would imagine his confidence is quite low. Maybe loans are useful stop gap to temporarily fill a void. So loans, good idea or not? We've been spoiled by last season's loans, Mount in particular. Mason was ready for the top tier, only Frank's pull saw him end up with us. Wilson and Tomori were class too, again I'd suggest Frank was the reason Wilson came, and while Tomori was well within our talent range when signed, he improved a hell of a lot over the season. For me, you can split loans into 3 categories. 1. Young lads who's natural ability should make them unsignable to us in the long term, the best we can do is leverage that talent while providing experience that benefits both us and them, like Mason and Harry. 2. Promising players whose careers haven't quite taken off, a good loan spell could see them return to parent clubs with reputation enhanced, but equally we'd have a chance of signing them permanently at the end of the loan. Thorne, Dawkins, Dowell even Tomori spring to mind. 3. Experienced pros who you'd feel fairly certain improve the team, but for various reasons don't make their own clubs line up. Martin, Fozzy, Eustace, Andy King etc. From what Cocu has said, and how he's operated before, I'd be surprised if any incoming loans didn't fall into the 3rd category, pointless taking the likes of Dowell on when it blocks one of our own youngster's progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Martin was a fairly ordinary loan? But when we signed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Loans aren’t the problem, the muppets bringing them in are. The signing of Dowell is cause for dismissal of them for me, blokes stealing a living. I’ve seen kids who are better players than him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 If we bring in a good loan then we become reliant on them. When they go back, what then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramslad1992 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Big Bad Bob said: If we bring in a good loan then we become reliant on them. When they go back, what then? Then we find ourselves in the same position we do now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Big Bad Bob said: If we bring in a good loan then we become reliant on them. When they go back, what then? We replace them with someone else. If we hadnt loaned mount, wilson and tomori last season we'd have been languishing in the bottom half of the table. We wouldnt have been able to afford to buy any players of their quality and we had no youth ready to step up. We were fully aware they werent going to be here this season and decided to do nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Am generally not in favour of loan players, unless it's with an option to buy. To me they are a shortcut attempt at building a competitive playing squad, a goal that should be reached by the longer route. Paying fees for loan players is outlandish i think, both the club loaning out a player and the club receiving the loan player gain by the deal, the former in the long term, the latter in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 If we had borrowed a few players with an option to buy we might have saved ourselves from some silly signings. On the other hand i would question why a manager would want a loan signing. If a manager isn’t really confident in his own judgement then maybe that’s the real problem. At this club I think it’s those who meddle in recruitment who push this particular option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Big Bad Bob said: If we bring in a good loan then we become reliant on them. When they go back, what then? Option to buy or we replace with a permanent signing in a window where there's some value to be garnered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 So when we have good loans its because of the manager and when we have bad loans it's because of the scouting and recruitment department. I'd like to know how people get their insight into what happens behind the scenes. In response to the OP, they are a bad idea for the very reasons you have outlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Only time loans are good (to a team like us) is when they are of exceptional quality and are a means to either getting or keeping you up. Can see lower teams taking them purely to boost the squad without breaking the bank, but that's not really any use for us, it just blocks our own youth. The only other time I think we should look was if we had an injury spanning several months and needed cover until that player returned (better than spunking £10m on replacements), or if we have a situation like Martin where it is pretty much try before you by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 If we had beaten Villa at Wembley then the loans would have been an excellent idea. Even if they all went back we would have funds for decent replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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