Quality

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Do you genuinely believe that or are you just on the wind up? Serious question. 

I thought Wassall should have got the job in the summer, so we could hit the ground running.

At the end of the day, people are talking about Cocu being a long term appointment, implementing youth, and having a vision.

Why couldn't the man who has worked in English football all of his career, knows the club inside out, and has actually overseen the development of our Academy achieve exactly that?

[BondJovi]

Let us not forget without Mount last season we were pretty much awful. Now we have lost more quality than just him. I think the whole Keogh affair has seriously damaged us behind the scenes but that shouldn't excuse some reccuring poor choices. The only technically quality player we have is a half cooked Martin and you can add Huddlestone to that. Lawrence in a one in 7..

Just a mess.

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Well,Watford have grabbed Pearson so we’ve mucked that one up.

Can you imagine it? Absolute scenes and not in a god way!  Has there ever been an instance of mass spontaneous combustion before?

[Nuwtfly]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I thought Wassall should have got the job in the summer, so we could hit the ground running.

At the end of the day, people are talking about Cocu being a long term appointment, implementing youth, and having a vision.

Why couldn't the man who has worked in English football all of his career, knows the club inside out, and has actually overseen the development of our Academy achieve exactly that?

Because being good at working in a developmental environment, like an academy, does not guarantee or constitute success at Championship level.

I appreciate it also doesn't exclude success at this level, but you can't tell me it's some cut-and-dry obvious appointment to make. The world of football just doesn't work like that.

Also: he had an audition for that job when Clement went. Mel gave him a chance and he not only did a really bad job, but also failed to gain the respect of the dressing room and massively alienated a large portion of our fan base. 

That was his chance to get the job. He wasn't good enough. 

[King Kevin]

20 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Well,Watford have grabbed Pearson so we’ve mucked that one up.

Yep stopped the rot today with a draw.

[Jourdan]

32 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

And everyone was so positive when he was last at the helm, weren't they? Jeez, it'd be a bloodbath on here the first time we lost a couple of games. No disrespect to Wassall, I actually rate him but bringing him in now when morale is so low and half the squad is out injured would be grossly unfair to both him and Cocu. 

 

Well, no they weren't.

But at the end of the day, fans respond to intent. And I'm sure Wassall would get us playing a more attractive and logical brand of football almost instantly.

Personally I'd rather draw 2-2 or 3-3 away from home than lose time and time again.

I just think Cocu might have the vision, but is it actually aligned with the rest of the club?

The under 18s and under 23s are earning rave reviews for their fearless, attractive, winning style of football. Those teams produce football in no way similar to what we've seen from Cocu's.

 

[desirelines]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Well, no they weren't.

I think he was being sarcastic mate 

[Comrade 86]

11 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Well, no they weren't.

But at the end of the day, fans respond to intent. And I'm sure Wassall would get us playing a more attractive and logical brand of football almost instantly.

Personally I'd rather draw 2-2 or 3-3 away from home than lose time and time again.

I just think Cocu might have the vision, but is it actually aligned with the rest of the club?

The under 18s and under 23s are earning rave reviews for their fearless, attractive, winning style of football. Those teams produce football in no way similar to what we've seen from Cocu's.

 

Agreed but our youth teams are some of the best squads out there as evidenced by their results as much as their style of play. Cocu has no such luxuries at his disposal, not even close.

If after he's had a season or two to assemble a squad to match his philosophy, we still look toothless, then fair enough, but given the rubbish transfer window after the Lampard debacle, the stripping of by far the most talented players for the squad, the chronic injury list and the undermining of the team morale through their own drunken idiocy, I'd venture there is ample mitigation at hand after a mere 20 games. The strength of the youth set up did not come overnight, my friend, it was years in the making and it came about through shrewd investment and consistency of coaching staff over a period of years. 

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, desirelines said:

I think he was being sarcastic mate 

Moi, sarcastique? ?

[Anon]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

When you figure Tom Lawrence is probably our best player on performances / potential and he probably manages two decent games in ten it tells you where we are ,our next most undroppable player is Holmes and much as I really like his energy and attitude he is high div one low championship quality 

You're point is correct, but I'm unreasonably annoyed you didn't say one decent game in five.

[BondJovi]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

When you figure Tom Lawrence is probably our best player on performances / potential and he probably manages two decent games in ten it tells you where we are ,our next most undroppable player is Holmes and much as I really like his energy and attitude he is high div one low championship quality 

I think Martin is vital and that is worrying as he has been out of it for 2 seasons! Bielik also has the potential, but once past that...

[Jourdan]

16 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Because being good at working in a developmental environment, like an academy, does not guarantee or constitute success at Championship level.

I appreciate it also doesn't exclude success at this level, but you can't tell me it's some cut-and-dry obvious appointment to make. The world of football just doesn't work like that.

Also: he had an audition for that job when Clement went. Mel gave him a chance and he not only did a really bad job, but also failed to gain the respect of the dressing room and massively alienated a large portion of our fan base. 

That was his chance to get the job. He wasn't good enough. 

This was almost four years ago, so I suspect you are merely rewriting history to suit your argument.

In any case, do you not think he has learnt from that experience? Do you not think he has grown and built up his authority and confidence?

His work with the Academy would command the respect of any player with a brain.

His work with the Academy makes him an even better judge of which players are ready to step up.

And most crucially, his success with the Academy points to the fact that he is promoting positive, attacking football. Something we are not seeing with Cocu.

Are we not trying to achieve a consistent style from the youth teams through to the first team?

[lagavulinram]

No wassel. No!

[Jourdan]

9 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Agreed but our youth teams are some of the best squads out there as evidenced by their results as much as their style of play. Cocu has no such luxuries at his disposal, not even close.

If after he's had a season or two to assemble a squad to match his philosophy, we still look toothless, then fair enough, but given the rubbish transfer window after the Lampard debacle, the stripping of by far the most talented players for the squad, the chronic injury list and the undermining of the team morale through their own drunken idiocy, I'd venture there is ample mitigation at hand after a mere 20 games. The strength of the youth set up did not come overnight, my friend, it was years in the making and it came about through shrewd investment and consistency of coaching staff over a period of years. 

I'm not saying there aren't mitigating circumstances. There are, obviously. It's not been an easy job, but do you not see signs that he's making the job even harder for himself?

The reason I'm championing Wassall is that he understands the club inside out, he has worked at the club for many years, he knows what Mel wants, he has stepped out of the limelight and found success, and most crucially, he promotes the kind of football we like to see.

Of course, there are no guarantees he'd do well with the first team, but at least we know he'll try to get the team playing the right way.

Wassall's thinking matches up with the overall club philosophy. Does Cocu's, one has to wonder?

[Nuwtfly]

8 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

This was almost four years ago, so I suspect you are merely rewriting history to suit your argument.

In any case, do you not think he has learnt from that experience? Do you not think he has grown and built up his authority and confidence?

His work with the Academy would command the respect of any player with a brain.

His work with the Academy makes him an even better judge of which players are ready to step up.

And most crucially, his success with the Academy points to the fact that he is promoting positive, attacking football. Something we are not seeing with Cocu.

Are we not trying to achieve a consistent style from the youth teams through to the first team?

Rewriting history? I can only infer from this comment that you either a) didn't follow us back then, didn't see those games and therefore don't recall that period of time, or b) that you are engaging in some sort of Trumpian "alternative facts" argument with me. #VoteHilary ?

Do I think he has learnt from that experience? I would assume so. You learn from everything, right? The good and the bad.

Working in an academy does not command you the respect of "any player with a brain." Come on. 

Your argument just seems to be based around the idea that success in an academy means you'll be successful at first team level, when that just isn't always the case. There's no evidence to suggest that he would do well in this job. There is evidence to suggest he wouldn't, though. Half a season or so of it. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Oh come off it! We barely scraped in with Mount, Tomori and Harry WIlson in a side that was nowhere near as blighted with injuries as this season's squad but because you're not happy with the gaffer, we've suddenly got 'more than enough quality' to replicate the feat? I don't buy that at all and I'm the biggest happy-clapper on the forum! ?

Not quite 86,you are always the happy clapper of the current set up,whatever it is (admirable loyalty mate,we have had the discussion previously).

And yes,I do think we are capable of being top six in 'this' championship year (not necessarily last year's) which is a weak one.

If cocu was to deploy our strikers effectively we wouldnt have to totally rely on our midfielders to get the goals as per last year 

Mount and Wilson both had barren patches last year don't forget,mount being dropped for several games as I recall.

 

[JfR]

5 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Not quite 86,you are always the happy clapper of the current set up,whatever it is (admirable loyalty mate,we have had the discussion previously).

And yes,I do think we are capable of being top six in 'this' championship year (not necessarily last year's) which is a weak one.

If cocu was to deploy our strikers effectively we wouldnt have to totally rely on our midfielders to get the goals as per last year 

Mount and Wilson both had barren patches last year don't forget,mount being dropped for several games as I recall.

 

The only game Mount missed last season that wasn't through injury was the home Southampton cup game

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, JfR said:

The only game Mount missed last season that wasn't through injury was the home Southampton cup game

#or wilson (one of them anyways)

[GB SPORTS]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I thought Wassall should have got the job in the summer, so we could hit the ground running.

At the end of the day, people are talking about Cocu being a long term appointment, implementing youth, and having a vision.

Why couldn't the man who has worked in English football all of his career, knows the club inside out, and has actually overseen the development of our Academy achieve exactly that?

Does Wassall want the job?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

Does Wassall want the job?

Would wassell want the hassle?

I doubt cocus going anywhere unless our home form collapses too (which isn't inconceivable) but this slump and lack of improvement won't have gone unnoticed by Mel and his forthcoming investors,so cocu has to turn this around sharpish for his own good.