Best managerial achievement

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

Assuming we make no more signings, if we were to be promoted has there been a better managerial achievement in Derby's history or British professional football? 

Points to consider for cocu:

Play off hangover (and less time to prepare) 

Losing first team players and key loan signings

Lampards achievements with the squad he had were lauded and impressive enough for Chelsea to take notice

Very short pre season and manager appointed after pre season had began

The quality in the division this season (Fulham in particular) 

 

Not getting over excited, more are weliterally hoping for a biblical miracle this season. Is with an u18 national winners an expectation for a number of players to be able to play in the chamionship and achieve results realistic?

 

 

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

Ranieri, clough? 

[Day]

I don't think it would even rank in the top 100 achievements in English football if he took us up, he hasn't walked into a Bolton type situation with just 7 players to work with and a -12 point deduction. 

Maybe sit in the shade for a bit, it is hot out there ?

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

It's incredibly rare though to make any impact in the modern game over the length of a season without bringing a few players in to implement a change and fill gaps that a team had the previous year where they were short. 

If Bolton managed it, now that would be incredible but has that ever been done in the modern era?

We came up short last season with the loan players etc. Without more either lampard truly failed, there's a fluke in that the academy players who make the difference just happen to be ready for this year or he will have achieved something massively special

[Anon]

Just now, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

If Bolton managed it, now that would be incredible but has that ever been done in the modern era?

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. He saved them from relegation after taking over half way through the season with the team 10 points adrift of safety, and then won promotion the next season, despite still being under a transfer embargo.

[SaintRam]

8 minutes ago, David said:

I don't think it would even rank in the top 100 achievements in English football if he took us up, he hasn't walked into a Bolton type situation with just 7 players to work with and a -12 point deduction. 

Maybe sit in the shade for a bit, it is hot out there ?

Agree. Getting promoted this season, assuming no mass influx of players, at most would be eye opening to other clubs; as it would demonstrate the value of a well-invested academy (as I assume in that scenario academy players would fire us to success)! But it would be seen as someone *finally* getting Derby promoted, not some monstrous achievement.

I doubt it would be even as impressive as Sheff Utd getting promoted last season.

 

Besides, I find the sheer concept of trying to rank "achievements in English football"  absurd ?; there's got to be a pool of what, thousands? 

Probably some bloke from Bath getting 10 promotions in a row right at the bottom of the football pyramid that really deserves the place. 

 

 

[Day]

1 minute ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

It's incredibly rare though to make any impact in the modern game over the length of a season without bringing a few players in to implement a change and fill gaps that a team had the previous year where they were short. 

If Bolton managed it, now that would be incredible but has that ever been done in the modern era?

We came up short last season with the loan players etc. Without more either lampard truly failed, there's a fluke in that the academy players who make the difference just happen to be ready for this year or he will have achieved something massively special

Spurs made it to the Champions League final last year without making a single signing, given the spending powers of the big clubs I would argue that would be a far greater achievement.

Wouldn't call it a fluke either if an academy players stepped up and filled the gaps, no guarantees bringing in any player will have an impact, it's possible Cocu has seen something in these players and feels he can work with them. 

Would it be any different say if we took a Louie Sibley from Chelsea on loan?

[Coneheadjohn]

Chris Wilder?2 promotions in three seasons with the club in turmoil behind the scenes?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

19 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Chris Wilder?2 promotions in three seasons with the club in turmoil behind the scenes?

I know you're a closet Sheffield (can't remember which now) fan but you don't have to keep reminding us. Couldn't believe how broad your Yorkshire accent was when I met you.

[Coneheadjohn]

14 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I know you're a closet Sheffield (can't remember which now) fan but you don't have to keep reminding us. Couldn't believe how broad your Yorkshire accent was when I met you.

What’s tha taking about thee?

My accent might be Yorkshire but my hearts in Derby.

@Mrs Cone‘s accent is ridiculous.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

It would be some achievement.

Assuming we don't have 3 or 4 wonderkids who step up and replace Mount/Tomori/Wilson we are far weaker than last season, forget the near 30 goals they scored between them, their sheer quality alone cannot be replaced (I feel) within our academy.

2 of our potential star players (Holmes and Marriott) struggle to stay fit at the minute and any new players we do sign are going to need a good few weeks to get up to speed.

I feel a relegation battle is more likely than a top 6 push at the minute (please bookmark that and ridicule me when we walk the league please).

Make no mistake I honestly think Cocu is a great appointment by Derby, but it will count for nothing if we don't back him this window, in my opinion.

 

[Steve How Hard?]

How we managed to extort £2million from Stoke for Rowett was some achievement. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

13 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

How we managed to extort £2million from Stoke for Rowett was some achievement. 

And then get Lampard on a free, sell him for 4 odd million and get Cocu on a free.

Maybe Mel has given up on signing players and decided to trade in the managers markets?

If we keep trading up we will end up with Pep Guardiola and 50 million in the bank in 5 years.

[Maestro]

11 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

And then get Lampard on a free, sell him for 4 odd million and get Cocu on a free.

Maybe Mel has given up on signing players and decided to trade in the managers markets?

If we keep trading up we will end up with Pep Guardiola and 50 million in the bank in 5 years.

It's the Footballing equivalent to the Craigslist "One Red Paperclip".

Link for those who don't get the reference

[DontTrustTheDevilInside]

1 hour ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Chris Wilder?2 promotions in three seasons with the club in turmoil behind the scenes?

Think its been done before a few times, Norwich, Southampton etc the momentum effect of clubs far bigger in League 1 is proven. The first promotion if they failed would be an embarrassment (as most Sheff Utd fans were by their multiple attempts to get out of League 1). The Bournemouth shout is a much stronger one as they are a far smaller club with a smaller fan base coming from lower in the football pyramid.

1 hour ago, David said:

Spurs made it to the Champions League final last year without making a single signing, given the spending powers of the big clubs I would argue that would be a far greater achievement.

Wouldn't call it a fluke either if an academy players stepped up and filled the gaps, no guarantees bringing in any player will have an impact, it's possible Cocu has seen something in these players and feels he can work with them. 

Would it be any different say if we took a Louie Sibley from Chelsea on loan?

Debatable yes, but Tottenham didn't lose players in the same way (star players and quantity). With their squad at the time all hovering around the low to mid 20s they were all stepping closer to their prime and were they likely to dramatically improve any position. I looked at their side and thought that myself. Their team was of a consistent standard all the way through with depth. Short of signing a Ronaldo/Messi (which is unrealistic) who would they sign which would guarantee to have a bigger impact than the negative impact of disrupting a settled team.

Not to mention Pochettino had built for a number of seasons to get to that position not walked in 2 days after preseason started to a new club

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, David said:

I don't think it would even rank in the top 100 achievements in English football if he took us up, he hasn't walked into a Bolton type situation with just 7 players to work with and a -12 point deduction. 

Maybe sit in the shade for a bit, it is hot out there ?

Are there a 100 managers that have walked into such situation?

[Day]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Are there a 100 managers that have walked into such situation?

Wasn't the point I was making, top 100 achievements could anything, be it Arsenal's Invincibles, Leicester winning the Premier League title.

Cocu has not walked into a club requiring a complete rebuild like Bolton, to suggest it could be possibly one of the biggest achievements in English football if we make no more signings and go up is a little mind boggling.

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Agree. Getting promoted this season, assuming no mass influx of players, at most would be eye opening to other clubs; as it would demonstrate the value of a well-invested academy (as I assume in that scenario academy players would fire us to success)! But it would be seen as someone *finally* getting Derby promoted, not some monstrous achievement.

I doubt it would be even as impressive as Sheff Utd getting promoted last season.

 

Besides, I find the sheer concept of trying to rank "achievements in English football"  absurd ?; there's got to be a pool of what, thousands? 

Probably some bloke from Bath getting 10 promotions in a row right at the bottom of the football pyramid that really deserves the place. 

 

 

He deserves a bath after achieving that!

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said:

Assuming we make no more signings, if we were to be promoted has there been a better managerial achievement in Derby's history or British professional football? 

 

Wow!  That's one hell of a hypothetical question!

How about:

Assuming we sign a £30m striker this window, and they go on to not only score 24 league goals ensuring our automatic promotion, but also scores an FA Cup final hatrick to secure the double, would you consider him (or her!) our best ever signing?

Is it hot out there or something? Or is the closed season beginning to drag on a little now?
Just hang in there... not long to kick off now! 

[Tamworthram]

50 minutes ago, David said:

Wasn't the point I was making, top 100 achievements could anything, be it Arsenal's Invincibles, Leicester winning the Premier League title.

Cocu has not walked into a club requiring a complete rebuild like Bolton, to suggest it could be possibly one of the biggest achievements in English football if we make no more signings and go up is a little mind boggling.

Fair enough and I agree the original suggestion is a little over the top. I just wondered why you singled out that scenario almost as if it is the benchmark.