Angry Ram Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Yes. The woman my wife used to be carer for said she voted leave because the NHS needs saving. She says now that she feels she voted for a lie. Every Brexit supporting leading figure has distanced themselves from that bus, saying it wasn't ever a promise. The country is apparently already £500m per week worse off. So we've spent £500m to save £350m. How do we have less money and spend more on the NHS? It’s 500 mil per week because people like you won’t let it go. You might have missed this little point..WE HAVE NOT LEFT YET. Still, keep blaming everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The country is apparently already £500m per week worse off. So we've spent £500m to save £350m. How do we have less money and spend more on the NHS? Its apparently 175 million a week actually. But that's because people and politicians cannot respect a majority vote and have delayed the process by any means they can. But keep on blaming Leave voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, GboroRam said: How do we have less money and spend more on the NHS? Ask Corbyn. He's got loads of money to spend. In the trillions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 33 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Yes. The woman my wife used to be carer for said she voted leave because the NHS needs saving. She says now that she feels she voted for a lie. Every Brexit supporting leading figure has distanced themselves from that bus, saying it wasn't ever a promise. Well that's that then, she would definitely have swung the vote. A friend of my aunties dog walker vote Remain because she was worries about all of the redundancies that were going to happen the day after a vote for Brexit, so that's balanced that one out. There was never a promise on a side of the bus. If you read it as a promise to give the NHS then you are as thick as all of these anonymous people that supposedly voted based on this 'promise'. The country is apparently already £500m per week worse off. So we've spent £500m to save £350m. How do we have less money and spend more on the NHS? We are £500m worse off due to the uncertainty caused by these ridiculous delaying tactics. Come back to us in a few years after Brexit and tell us we are £500m a week worse off and then we will have to back down and admit we were blatantly wrong, but blaming today's financial position on Brexit is disingenuous, no chance of Remain voters admitting that though, its easier to blame it on something that hasn't even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Everything? The treaty as a whole? So you're opposed to enshrining certain political, social, and economic rights for both European Union citizens and residents, into EU law? You're opposed to a charter of fundamental rights being legally binding? You're opposed to mutual solidarity between members attacked by terrorists? You're opposed to expanding the use of qualified majority voting? Or are you opposed to the mandatory introduction of the Euro and the loss of the UK veto? Yes I am opposed to every sentence of it and what it represents. I do not want anything to do with a European political union. I mean some of them things you've listed are just laughable. Do we have to pay into the European Union to display mutual solidarity between members attacked by terrorists? ? I'm not going to cherry pick good bits of it because to accept them means accepting all of the bad bits that go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: It’s 500 mil per week because people like you won’t let it go. You might have missed this little point..WE HAVE NOT LEFT YET. Still, keep blaming everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Yes I am opposed to every sentence of it and what it represents. I do not want anything to do with a European political union. I mean some of them things you've listed are just laughable. Do we have to pay into the European Union to display mutual solidarity between members attacked by terrorists? ? I'm not going to cherry pick good bits of it because to accept them means accepting all of the bad bits that go with it. It's as though the greatest and oldest democratic nation on Earth can't give basic rights and show signs of solidarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 3 hours ago, TimRam said: This is a good post and the reason I voted leave. Having so many countries in a "one size fits all" situation (with more set to join no doubt) is asking for trouble. We already had a taste with Ireland and Greece needing financial bailouts. It's really just a vanity project for a certain country to be in charge over others. That's an entirely unreasonable and unfounded accusation in my view. I'd say quite a significant proportion of Leave voters share it however, at least to some extent. By all means be against European integration and hold to the model of sovereign nation states doing their own thing. That's up to you, but why suggest machiavellian motives to those who take the view that European integration is a sensible and natural step in our globalized world. The notion that the EU is in fact little more than Germany's latest evil scheme to control Europe is an extreme one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yes I am opposed to every sentence of it and what it represents. I do not want anything to do with a European political union. I mean some of them things you've listed are just laughable. Do we have to pay into the European Union to display mutual solidarity between members attacked by terrorists? ? I'm not going to cherry pick good bits of it because to accept them means accepting all of the bad bits that go with it. I can't see what's wrong with formalising it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Highgate said: That's an entirely unreasonable and unfounded accusation in my view. I'd say quite a significant proportion of Leave voters share it however, at least to some extent. By all means be against European integration and hold to the model of sovereign nation states doing their own thing. That's up to you, but why suggest machiavellian motives to those who take the view that European integration is a sensible and natural step in our globalized world. The notion that the EU is in fact little more than Germany's latest evil scheme to control Europe is an extreme one. Some people can't stop fighting a war that ended over 70 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Highgate said: That's an entirely unreasonable and unfounded accusation in my view. I'd say quite a significant proportion of Leave voters share it however, at least to some extent. By all means be against European integration and hold to the model of sovereign nation states doing their own thing. That's up to you, but why suggest machiavellian motives to those who take the view that European integration is a sensible and natural step in our globalized world. The notion that the EU is in fact little more than Germany's latest evil scheme to control Europe is an extreme one. Whilst principle might be behind a large amount of it, to say Germany are not driven by self interest to the detriment of other member states would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I can't see what's wrong with formalising it. Because things like that should be givens and should not require us to sign up to other things that do not benefit us. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Norman said: Whilst principle might be behind a large amount of it, to say Germany are not driven by self interest to the detriment of other member states would be wrong. Every nation is driven by self interest. And it could be argued that self interest can often/usually be to the detriment of others. That's hardly the same thing as suggesting Germany is trying to control Europe again by different means. How much is fear of Germany informing the thoughts and decisions of the Leave voter I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Highgate said: Every nation is driven by self interest. And it could be argued that self interest can often/usually be to the detriment of others. That's hardly the same thing as suggesting Germany is trying to control Europe again by different means. How much is fear of Germany informing the thoughts and decisions of the Leave voter I wonder? Economically they want to. So what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 The more I read this thread the more I despise the left and it’s self righteous supporters. It’s everybody else’s fault, everything is unfair. We should distribute everyone’s wealth, yet they don’t distribute theirs. Look at you doing well, give it all to me. I’ll just sit here and wait for that billionaire to share his hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, Norman said: Whilst principle might be behind a large amount of it Are you supporting brexit for the benefit of the EU 27? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Are you supporting brexit for the benefit of the EU 27? No, for the benefit of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: The more I read this thread the more I despise the left and it’s self righteous supporters. It’s everybody else’s fault, everything is unfair. We should distribute everyone’s wealth, yet they don’t distribute theirs. Look at you doing well, give it all to me. I’ll just sit here and wait for that billionaire to share his hard work. Well that's a positive contribution! Fair and balanced too I'd say.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Norman said: It's as though the greatest and oldest democratic nation on Earth can't give basic rights and show signs of solidarity. Not sure about you but I will be eternally grateful to countries like Luxembourg for showing us the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 33 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Some people can't stop fighting a war that ended over 70 years ago. Some people cant stop fighting a Referendum that was decided 3 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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