GboroRam Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Van Gritters said: Joking apart do you feel your vote counts? Do you tactically vote or do you genuinely vote for the person you want to represent you? I lived in an area where Labour won every time. I still voted for who I wanted even though he had no chance. That’s our system though we had a chance to change it but decided not to. If Labour are running I will 99% vote for them. I feel as a member of the working class I have nobody else fighting for my corner. The lib dems and tories are very similar in my eyes. Labour will likely not be elected, they may even lose their deposit here. But I will keep the faith in my party. If everyone turns up and votes, maybe Labour could turn things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: They voted for "THE EASIEST DEAL EVER" Simply because the EU always give in at the last minute, never agree on anything, the germans will want to sell their cars, the french their wines etc... just got to be a bit more patient....that's all Is this the same EUs whose withdrawal agreement could not be re-opened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I have no need to vote in the general election, I will rely on the good people of Hastings & Rye, Cheltenham and Workington to decide matters for me. By default they will also decide Brexit for me (a matter on which I thought my vote did actually count). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, GboroRam said: They knew what they were voting for but not what would happen? Yep, it really isnt that hard to understand. Everyone knew they were voting to no longer be a member of the European Union. Still with me? They did not know if revoking membership would be done with an agreement or without an agreement. It was impossible to know this at the time. Still not hard to follow up to this point surely? Even if we leave without a deal, does not mean a future deal will not be reached, we all know it's in the best interest of both parties and no deal has probably only been left on the table as an incentive to try and overturn the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Just reading an article, apparently the top 1% (which always seems to be the magic number) of earners, earn 14% of the nations income but shoulder 28% of the nations income tax burden. And people think that these are the people we should be targeting for tax increases! 43% of adults pay no income tax at all, yet the Conservatives are the government are the ones that target the poor apparently. I struggle to understand peoples logic sometimes. Some interesting reading about tax here. Whatever your political affiliations its a really well researched website with facts and figures to back up its research. https://www.taxjustice.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: If Labour are running I will 99% vote for them. I feel as a member of the working class I have nobody else fighting for my corner. The lib dems and tories are very similar in my eyes. Labour will likely not be elected, they may even lose their deposit here. But I will keep the faith in my party. If everyone turns up and votes, maybe Labour could turn things around. I’m a member of the working class too but don’t look at it in the same way I believe that people have the opportunity if they take it. I don’t have time for people who think the world owes them a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Surely it's time for another referendum with the choices of... A) Brexit Party style Brexit aka No Deal B) ERG style Brexit aka No Deal, but with some provisions to offer protection to the business interests of those in the ERG C) Johnson's deal Brexit D) May's deal Brexit E) Soft Brexit (customs union and free movement) F) Remain Winner takes all. I think we'd all agree this is the only way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Some interesting reading about tax here. Whatever your political affiliations its a really well researched website with facts and figures to back up its research. https://www.taxjustice.net Can you put a few highlights up please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Is this the same EUs whose withdrawal agreement could not be re-opened? That's the one, the same one who has to negotiate with a slightly erratic bunch to put it mildly with no sketch of a plan on how to deliver on their grand plan, 3 and half years on. and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Change the word 'many' for 'some' and it becomes a fact. All the people who voted leave in the referendum are all happy to leave with Johnson's deal. Fact, yes or no. The fact is some people who voted leave thought we were going to leave with a Canada type leave, some with a Canada++, some with a Norway type leave, some even wanted to leave with no deal. These are only my own experiences of what some people wanted. But I know for a fact that some of my acquaintances have had similar experiences. Maybe the fact that some people wanted or expected a different kind of a leave deal to what some other people wanted. Is probably why our MPs have been unable agree to the sort of deal the country wants to actually leave with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: I don’t have time for people who think the world owes them a living. Here, here. I was in London today and the place is crawling with homeless people. Why don't they just get a job! They all think the world owes them a living. Thank god these years of Tory austerity have sent so many people onto the streets, rather than them all living the life of luxury at the expense of us taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: I’m a member of the working class too but don’t look at it in the same way I believe that people have the opportunity if they take it. I don’t have time for people who think the world owes them a living. People have only had the opportunity because of labour policies of education, NHS, affordable housing and the vote. Before all those there were no opportunities for ordinary people. The Tories did not give us any of those, our ancestors had to fight for them, risking their lives, deportation, imprisonment and unbelievable hardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: Can you put a few highlights up please. Its worth having a proper read when you have time mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: People have only had the opportunity because of labour policies of education, NHS, affordable housing and the vote. Before all those there were no opportunities for ordinary people. The Tories did not give us any of those, our ancestors had to fight for them, risking their lives, deportation, imprisonment and unbelievable hardship. In your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: In your opinion. The thing is time has moved on. Things change due to public opinion. Wars change things and all sorts of different circumstances change things. It’s not all down to the ‘holly Labour party’. Take your rose tinted sun glasses off. People move with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, 1of4 said: All the people who voted leave in the referendum are all happy to leave with Johnson's deal. Fact, yes or no. The fact is some people who voted leave thought we were going to leave with a Canada type leave, some with a Canada++, some with a Norway type leave, some even wanted to leave with no deal. These are only my own experiences of what some people wanted. But I know for a fact that some of my acquaintances have had similar experiences. Maybe the fact that some people wanted or expected a different kind of a leave deal to what some other people wanted. Is probably why our MPs have been unable agree to the sort of deal the country wants to actually leave with. I can only speak for myself but would imagine that no, not everyone that voted Leave are happy to leave with Johnson's deal. Would everyone that voted Remain be happy to be in the EU with and EU army? Would they be happy to stay with our veto removed? Would they be happy to stay in the EU with yet more countries joining that contribute less than they take out? Would they be happy to stay in and made to join the Euro? Not saying any of the above would happen but they are all possibilities of things that could happen prior to us being given a chance to have another Referendum. Lots of unknowns on both sides of the vote. People were asked to vote a moment in time and by quite a sizeable majority chose they no longer wanted to be members of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: That's the one, the same one who has to negotiate with a slightly erratic bunch to put it mildly with no sketch of a plan on how to deliver on their grand plan, 3 and half years on. and counting... Plans have been put forward twice but blocked by politicians who dont want to leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Nope, I maintain it would be easy to implement if there weren't so many politicians doing everything in their power to block it. That's how parliament works. Duh Bringing back hanging would be "easy to implement" - if it wasn't for those pesky MPs voting against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Plans have been put forward twice but blocked by politicians who dont want to leave the EU That's not 100% true is it? SOME politicians don't want to leave the EU, but plenty of those blocking it have done so because they want to leave the EU but don't like the deal on offer Again - that's how parliament works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: That's how parliament works. Duh Bringing back hanging would be "easy to implement" - if it wasn't for those pesky MPs voting against it I dont remember many manifestos promising to bring back hanging to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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