Away Days

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, eddie said:

I've never understood this need for people to get drunk in order to 'enjoy themselves'. It seems to be a uniquely British trait - I have never witnessed the type of behaviour that seems commonplace in any British city every Friday or Saturday night anywhere in Belgium, Holland, Germany or pretty well anywhere else - unless it involved British people, of course.

I note your point on the Europeans and that is certainly true. But rather than look at that restraint as being the way forward, or a quality to be admired, we pass it off as being soft, or lacking in the balls department, something to be ridiculed. It's ingrained isn't it?

He who can drink the most or fight the most, or **** the most is the most worthy of being called a man. Maybe it's just a consequence of being a small island - we're bred with a collective sense of needing to prove we pack more of a punch than our size would indicate.

I don't know what I put it down to, I mean you can go all the way back to the Victorians - supposedly the most buttoned up, stuffed shirted, law and order mad period of English society. Yet where does the word hooligan come from? Irish family responsible for causing a few tear ups in South London of an August bank holiday at the tail end of the 1800's.

I'm guilty of drinking for the sake of it with the lads (a lot less so now, because once you realise what you're doing, it becomes a lot less appealing) and I guess my simple answer is because it's what you do as a working class boy with nothing else to do on a Friday and Saturday night and Sunday afternoon. Or nothing else presented to you as an acceptable alternative. It's what my mates did and it's what the men in my family have done for at least 50 years. Do you ever really know why you do what you do? You fall into it.

Fortunately I've got at least one brain cell that occasionally works and I was too lightweight to do too much damage, so I think I was able to do it without ever really harming anyone but myself, but until you understand that this isn't the best way to spend your wages, or spend your nights, you just keep on doing it, because it's all you know.

I think positive male role models, better standards of living, better education, change to the culture of needing to be the biggest, hardest bloke in the pub/ground/town/city and more opportunities for men in particular to have an outlet for their frustrations in a more positive/less destructive way are the ways out of it, because at it's heart is a need to escape from whatever unhappy situation it is that person finds themselves in.

[cstand]

3 hours ago, eddie said:

I've never understood this need for people to get drunk in order to 'enjoy themselves'. It seems to be a uniquely British trait - I have never witnessed the type of behaviour that seems commonplace in any British city every Friday or Saturday night anywhere in Belgium, Holland, Germany or pretty well anywhere else - unless it involved British people, of course.

I was in Antwerp enjoying a bolekke late at night during Euro 2000 when all hell broke loose fighting between the Turk's and loads of drunken Belgium fans. They had to bring in the water cannons to try and stop the trouble,  unfortunately I was locked in a bar and had to sample the rest of the Belgium beers they had on offer. 

Been to Munich beerfestival  years ago stopped at a camp site full of drunken folk from New Zealand and Australia constantly giving anti British drivel and pommy bashing all the time. They never stopped drinking all weekend. 

Irish folk getting even more drunk in a Derby pub and singing anti British songs after they have been drinking all day in London. 

So it's not just the Brit's that get worse for wear and are ignorant.

 

[eddie]

28 minutes ago, cstand said:

I was in Antwerp enjoying a bolekke late at night during Euro 2000 when all hell broke loose fighting between the Turk's and loads of drunken Belgium fans. They had to bring in the water cannons to try and stop the trouble,  unfortunately I was locked in a bar and had to sample the rest of the Belgium beers they had on offer. 

Been to Munich beerfestival  years ago stopped at a camp site full of drunken folk from New Zealand and Australia constantly giving anti British drivel and pommy bashing all the time. They never stopped drinking all weekend. 

Irish folk getting even more drunk in a Derby pub and singing anti British songs after they have been drinking all day in London. 

So it's not just the Brit's that get worse for wear and are ignorant.

 

No, but the ones you have quoted are exceptions.

[Boycie]

5 hours ago, eddie said:

I've never understood this need for people to get drunk in order to 'enjoy themselves'. It seems to be a uniquely British trait - I have never witnessed the type of behaviour that seems commonplace in any British city every Friday or Saturday night anywhere in Belgium, Holland, Germany or pretty well anywhere else - unless it involved British people, of course.

Eddie, whilst you say you’ve never witnessed it, you can’t surely say it never happens?

Have you never done anything whilst drunk in your younger days that you look back on now and regret?

[rammieib]

7 hours ago, Andicis said:

I mean it's pretty simple, some idiots drank too much and acted like dheads. Not sure you can stop stuff like that happening though.

Yeah you can - ban all idiots who misbehave at away games. Have Derby staff/stewards in the away end. Take pictures of offending people etc

[eddie]

1 minute ago, Boycie said:

Eddie, whilst you say you’ve never witnessed it, you can’t surely say it never happens?

Have you never done anything whilst drunk in your younger days that you look back on now and regret?

Of course I can't say it never happens. The difference is that getting rolling drunk on a regular basis appears to be a way of life for an awful lot of people in this country (some I know very well, and it's not just kids - people of my age too), and it's no different now to what it was like 50 years ago.

I got drunk at a works leaving do (my own) in 1985. That was probably the only time I was ever outrageously drunk apart from my own stag night a decade before. I lived in a pub for 10 years and worked in one for 20, and perhaps cleaning up vomit and piss every night, plus seeing the effect it has on people who are long-term drunks, teaches you a little respect for the booze.

[Boycie]

I think a few Derby stewards do travel don’t they?

[Boycie]

1 minute ago, eddie said:

Of course I can't say it never happens. The difference is that getting rolling drunk on a regular basis appears to be a way of life for an awful lot of people in this country (some I know very well, and it's not just kids - people of my age too), and it's no different now to what it was like 50 years ago.

I got drunk at a works leaving do (my own) in 1985. That was probably the only time I was ever outrageously drunk apart from my own stag night a decade before. I lived in a pub for 10 years and worked in one for 20, and perhaps cleaning up vomit and piss every night, plus seeing the effect it has on people who are long-term drunks, teaches you a little respect for the booze.

I know what you mean, Brits are stereotyped.

[rammieib]

11 hours ago, therams69 said:

We all like a drink Angie ;-)

Very good point though about the drinking. Football is the only sporting event or any event for that matter that you cannot legally drink on a minibus / coach etc travelling to a game so as you say you are correct that fans feel pressure to quickly drink as opposed to it being steady throughout the day. Obviously this is different in places such as Germany where you are encouraged to drink in the stands. No issues there might I add. Not sure it would work in England as beer would get chucked everywhere when we scored. And before we begin slating fans, it wasn't so long ago that the BBC were showing and highlighting clips of fans doing it in pubs in England at the world cup. Put it out there and fans will copy it. Within the right conditions its quite enjoyable being part of it but not everyone wants it and this is where another problem lies.

I can't think of any condition where beer going all over me is enjoyable. I am curious to know though whether you think drinking on coaches would see drink spread out and this behaviour slightly improved or more alcohol consumed and thus behaviour getting worse?

On Saturday, about three or four 'kids' (I had them down as 16-18) arrived late, walked half way up to concourse, had tried to sneak beer in, got caught by steward, still tried to hide it, stood on stairs (SS3) and wouldn't move. It was truly pathetic behaviour, they thought they were being cool, and I wish the police had come up and moved them away. The youth of today is so sad. 

[rammieib]

6 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I think a few Derby stewards do travel don’t they?

I actually think they do but I'm not sure what role they play. 

[Boycie]

1 minute ago, rammieib said:

I actually think they do but I'm not sure what role they play. 

Maybe it’s to steward the away coaches getting off and on?

[therams69]

12 hours ago, rammieib said:

I can't think of any condition where beer going all over me is enjoyable. I am curious to know though whether you think drinking on coaches would see drink spread out and this behaviour slightly improved or more alcohol consumed and thus behaviour getting worse?

On Saturday, about three or four 'kids' (I had them down as 16-18) arrived late, walked half way up to concourse, had tried to sneak beer in, got caught by steward, still tried to hide it, stood on stairs (SS3) and wouldn't move. It was truly pathetic behaviour, they thought they were being cool, and I wish the police had come up and moved them away. The youth of today is so sad. 

I think being allowed to consume alcohol on coaches would bring in a more relaxed behaviour. Treat fans like louts and more than likely they will act like louts. Many football police up and down the country are now attempting this approach with much more liaison between fans pre match as well. 

An example of this were Leeds fans at Millwall last weekend. Policed different and no trouble reported. 

As I said many police forces believe the drinking on a coach law is outdated and needs looking at. Being allowed to would avoid the " I need to drink as much as I can" as soon as they enter the stadium or town centre. 

For me it's worth a try. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Away days are my favourite pastime. I absolutely love the routine of going down to the pub in the morning and having a few cans on the minibus with all the away day regulars. I've been doing this for the last few seasons (since I was about 16) and haven't noticed things getting any worse in that time. I always go in my Derby shirt and have never been so much as questioned for it - the vast majority of fans aren't crazy enough to dislike you for simply supporting a different club.

I wasn't able to make Rotherham on Saturday but obviously both the chair-throwing incident and what happened to @coneheadjohn were completely unacceptable, and both the chair thrower and the steward should be dealt with accordingly. However, these things aren't exactly regular occurrences and I really don't believe they characterise the behaviour of most stewards or fans - sober or not.

I'm personally guilty of feeling like I have to be drunk to enjoy myself (I'm currently drinking my way through Freshers week), and despite Derby being an obsession for me, this need to drink applies to away games too. Not having a drink on the bus, at the pub or in the ground would just feel wrong to me, and I know that's an unhealthy mindset. I don't have an aggressive bone in my body, yet I absolutely love giving it to the away fans (as long as there are barriers between us!) - be it gesturing, swearing or leering in a way that I know @angieram (who is someone I hugely respect on this forum) would categorically disapprove of. I know it's not to everyone's taste, but I feel like the actions I've just described are still within the vicinity of what could be described as 'banter' between fans. That would probably change if there was nothing to separate us, but, apart from when there are coin-throwing Forest fans above you, there's no real danger of it breaking out into violence.

Obviously I wasn't around to see it, but the hooligan era of the 1980s sounds far worse than a few drunk lads calling opposition players a 'See You Next Tuesday'. Perhaps there should be designated zones for those who feel uncomfortable around these people, as I completely respect the fact that it can come across as intimidating (though I've never understood why people are offended by swearing), but I can't help but feel that complaints about away days are slightly overblown. 

I guess I've just rambled without really coming to a conclusion, but I thought I would give my two cents on a hobby that I'm extremely passionate about.

[Coneheadjohn]

7 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Away days are my favourite pastime. I absolutely love the routine of going down to the pub in the morning and having a few cans on the minibus with all the away day regulars. I've been doing this for the last few seasons (since I was about 16) and haven't noticed things getting any worse in that time. I always go in my Derby shirt and have never been so much as questioned for it - the vast majority of fans aren't crazy enough to dislike you for simply supporting a different club.

I wasn't able to make Rotherham on Saturday but obviously both the chair-throwing incident and what happened to @coneheadjohn were completely unacceptable, and both the chair thrower and the steward should be dealt with accordingly. However, these things aren't exactly regular occurrences and I really don't believe they characterise the behaviour of most stewards or fans - sober or not.

I'm personally guilty of feeling like I have to be drunk to enjoy myself (I'm currently drinking my way through Freshers week), and despite Derby being an obsession for me, this need to drink applies to away games too. Not having a drink on the bus, at the pub or in the ground would just feel wrong to me, and I know that's an unhealthy mindset. I don't have an aggressive bone in my body, yet I absolutely love giving it to the away fans (as long as there are barriers between us!) - be it gesturing, swearing or leering in a way that I know @angieram (who is someone I hugely respect on this forum) would categorically disapprove of. I know it's not to everyone's taste, but I feel like the actions I've just described are still within the vicinity of what could be described as 'banter' between fans. That would probably change if there was nothing to separate us, but, apart from when there are coin-throwing Forest fans above you, there's no real danger of it breaking out into violence.

Obviously I wasn't around to see it, but the hooligan era of the 1980s sounds far worse than a few drunk lads calling opposition players a 'See You Next Tuesday'. Perhaps there should be designated zones for those who feel uncomfortable around these people, as I completely respect the fact that it can come across as intimidating (though I've never understood why people are offended by swearing), but I can't help but feel that complaints about away days are slightly overblown. 

I guess I've just rambled without really coming to a conclusion, but I thought I would give my two cents on a hobby that I'm extremely passionate about.

You would have gone well in the eighties mate?

[bcnram]

7 hours ago, therams69 said:

I think being allowed to consume alcohol on coaches would bring in a more relaxed behaviour. Treat fans like louts and more than likely they will act like louts. Many football police up and down the country are now attempting this approach with much more liaison between fans pre match as well. 

An example of this were Leeds fans at Millwall last weekend. Policed different and no trouble reported. 

As I said many police forces believe the drinking on a coach law is outdated and needs looking at. Being allowed to would avoid the " I need to drink as much as I can" as soon as they enter the stadium or town centre. 

For me it's worth a try. 

For me that sort of attitude is the very reason why bans on alcohol on coaches should be in place. Fans are being treated like louts because historically they have behaved like louts.

[VulcanRam]

5 minutes ago, bcnram said:

For me that sort of attitude is the very reason why bans on alcohol on coaches should be in place. Fans are being treated like louts because historically they have behaved like louts.

 

7 hours ago, therams69 said:

I think being allowed to consume alcohol on coaches would bring in a more relaxed behaviour. Treat fans like louts and more than likely they will act like louts. Many football police up and down the country are now attempting this approach with much more liaison between fans pre match as well. 

An example of this were Leeds fans at Millwall last weekend. Policed different and no trouble reported. 

As I said many police forces believe the drinking on a coach law is outdated and needs looking at. Being allowed to would avoid the " I need to drink as much as I can" as soon as they enter the stadium or town centre. 

For me it's worth a try. 

Chicken, meet egg.

[Van der MoodHoover]

16 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Away days are my favourite pastime. I absolutely love the routine of going down to the pub in the morning and having a few cans on the minibus with all the away day regulars. I've been doing this for the last few seasons (since I was about 16) and haven't noticed things getting any worse in that time. I always go in my Derby shirt and have never been so much as questioned for it - the vast majority of fans aren't crazy enough to dislike you for simply supporting a different club.

I wasn't able to make Rotherham on Saturday but obviously both the chair-throwing incident and what happened to @coneheadjohn were completely unacceptable, and both the chair thrower and the steward should be dealt with accordingly. However, these things aren't exactly regular occurrences and I really don't believe they characterise the behaviour of most stewards or fans - sober or not.

I'm personally guilty of feeling like I have to be drunk to enjoy myself (I'm currently drinking my way through Freshers week), and despite Derby being an obsession for me, this need to drink applies to away games too. Not having a drink on the bus, at the pub or in the ground would just feel wrong to me, and I know that's an unhealthy mindset. I don't have an aggressive bone in my body, yet I absolutely love giving it to the away fans (as long as there are barriers between us!) - be it gesturing, swearing or leering in a way that I know @angieram (who is someone I hugely respect on this forum) would categorically disapprove of. I know it's not to everyone's taste, but I feel like the actions I've just described are still within the vicinity of what could be described as 'banter' between fans. That would probably change if there was nothing to separate us, but, apart from when there are coin-throwing Forest fans above you, there's no real danger of it breaking out into violence.

Obviously I wasn't around to see it, but the hooligan era of the 1980s sounds far worse than a few drunk lads calling opposition players a 'See You Next Tuesday'. Perhaps there should be designated zones for those who feel uncomfortable around these people, as I completely respect the fact that it can come across as intimidating (though I've never understood why people are offended by swearing), but I can't help but feel that complaints about away days are slightly overblown. 

I guess I've just rambled without really coming to a conclusion, but I thought I would give my two cents on a hobby that I'm extremely passionate about.

Burton ram - after a few in the pub and then tinnies on the minibus, do you actually get to see ANYTHING of any of the away games.

you sure you’re not just being driven round Burton and dropped off in Alrewas??

[DarkFruitsRam7]

11 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said:

You would have gone well in the eighties mate?

I'm not aggressive at all and I wouldn't go anywhere near a fight. Probably because I would get absolutely battered.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Burton ram - after a few in the pub and then tinnies on the minibus, do you actually get to see ANYTHING of any of the away games.

you sure you’re not just being driven round Burton and dropped off in Alrewas??

The one time I went too far with my drinking at an away day was at Bristol City under Rowett. We arrived late at the game because we spent too long at the pub and I rushed straight to the loo to throw up, missing a Vydra goal in the process. I then half-saw us concede 4 goals in a 4-1 defeat whilst feeling absolutely horrific. Learnt my lesson there.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, BurtonRam7 said:

The one time I went too far with my drinking at an away day was at Bristol City under Rowett. We arrived late at the game because we spent too long at the pub and I rushed straight to the loo to throw up, missing a Vydra goal in the process. I then half-saw us concede 4 goals in a 4-1 defeat whilst feeling absolutely horrific. Learnt my lesson there.

“Rowettball made me physically sick”

Daily Star headline right there mate?