Derby may have to play Wilson (when fit), regardless of form

[Thierry Ennui]

I know there are often whispers of this when loaning from big clubs, but it's interesting to see evidence. Darragh MacAnthony has been vocal about it and Liverpool are named as one of the clubs who heavily monitor their loans:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/sep/06/football-league-loan-deals

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Wilson returns to fitness if two of Jozefzoon, Bennett, Waghorn or Lawrence have seemingly made themselves undroppable.

[RadioactiveWaste]

This came up in another tthread, and I'm sure there is a payment ccost of he doesn't mmake so many aappearances. Don't know the details tthough.

[Boycie]

Who cares?

Hes going to play if he’s fit as he’s a great young talent.

[therealhantsram]

Flat out denied at the fans forum. 

[cannable]

Just now, therealhantsram said:

Flat out denied at the fans forum. 

But reported as a stipulation for any club that takes him on loan before our interest was even reported

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Who cares?

Hes going to play if he’s fit as he’s a great young talent.

Its the idea that the manager can't ppick the best team because of other factors that's unsettling.

A lot depends on the details of the agreement, which we have no chance of fully knowing, but if its sensible like he's expected tto make 12 appearances for the first team with a slight  cost if he makes less, or if its must play when fit cost of tens of thousands eevery time he doesn't.

Sort of clause that the loaning club like to ensure they player gets game time, but could get exploitative if ridiculous tterms start becoming aattached.

I wonder if we include tthese clauses on our loans?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Doesn't get in over Jozerfzoon based on what I have seen of both of them so far.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Thinking aabout this, if we've accounted ffor his loan at the most it would cost including all clauses etc, then regard deductions on that as a bonus, and say to FL and team "its all taken care of" that might be how they can say at forum "no, he doesn't hhave to play"

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

I know there are often whispers of this when loaning from big clubs, but it's interesting to see evidence. Darragh MacAnthony has been vocal about it and Liverpool are named as one of the clubs who heavily monitor their loans:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/sep/06/football-league-loan-deals

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Wilson returns to fitness if two of Jozefzoon, Bennett, Waghorn or Lawrence have seemingly made themselves undroppable.

Reported in the DET the other day that we'd payed Liverpool £1m for the season - That's the kind of money which doesn't usually come with any playing time stipulations 

[RadioactiveWaste]

24 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Reported in the DET the other day that we'd payed Liverpool £1m for the season - That's the kind of money which doesn't usually come with any playing time stipulations 

So at a guess, a lower fee+must play clauses might have been on offer?

[Carl Sagan]

Once fit (as he is now given he's gone off with Wales) I suspect we'll normally see Harry together with Mason Mount as the forward two midfield pairing, with Huddlestone behind them. The wide forward players will be choices from Bennett, Josefzoon, Waghorn and Lawrence.

[Millenniumram]

Think this “have to play” thing is a little bit of an overstatement myself. Would suspect these deals are more like the less the player plays, the more we have to pay for them. There’ll be a basic fee (1 mil for the season was mentioned the other day), then perhaps something like 50k extra whenever he doesn’t play when fit in the league or something like that. Don’t really see much of a problem with that myself, it doesn’t mean teams are forced to play players, but it gives encouragement to do so. Players will only get better playing games at a young age, so I can see why teams do it and I’m sure we do the same. Well have probably had to give Liverpool assurances that he’ll be a regular here, as you would expect for a player of his talent and potential.

Dont think it will be a problem anyway. He didn’t really show it at the start of the season, but he looked one hell of a player in preseason. He should have to fight for his place, but a player of his talent will be starting most games imo once he’s back and fit.

[Marriot Ram99]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Doesn't get in over Jozerfzoon based on what I have seen of both of them so far.

I had said this after the Reading game after also watching him against Wolves and I got a lot of hate for it , but just by watching a bit of Jozefoon play I knew he was our best winger . For me Jozefoon has to start every match he is fit for and it is between Lawrence , Bennet, Waghorn and Wilson for the other place on the wing of course Waghorn can play upfront as well but that would mean either Nuge or Marriot don't make the bench. Wilson so far has looked a bit similar to ince in terms of him being one footed and predictable, he seems a talented player in terms of his close control but he seriously needs to work on his right foot and putting crosses into the box. Also we can 100% not play Lawrence and Wilson in the same team as they are both greedy and always cut insideand look to shoot, Waghorn and jozefoon would be my choice with marriot upfront once he gets sharper,

[Marriot Ram99]

23 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Think this “have to play” thing is a little bit of an overstatement myself. Would suspect these deals are more like the less the player plays, the more we have to pay for them. There’ll be a basic fee (1 mil for the season was mentioned the other day), then perhaps something like 50k extra whenever he doesn’t play when fit in the league or something like that. Don’t really see much of a problem with that myself, it doesn’t mean teams are forced to play players, but it gives encouragement to do so. Players will only get better playing games at a young age, so I can see why teams do it and I’m sure we do the same. Well have probably had to give Liverpool assurances that he’ll be a regular here, as you would expect for a player of his talent and potential.

Dont think it will be a problem anyway. He didn’t really show it at the start of the season, but he looked one hell of a player in preseason. He should have to fight for his place, but a player of his talent will be starting most games imo once he’s back and fit.

he played well against Southampton but in his next 3 games he was poor, he will really have to up his game and play like he did for Hull last season if he is to start.

[Marriot Ram99]

45 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Once fit (as he is now given he's gone off with Wales) I suspect we'll normally see Harry together with Mason Mount as the forward two midfield pairing, with Huddlestone behind them. The wide forward players will be choices from Bennett, Josefzoon, Waghorn and Lawrence.

I sincerely hope not as that will be asking for trouble defensively , I would play Johnson Cm instead of Wilson as we cant have a winger a number 10 and a slow as a snail playmaker as our 3 midfielders if we want to compete in midfield.

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

he played well against Southampton but in his next 3 games he was poor, he will really have to up his game and play like he did for Hull last season if he is to start.

Didn’t really see him have a poor game myself, looked to have everything you want in a winger. Get him in a settled and composed side and you’ll see his quality 

[Carl Sagan]

14 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

I sincerely hope not as that will be asking for trouble defensively , I would play Johnson Cm instead of Wilson as we cant have a winger a number 10 and a slow as a snail playmaker as our 3 midfielders if we want to compete in midfield. 

Time will tell. I think he's strong in the tackle, has great vision and passing ability, a box-to-box engine, scores goals and has a good understanding with Mount. I suspect midfield's his best position; it's also where we're lacking and he can be more influential. 

[Sasha]

1 hour ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

I had said this after the Reading game after also watching him against Wolves and I got a lot of hate for it , but just by watching a bit of Jozefoon play I knew he was our best winger . For me Jozefoon has to start every match he is fit for and it is between Lawrence , Bennet, Waghorn and Wilson for the other place on the wing of course Waghorn can play upfront as well but that would mean either Nuge or Marriot don't make the bench. Wilson so far has looked a bit similar to ince in terms of him being one footed and predictable, he seems a talented player in terms of his close control but he seriously needs to work on his right foot and putting crosses into the box. Also we can 100% not play Lawrence and Wilson in the same team as they are both greedy and always cut insideand look to shoot, Waghorn and jozefoon would be my choice with marriot upfront once he gets sharper,

Absolutely spot on.  FloJo over Lawrence for me every time.  There's a lot more to come from him if given the opportunity

[Ambitious]

He's an excellent player, but we have a lot if quality in wide positions this season. He'll play a lot more often than he doesn't, regardless of whatever fees are attached to the loan.

If he doesn't do the business, which would be a huge surprise considering his form last season at this level, we'll no doubt happily pay the fine rather than hinder the squad. I doubt that will be an issue though. It's very similar to when Ibe was here, McClaren didn't dismiss talk of 'punishment fees' but he just said based on Ibe's quality it wouldn't even be a consideration. It took a couple of months, but he was right. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

Think this “have to play” thing is a little bit of an overstatement myself. Would suspect these deals are more like the less the player plays, the more we have to pay for them. There’ll be a basic fee (1 mil for the season was mentioned the other day), then perhaps something like 50k extra whenever he doesn’t play when fit in the league or something like that. Don’t really see much of a problem with that myself, it doesn’t mean teams are forced to play players, but it gives encouragement to do so. Players will only get better playing games at a young age, so I can see why teams do it and I’m sure we do the same. Well have probably had to give Liverpool assurances that he’ll be a regular here, as you would expect for a player of his talent and potential.

Dont think it will be a problem anyway. He didn’t really show it at the start of the season, but he looked one hell of a player in preseason. He should have to fight for his place, but a player of his talent will be starting most games imo once he’s back and fit.

All depends on the contract details. £50k extra per game he isn't picked is going to influence championship clubs. Suppose your loan player isn't all that, or you have someone better not in the team because of it.
If however, it works out more like end the season wwith a large chunk of loan fee waived or refunded because they've pplayed a lot, its not so bad.