Were Leeds That Good Or ,,,,

[Igorwasking]

I’m going to put this out there - I didn’t think we were too bad.

Leeds were just very good.

[Van der MoodHoover]

I've read that Frank was seething (or fuming) in his post match interview and that Bryson said that the players didn't implement the planned tactics.

Has any light been shed on what the plan was and in what way we were deficient ........and more importantly why? Is it that the coaches made a wrong assumption about how Leeds would play and as soon as they started doing something unexpected we tried to react. Or was it (more worryingly) that our players simply don't get the instructions yet but haven't the wit to admit they don't understand until its too late?

Either way, I cannot imagine Frank simply letting that pass if its true. And jody sounds as though he is the feisty one so it might be triple sessions for our lads this week.....?

[Err ram io]

On 11/08/2018 at 22:11, BramcoteRam84 said:

Wolves 12 months ago is the only equivalent. That’s how good Leeds were today. If they can sustain it they’re the team to beat. But we can and will improve lots on that performance.

Reading the YEP (Yorkshire post website) suggests that Leeds fans and pundits are all shocked as to how good they were in these first two matches. 

We won't come up against Wolves this year - promoted - and only one trip to elland road to come....

Our team just wanted to get back to 2_2 and that was not poss when the 3rd Leeds goal went in.  

Their 4th . Ugh.

Stay calm everybody ! 

As FL says it's how we respond that matters. Won't fancy being in the Oldham team right now. They are going to be at the sharp end of a hiding !!

[Err ram io]

Sorry here is the link 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/yep-jury-bielsa-s-rejuvenated-whites-teach-lampard-s-rams-a-tough-lesson-1-9296967

[HorsforthRam]

FL said there wasn’t anything unexpected from Leeds. Bryson said the game plan wasn’t followed. Second half, Johnson is sent  on to sit on Saiz. So, who wasn’t doing that job in the first half or was the tactic to leave him and let him worry about us?

['Rambe33]

Happy to see some comments on here with a bit of realism. Walking away from Pride Park I was disappointed don;t get me wrong but not angry or upset as I've been before. We were beaten by a superior team on the day. The way Leeds kept the ball, popped it around to then spring attacks was superb and I'm sure what FL and JM are striving to get to with the current squad. 

The gaping holes in the middle of the park first half were alarming but not the only issue to why we were so vulnerable. I do think Huddlestone is a huge miss in terms of calmness on the ball, passing ability and positioning. The hope is we get him back in that DM role to allow Mount and Bryson to go play. My mate had a debate saying because of his lack of pace in the middle he would have been overrun by Leeds. My argument would be that he because he would have been disciplined to stick to his role and occupy the position where the Leeds runners (Saiz) were marauding they wouldn't have had the space to do so. 

Another option may be Evans in there. I know nothing about the guy and hope he's given a chance tomorrow against Oldham but hearing he's comfortable on the ball and mobile would be a blessing for us. Ledley (who I'm actually a fan of) looked lethargic, laboured and out of his depth on Saturday. 

As mentioned we actually attacked well and if we'd got to 2-2 who knows. Bradley Johnson certainly provided more than Ledley but wasn't going to completely change the game. 

 

One thing that stood out for me was that our wingers have to do more. Lawrence first half becuase he was on my side of the ground kept closing down the wrong man. He kept going to the centre half Beradi, leaving Ayling the freedom to receive the ball and jog clear. Not what we needed. Let the CB have it on the edge of the box and pounce on the full back if he recieves it. 

Wilson let himself down when on the ball making poor decisions e.g. Trying to nutmeg someone near the halfway line. He is clever and set up two good chances in the first half and then for Mount in the second but he needs to get in the game more. I dont think he's doing it intentionally but he is hiding in games, needs to demand the ball and get involved from the start. 

 

The way Phillips played for Leeds is what we need in the middle. A pivot man. Someone who isn't bothered about passing it 5-10 yards for 90 minutes and just letting others go play. Huddlestone can be key to this. 

I do also think maybe its time for Keogh to move to the bench. I love the guy, and am by no means part of the mob hating him but something is fundamentally wrong in the back four. Davies and the ball playing Tomori could work. 

The benefit of having a big squad is now we have 2 if not more bodies per position. Therefore if a player doesn't perform they give up the shirt. This can be said for three maybe four players on  the weekend. 

Getting back in the car and hearing "Dave- I've watched Derby for 50 years and that was the worst performance I've ever seen" talk absolute nothingness made me angry, not the performance. The result hurt but they were better than us end of. They're won't be any other team able to play football in that manner in this league so glad we've got them out the way.

Two games in not panic stations, but we do have a tough game Saturday at the Den. I'm intrigued to see how we line up. I'd imagine four changes: Lowe out Malone in, Keogh out Davies in, Ledley out Huddlestone/Evans in and then Jozefzoon/Bennett in for Wilson. 

 

Keep smiling lads. 

 

[Derbyram1983]

I think our midfiekd isn’t good enough. Same midfield apart from mount. We can’t get to grips of the game in the middle of the Park. Didn’t against reading either. Maybe when Huddlestone is back we may keep the ball better. 

[Pub Breath]

18 hours ago, plymouthram said:

Totally agree with these two paragraphs, Bielsa style of fast attacking football, high pressing is going to take its toll. Once they start playing midweek matches, ground gets heavier in the winter months. They like us have 44 more league games, plus cup matches to play. While the pundits are all giving the praise out to Leeds now, it is easy to jump on the band wagon of a side who have won 2 matches and have scored 7 goals. I for one, can not see them keeping up the high, fast pressing and attacking football and will stick my neck out now and state they will not finish in the top 2 and might at best finish 6th.

I'm a Leeds fan and be assured, we're all guarded against that.  I've had a few messages from mates who support other teams, asking me if i'm getting excited yet.  Nope, feet are planted very firmly on the ground after 2 sodding games.  It's nothing.

There's always a temptation to believe that history will repeat itself.  I thought the same about Brighton a couple of seasons ago as they had fallen away after Christmas before.  They broke that pattern so we just have to do the same.

One difference from last season is the caliber of coach.  TC was a rookie.  The other thing is the depth of squad.  We had very little beyond our starting 11 last season so a few injuries and suspension killed us.  Many fans would argue that Blackman, Forshaw, Jannson, Roberts, Bamford and possibly Harrison are the best players we have in their respective positions.  None of them have started a game yet.  We will bring in 2-3 loans too, the club have essentially said as much. We have much more freedom to rotate now, which will keep the squad fresh.  Bringing young Shackleton on against your boys nods at a willingness to use the youth team as well.

Bielsa is far too smart to not know what happened at other clubs and plan to mitigate it this time.  I expect a lot of rotation.

Did we press that much harder than Derby?  Dunno.  Watched the game back  and just thought we were better at it.

[TroyDyer]

We need a ball winner in midfield, that sits in front of the back four and cleans up. No fancy nonsense, and is willing to put a boot in and play the nasty role. Ledley looks like he's aged 10 years over the summer, and Bryson isn't fundamentally a ball winner. That's the player we're missing. 

[Anon]

Leeds were extremely good. They moved the ball well, were confident and competent enough to play out from the back. All their players showed for the ball and worked hard to win it back when not in possession. They've showed they have the ability to play through teams if they sit back, like Stoke, and can also exploit the gaps left by teams looking to press, like Derby.

There's lots of people slating our defence, but they're looking at the wrong area in my opinion. Our midfield was where we lost the battle. We were completely overrun and the ball just kept coming back at our defenders time after time. Ledley got nowhere near Saiz, Mount and Wilson barely made a single tackle between them, and everyone gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas..

Overall is was a disappointing display, but I'm still happier with that than our capitulation to Wolves last year. We left big gaps because we were at least trying to get back into the game. Against Wolves last year we simply accepted that we were nowhere near good enough to compete and just endeavoured to keep the score down.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Basically we played the wrong team at the wrong time. If Leeds carry on like that they will be champions of the division. They were better than Wolves last year for me. We need a little patience from the fans. The team is evolving and this takes a little time. We would have beaten quite a few teams yesterday imo but we will still get better. I'm still VERY optimistic for the season.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Pub Breath said:

I'm a Leeds fan and be assured, we're all guarded against that.  I've had a few messages from mates who support other teams, asking me if i'm getting excited yet.  Nope, feet are planted very firmly on the ground after 2 sodding games.  It's nothing.

There's always a temptation to believe that history will repeat itself.  I thought the same about Brighton a couple of seasons ago as they had fallen away after Christmas before.  They broke that pattern so we just have to do the same.

One difference from last season is the caliber of coach.  TC was a rookie.  The other thing is the depth of squad.  We had very little beyond our starting 11 last season so a few injuries and suspension killed us.  Many fans would argue that Blackman, Forshaw, Jannson, Roberts, Bamford and possibly Harrison are the best players we have in their respective positions.  None of them have started a game yet.  We will bring in 2-3 loans too, the club have essentially said as much. We have much more freedom to rotate now, which will keep the squad fresh.  Bringing young Shackleton on against your boys nods at a willingness to use the youth team as well.

Bielsa is far too smart to not know what happened at other clubs and plan to mitigate it this time.  I expect a lot of rotation.

Did we press that much harder than Derby?  Dunno.  Watched the game back  and just thought we were better at it.

Well said fella. But good luck to the team. Think Leeds have tried to play decent football since you came back up with Beckford, Becchio, Delph etc

It might in the end turn out to be one of those slightly freak results in that more or less everything you tried ended up in a goal - we went through a period last season like that but in the end you realise that you are very unlikely to score 4 out of 7 chances on target consistently over a period. Who knows?

Anyhow, Derby need to focus on getting our game together and creating more chances and trying to reduce the number we give up - that would be a start!

Your manager doesn't half look a miserable sod in the photos I have seen of him tho......?

[Warren Hobhead]

To answer the original question, Leeds were good and we were bad. Similar sort of performance as the Reading game but somehow we pulled a victory out of the bag in the last seconds. 

Early days with a new manager and new players. Let’s hope amongst the 249 players at his disposal he finds a better, more pleasing on the eye XI soon. 

[D is for Derby]

On 11/08/2018 at 23:25, Alpha said:

It was just a defeat. Don't make more of it than it was. 

You don't get to suddenly decide you want to pass teams off the park and smash this league. 

We're building here. 

New manager,new players at Leeds they seem to have decided to pass teams of the park and smash this league.all comes down to belief and attitude.And not forgetting a very talented manager who has been there,done it and got the tee-shirt.we are just not in a system of like for like. 

[Pub Breath]

30 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Well said fella. But good luck to the team. Think Leeds have tried to play decent football since you came back up with Beckford, Becchio, Delph etc

It might in the end turn out to be one of those slightly freak results in that more or less everything you tried ended up in a goal - we went through a period last season like that but in the end you realise that you are very unlikely to score 4 out of 7 chances on target consistently over a period. Who knows?

Anyhow, Derby need to focus on getting our game together and creating more chances and trying to reduce the number we give up - that would be a start!

Your manager doesn't half look a miserable sod in the photos I have seen of him tho......?

I reckon he's on the spectrum, I don't mean that disrespectfully.  Many incredible people are.  He tried a smile in the post match interview and it looked half awkward and half really endearing.

[cannable]

54 minutes ago, D is for Derby said:

New manager,new players at Leeds they seem to have decided to pass teams of the park and smash this league.all comes down to belief and attitude.And not forgetting a very talented manager who has been there,done it and got the tee-shirt.we are just not in a system of like for like. 

Every Leeds outfielder was there last season

[Warren Hobhead]

5 minutes ago, cannable said:

Every Leeds outfielder was there last season

Except Douglas, and Bamford who came off the bench. 

[Duracell]

On 11/08/2018 at 21:16, Beagle said:

Leeds were good in the attacking areas but we did not do enough to disrupt what they were doing till halftime.Nearly all of their good things came through Saiz and we got nobody around him in the first half which begs the question on what the coaches were doing and also the experienced players.

At halftime it was addressed by bringing on Johnson and reducing his effectiveness to a good degree but somebody first half should have picked up that role.Having watched their first two games other teams will sit somebody on him.

I think Bryson and Lampard picked up on this too in their post-match interviews.

Lampard said we knew all about Leeds before hand and “nothing about what they did surprised us.”

Bryson said that when they were pressing, they weren’t doing it effectively as a team and crucially he also said that the team simply didn’t implement the manager’s tactics properly and this allowed to be more dangerous.

Putting two and two together, I think that Plan A’s effectiveness was limited by the fact that the team don’t know how to do the first press properly together against both Leeds and Reading. Against Leeds specifically, someone, or possibly more than one person, failed to do their job properly of picking up on Saiz.

I’m glad this was addressed in the second half.

['Rambe33]

2 hours ago, Anon said:

Leeds were extremely good. They moved the ball well, were confident and competent enough to play out from the back. All their players showed for the ball and worked hard to win it back when not in possession. They've showed they have the ability to play through teams if they sit back, like Stoke, and can also exploit the gaps left by teams looking to press, like Derby.

There's lots of people slating our defence, but they're looking at the wrong area in my opinion. Our midfield was where we lost the battle. We were completely overrun and the ball just kept coming back at our defenders time after time. Ledley got nowhere near Saiz, Mount and Wilson barely made a single tackle between them, and everyone gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas..

Overall is was a disappointing display, but I'm still happier with that than our capitulation to Wolves last year. We left big gaps because we were at least trying to get back into the game. Against Wolves last year we simply accepted that we were nowhere near good enough to compete and just endeavoured to keep the score down.

That last paragraph is spot on @Anon Last year we just rolled over and died against Wolves. Against Leeds who are adopting a similar model to Wolves we were still creating chances and openings in the final third. 

[Cjay]

Think the answer to this is just yes, we were very good and you wernt.

The difference between a very experienced manager and a rookie perhaps. our preparation, the tactical awareness of our players was far above yours and thats down to the coach. 

Dont think any sensible Leeds fans are getting to excited just yet, we allowed ourselves to do that last year and look what happened. 

We are all aware of Bielsa, both his good and bad points. 

We know there is a chance that the December time may kill us and we may suffer, but then we hope that come January we can refresh the squad and go again. 

For me im waiting for Millwall away, in a few weeks, thats a real acid test, last year our bad form started against Millwall, so an improvement on that result, a win, or even a hard fought draw will show that lessons have been learned and maybe the squad really are made of sterner stuff.