ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Logistics and organisational concerns, possibly marketing and other concerns as well would be my guess. Perhaps if there were a week between the draw and the matches it could be organised? Good point that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said: Good point that. Don't get me wrong,I'd love an fa cup style draw (group winners v group runners up for the 16, unseeded after) round in the knockouts, but just think it could be too much to organise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Paul71 said: Ah well if we don't beat them, they are a good team to get through, some stunning female columbia fans picked out by the cameras.? Las chicas colombiana. See, I’m learning Spanish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Carnero said: If Brazil win their group then there's no doubt that the top half of the draw is considerably stronger than the bottom half. The winner of Eng/Bel would join the top half of the draw with a potential QF against Brazil. The loser of Eng/Bel would have a potential QF against Sweden or Switzerland. In this scenario we should play to lose, shouldn't we? I just don't agree. I think England are more likely to turn up against France or Brazil, rather than Sweeden or Switzerland. And besides in the top half of the draw you avoid the best side I have seen so far... Croatia. England v Croatia final it is then! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said: What a guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 There isn’t really a debate to be had. Finishing 2nd is absolutely better than finishing 1st. I just read on the BBC that to win a world cup, you have to beat the best anyway. Erm, no you don’t... Portugal wouldn’t have won Euro 2016 without an unbelievably favourable draw. They finished 3rd in their group and their punishment for being so crap was to avoid Germany, Italy, France, Spain and England until the final. I’m sorry, but if you’re telling me England can avoid playing Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Argentina and France until a potential final the sign me on board... now! Tough games take their toll on players. You can’t expect to go toe-to-toe with a top team, some likely to go to extra time, every five days or so. Mentally that would be so draining. If you’re telling me we can play say Japan and then Sweden and reach the semi-final, where the best team awaiting would probably be Spain who look average or Croatia, then what an opportunity. We could lose to those teams. Sure. But you surely want to play the easiest teams possible. Where is the logic in preferring teams that are arguably better or at least as good as us? I’m sure someone like Man Utd would prefer to play Ajax, Fenerbache and then Juventus on-route to a CL final rather than Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: There isn’t really a debate to be had. Finishing 2nd is absolutely better than finishing 1st. I just read on the BBC that to win a world cup, you have to beat the best anyway. Erm, no you don’t... Portugal wouldn’t have won Euro 2016 without an unbelievably favourable draw. They finished 3rd in their group and their punishment for being so crap was to avoid Germany, Italy, France, Spain and England until the final. I’m sorry, but if you’re telling me England can avoid playing Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Argentina and France until a potential final the sign me on board... now! Tough games take their toll on players. You can’t expect to go toe-to-toe with a top team, some likely to go to extra time, every five days or so. Mentally that would be so draining. If you’re telling me we can play say Japan and then Sweden and reach the semi-final, where the best team awaiting would probably be Spain who look average or Croatia, then what an opportunity. We could lose to those teams. Sure. But you surely want to play the easiest teams possible. Where is the logic in preferring teams that are arguably better or at least as good as us? I’m sure someone like Man Utd would prefer to play Ajax, Fenerbache and then Juventus on-route to a CL final rather than Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich... Just go and smash the lot. trying to creep through by avoiding the better teams devalues any success anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: There isn’t really a debate to be had. Finishing 2nd is absolutely better than finishing 1st. I just read on the BBC that to win a world cup, you have to beat the best anyway. Erm, no you don’t... Portugal wouldn’t have won Euro 2016 without an unbelievably favourable draw. They finished 3rd in their group and their punishment for being so crap was to avoid Germany, Italy, France, Spain and England until the final. I’m sorry, but if you’re telling me England can avoid playing Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Argentina and France until a potential final the sign me on board... now! Tough games take their toll on players. You can’t expect to go toe-to-toe with a top team, some likely to go to extra time, every five days or so. Mentally that would be so draining. If you’re telling me we can play say Japan and then Sweden and reach the semi-final, where the best team awaiting would probably be Spain who look average or Croatia, then what an opportunity. We could lose to those teams. Sure. But you surely want to play the easiest teams possible. Where is the logic in preferring teams that are arguably better or at least as good as us? I’m sure someone like Man Utd would prefer to play Ajax, Fenerbache and then Juventus on-route to a CL final rather than Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich... You’re not wrong. I just can’t bring myself to hope we loose. At least it’s a win-win. I can walk away from the match happy with any result. Best result is probably a draw, with a good performance, conceding to a fluky goal. And finishing second on yellow cards. I could live with that. But it would also be nice to win it, k owing you went the hard way. Portugal will forever be tarnished with ‘well, you’ve couldn’t have had an easier route to the final’. Same as forest really. Im almost sorry Germany went out. It’d be great to smash them in the quarter final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, RamNut said: Just go and smash the lot. trying to creep through by avoiding the better teams devalues any success anyway. It’s why at least one of forests European cups don’t really count. ducking Malmo! You’re having a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just go with it and whatever happens, happens. I don’t believe it should be possible to try and plan routes. Poland “planned” their route to be a top seed for an easier group and that went well for them. We’re going to embarrass ourselves if we purposely finish 2nd, draw Colombia then lose, likewise for Belgium. If we try to win the group, and get through a game like Japan, then losing to Brazil in the QFs would hardly be a disgraceful tournament. I’m sure there will be more surprises in the tournament yet. You plan to avoid Brazil then they lose in the R16. You’ve engineered yourself out of a QF tie with Mexico then. But why couldn’t we beat Brazil? They don’t look anything special so far and we’ve played better football than them. Neymar is clearly unfit, they’re not invincible. We’ve played good football. It doesn’t matter who we’ve played so far, we’ve scored 8 in two games and we have the current top-scorer in the tournament. Teams will fear us as much as we may fear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 This - absolutely. If we just concentrate on ourselves, improving our football, then analyse but don't fear the opposition Then all will be well.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just seen that we've got further in the world cup than Germany for the first time since 1966. Which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Assuming Columbia win their group, England are more than capable of losing to them. South American side who aren't going to poop it and forget how to play? Let's not get carried away. England made the last 16, if they make a QF great, anything beyond that is a once or twice a generation performance. Plotting and cleverness about which drawanf advantageously losing a group game has a pretty huge karma coming feel to it. Like remember Iceland. Personally I think Russia might put Spain out just by "motherland love not at all any drugs" induced hard physical approach and officials with nerve gas allergies... Germany are out, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Even allowing for VAR, there appears to be a willingness by referees, in this World Cup, to award a penalty for holding in the box than in previous tournaments. Could this set a precedent and we'll start seeing more penalties being awarded for holding in our domestic leagues in the coming season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, 1of4 said: Even allowing for VAR, there appears to be a willingness by referees, in this World Cup, to award a penalty for holding in the box than in previous tournaments. Could this set a precedent and we'll start seeing more penalties being awarded for holding in our domestic leagues in the coming season? Hope so. Its been really good to see all the grappling finally resulting in penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: There isn’t really a debate to be had. Finishing 2nd is absolutely better than finishing 1st. I just read on the BBC that to win a world cup, you have to beat the best anyway. Erm, no you don’t... Portugal wouldn’t have won Euro 2016 without an unbelievably favourable draw. They finished 3rd in their group and their punishment for being so crap was to avoid Germany, Italy, France, Spain and England until the final. I’m sorry, but if you’re telling me England can avoid playing Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Argentina and France until a potential final the sign me on board... now! Tough games take their toll on players. You can’t expect to go toe-to-toe with a top team, some likely to go to extra time, every five days or so. Mentally that would be so draining. If you’re telling me we can play say Japan and then Sweden and reach the semi-final, where the best team awaiting would probably be Spain who look average or Croatia, then what an opportunity. We could lose to those teams. Sure. But you surely want to play the easiest teams possible. Where is the logic in preferring teams that are arguably better or at least as good as us? I’m sure someone like Man Utd would prefer to play Ajax, Fenerbache and then Juventus on-route to a CL final rather than Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich... It’s this kind of small-time mentality that will get us nowhere. What kind of ambition and what kind of belief are we showing if we are trying to avoid Brazil, Argentina or France in their current states? If we really want to win a tournament, we have to be bold enough to believe we can beat anyone on any given day. Not trying to engineer our way into second place to get an ‘easier’ draw. If we are too intimidated by the prospect of a knockout tie against any of the aforementioned teams, we should just go home now. For me, I want to see us going for the win against Belgium and putting in a creditable display whatever the outcome. I think a ‘convenient loss’ could be more damaging than people realise. Momentum and belief are so important in tournament football and if we get outclassed, it will be difficult to claw that back, especially because with an supposedly easier draw comes greater expectations to progress further. The reason these players are thriving is because there is no discernible pressure or expectation. We can just play freely without being weighed down. Games against the likes of Japan, Senegal, Sweden or Switzerland are the last thing we want because the ‘England Expects’ mentality would come flooding back and I just don’t know if this group of players can handle that added pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I’d take winning the group and being in the half of the draw with the more established teams all day long. A potential quarter final with Brazil and a potential semi final with France, Portugal or Argentina represents a great carrot for these players and a great opportunity for this team to say we have arrived and to make a statement by overcoming some of the world’s traditionally top sides. Any run deep into the knockout stages will only be made sweeter if we beat some old rivals of ours against all logic and against all odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Carnero said: Would be fairer to all if the draw were not all pre-mapped out before the tournament starts. Put group winners in one pot. Runners up in another pot. Draw out the last 16 ties after the groups have all finished. No danger of any team setting out not to win their final group game then. 8 hours ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said: Was thinking this other day. Don't get why it has to be Group A v B and C v D etc. It is to ensure that all teams have a similar rest time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Strange on this.. Definitely finishing second is a better draw on paper but are we more worried about big names playing poorly or lesser names playing well. Cant quite get my head around not wanting to win a game, so I will take 1st place.. Have not seen much to worry anyone’s yet.. We’ve only won two games against poor sides.. Wide open, come on England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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