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Chris Martin

Waffle

By Waffle
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AndyinLiverpool

AndyinLiverpool

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

What's the point in replacing him with a player who is no better than him.

Why do you think he's going to be 'replaced'? He has spent a season and a half of the last two out on loan. That's surplus to requirements, not essential part of the team.

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jimbobram

jimbobram

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Why do you think he's going to be 'replaced'? He has spent a season and a half of the last two out on loan. That's surplus to requirements, not essential part of the team.

If you read what I was responding too you'll realise why I put 'replaced' :)

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cheron85

cheron85

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2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Why do you think he's going to be 'replaced'? He has spent a season and a half of the last two out on loan. That's surplus to requirements, not essential part of the team.

 

2 hours ago, jimbobram said:

If you read what I was responding too you'll realise why I put 'replaced' :)

We are in desperate need of a forward now if Martin is going - Nugent and Jerome aren't long-term options up front - We can get another decent season out of both but if we want to build for the next 3-4 years we need to see a forward who is maximum 29 in the mix (like say Martin)

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jimbobram

jimbobram

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10 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

 

We are in desperate need of a forward now if Martin is going - Nugent and Jerome aren't long-term options up front - We can get another decent season out of both but if we want to build for the next 3-4 years we need to see a forward who is maximum 29 in the mix (like say Martin)

Jack Marriott

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cheron85

cheron85

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5 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

Jack Marriott

No thanks - Never seen him but he's a League One striker currently - And is a little on the short side

I'd happily bring him in as a backup to Vydra say - Give him a go, see how he reacts - But not as our first choice number 9

Someone like James Wilson is what we should be after - Premier League youth system pedigree, looked decent when we had him on loan - And around 22/23 - Probably not going to break into the Utd team anytime soon so probably looking for a chance to prove himself

For me Wisdom this season has shown why buying from PL youth academies is better than taking punts on the lower league

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jimbobram

jimbobram

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6 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

No thanks - Never seen him but he's a League One striker currently - And is a little on the short side

I'd happily bring him in as a backup to Vydra say - Give him a go, see how he reacts - But not as our first choice number 9

Someone like James Wilson is what we should be after - Premier League youth system pedigree, looked decent when we had him on loan - And around 22/23 - Probably not going to break into the Utd team anytime soon so probably looking for a chance to prove himself

For me Wisdom this season has shown why buying from PL youth academies is better than taking punts on the lower league

Imagine if Leicester thought that about Vardy....

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Anon

Anon

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I'll have to disagree on Wilson. I'm afraid I don't see what is supposedly so impressive about the guy. He's looked decidedly average to me during all three of his Championship loan spells. Having said that, I would've said something similar about Harry Kane after his loan spell at Leicester, so what do I know?

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clarkeram7

clarkeram7

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7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

No thanks - Never seen him but he's a League One striker currently - And is a little on the short side

I'd happily bring him in as a backup to Vydra say - Give him a go, see how he reacts - But not as our first choice number 9

Someone like James Wilson is what we should be after - Premier League youth system pedigree, looked decent when we had him on loan - And around 22/23 - Probably not going to break into the Utd team anytime soon so probably looking for a chance to prove himself

For me Wisdom this season has shown why buying from PL youth academies is better than taking punts on the lower league

So you'd rather go for Wilson who's not proved it anywhere he's been over someone who has just bagged 27 goals in the league below and you're basing your opinion without ever seeing him play? Absolute nonsense ?I've watched him a few times and he's dangerous, links up well with the midfield and good with the ball at his feet. 

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cheron85

cheron85

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Just now, jimbobram said:

Imagine if Leicester thought that about Vardy....

The same team that signed Matty James, James De Laet and Danny Drinkwater. 

Vardy was a one off - Yes he's a sensational player but they are few and far between - Much better option to get a player who's got pedigree of a top training academy behind them

Just now, Anon said:

I'll have to disagree on Wilson. I'm afraid I don't see what is supposedly so impressive about the guy. He's looked decidedly average to me during all three of his Championship loan spells. Having said that, I would've said something similar about Harry Kane after his loan spell at Leicester, so what do I know?

He was an example - First one off the top of my head - Thought he looked sharp when he played for us and was unlucky with injury - But those are the kind of players I've always maintained we should be in for - 22/23 yr olds from top academies who are ready for a top 4 PL side but will be easily good enough for the Championship

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jimbobram

jimbobram

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Just now, cheron85 said:

The same team that signed Matty James, James De Laet and Danny Drinkwater. 

Vardy was a one off - Yes he's a sensational player but they are few and far between - Much better option to get a player who's got pedigree of a top training academy behind them

He was an example - First one off the top of my head - Thought he looked sharp when he played for us and was unlucky with injury - But those are the kind of players I've always maintained we should be in for - 22/23 yr olds from top academies who are ready for a top 4 PL side but will be easily good enough for the Championship

The same Danny Drinkwater that played a massive part in winning the prem and went to Chelsea for 30+ mil ?

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cheron85

cheron85

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4 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said:

So you'd rather go for Wilson who's not proved it anywhere he's been over someone who has just bagged 27 goals in the league below and you're basing your opinion without ever seeing him play? Absolute nonsense ?I've watched him a few times and he's dangerous, links up well with the midfield and good with the ball at his feet. 

"Someone like James Wilson" doesn't mean "sign James Wilson" - He's a name which popped out as the kind of player we should be looking at - PL academies not League one

Why do I think that? Chris Maguire, Theo Robinson, Liam Dickinson - Can't remember any more off the top of my head but my point is - It's not very often you find a gem down there

Oddly I'm not a football scout - Just some dude on a forum who has a full time job and doesn't have time to watch random League One games

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cheron85

cheron85

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2 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

The same Danny Drinkwater that played a massive part in winning the prem and went to Chelsea for 30+ mil ?

Yes - Exactly that one - That's my point - Buy pedigree

Where did they get him from? Manchester United for a nominal fee

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jimbobram

jimbobram

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3 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Yes - Exactly that one - That's my point - Buy pedigree

Where did they get him from? Manchester United for a nominal fee

Him and the other 2 you mention are completely different though.

 

Are you saying that no one in league 1 is worth signing?

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cheron85

cheron85

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25 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

Him and the other 2 you mention are completely different though.

 

Are you saying that no one in league 1 is worth signing?

All three were highly influential players in Leicester's promotion season, came direct from the Man Utd academy for not very much money and I think all have Premier League winners medals (assuming James played enough that season to get one?) - Yes, Drinkwater has gone on to out-strip the others but they were all of a quality which is necessary for the top end of the Championship

I'm sure there are a few decent players in League One - But realistically how many of the players from Sheffield United, Millwall and Bolton would improve our side? They were the best teams in League One the season before last, all have survived and Millwall especially have thrived

But how many of their players would genuinely improve our first team? How many of them are better than what we currently have? I wouldn't say many...

The equivalent question would be - How many of our players would improve a top 10 Premier League side? We have the top scorer from the Championship - Do you think he'd get into a Champions League challenging team in the league above us?

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clarkeram7

clarkeram7

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50 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

"Someone like James Wilson" doesn't mean "sign James Wilson" - He's a name which popped out as the kind of player we should be looking at - PL academies not League one

Why do I think that? Chris Maguire, Theo Robinson, Liam Dickinson - Can't remember any more off the top of my head but my point is - It's not very often you find a gem down there

Oddly I'm not a football scout - Just some dude on a forum who has a full time job and doesn't have time to watch random League One games

I'll give you Liam Dickinson however Maguire came from Scotland and Robinson was signed from a team in our league. 

I'd actually argue we've never ever invested in lower league talent, it's never been our model. Clough ventured to clubs and players he already knew but even his transfer dealings can't be described as signing the better players from the lower leagues. 

You're telling me it's not often these players are a success yet Marriott plays for the same clubs as did: George Boyd, Craig Mackail Smith, Aaron McLean, Dwight Gayle, Assombalonga, Conor Washington and Lee Tomlin. You said like Wilson, then who are you suggesting because I don't think they're there? 

Dean Smith is doing a similar job at Brentford and it's more sustainable than investing in players who are working their way backdown the divisions rather than up. It baffles me how much time supposedly we've put into our scouting network over the last few years yet all we ever sign is players who have been around the for years. 

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therealhantsram

therealhantsram

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16 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

 

I'm sure there are a few decent players in League One - But realistically how many of the players from Sheffield United, Millwall and Bolton would improve our side? They were the best teams in League One the season before last, all have survived and Millwall especially have thrived

But how many of their players would genuinely improve our first team? How many of them are better than what we currently have? I wouldn't say many...

The equivalent question would be - How many of our players would improve a top 10 Premier League side? We have the top scorer from the Championship - Do you think he'd get into a Champions League challenging team in the league above us?

This is a fair point... to some extent.  You look at Sheff U... and knowing that Paul Coutts was their key player.   We all know about Coutts. Decent enough player at this level.  Would he improve us? Or be the right 'quality' for a top 6 team? 

On paper maybe not.

BUT it's not that simple.  It's about getting the right blend of players that complement each other. It's the reason Leices could win the Premier League. It's the reason Cardiff could finish above Villa.

Going out and buying Hourihan and Lansbury, or loaning a Bryson?

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cheron85

cheron85

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5 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said:

I'll give you Liam Dickinson however Maguire came from Scotland and Robinson was signed from a team in our league. 

Ah well - My mistake - I just probably associate them with League one because that's the level of player they were - However I was genuinely excited by Dickinson and Maguire when they arrived - Because we were a lower-end team aspiring to mid-table - We're not that any more

6 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said:

You're telling me it's not often these players are a success yet Marriott plays for the same clubs as did: George Boyd, Craig Mackail Smith, Aaron McLean, Dwight Gayle, Assombalonga, Conor Washington and Lee Tomlin. 

I'd have Assombalonga in the team in a heartbeat - He's a definite improvement - And George Boyd was a genuine talent (and proved it)

The others were pretty much mid-table Championship players at their peak - That's the level you generally get from League One - Players who would be backup players for us at best 

10 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said:

You said like Wilson, then who are you suggesting because I don't think they're there? 

Again - I'm not a scout - But the kind of player we should be after is a 21/22/23 year old who's being released from a top academy 

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