Ram8 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I feel, very strongly, that we would be in a MUCH BETTER position if we were now playing Chris Martin regularly, and a MUCH, MUCH BETTER position, particularly if Rowett had also appreciated Will Hughes, and / or given Elsnick his first team chance .. But his one dimensional tactical thinking, that we got away with for a while, has now started to show his serious limitations as a manager, and if Mel Morris starts to tot up the costly mistakes and seriously flawed assessments of ‘player values’ to the club that Rowett has promoted, then he may (justifiably in my view) bring out the axe again, and look to introduce the ‘Derby Way’ once again, under another manager, because that is the only way that we will get out of this division AND succeed in the Premiership ! Possibly his most serious tactical mistake is to neglect the yawning chasm of empty space between Tom Huddlestone / George Thorne and Vydra; because Vydra is NOT a ‘traditional’ linking No. 10 (like Norwich’s Maddison or Fulham’s Cairney), and, despite his valuable goals, cannot be expected to play immediately behind our No. 9, AND be that ‘scheming’ link man ! The unfortunate result of this ‘wide open space’ policy is the tactic of having Huddlestone limit himself to launching long balls to wingmen who have not got either the pace or acumen to take them on the run and deliver dangerous crosses .. he (and Thorne) should be alternating this tactic with giving short, accurate balls to (should have been) Hughes or Elsnick .. I (and to be fair) some other supporters on this Forum, can see this so clearly, why cannot our well paid professional manager ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 You ever consider the manager might know a thing or two About tactics more than you, a fan on a football forum? If you honestly think you could have done a better job with the squad and resources available then you’re seriously deluded. I’m pretty sure Rowett has noticed the chasm in midfield, hence links with the likes of Ryan woods, but we simply don’t have the funds to sort it out, so he’s implemented a style of play with Huddlestone distributing to wingers making runs, which worked for a while and still is to an extent attacking wise. Do you really think Martin would come in and stop Forsyth and Keogh gifting goals to the opposition? Cause we’re scoring enough goals, and it’s not like he’s gonna be any better in our pressing style of play. To get the best out of Martin we’d need a whole new midfield, putting him in there as it stands would improve nothing, and probably worsen matters imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 bad run of results - blame the manager - sack the manager - takes a while to settle - good run of results and good position - bad run of results - blame the manager - sack the manager..... repeat. You're right, the exact same tactic we have been doing is the only way we will get out of the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd miner Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Sack sum o the players my owd... if you carnt do your job you would be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Ram 8 ......... get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 There are times when I despair at being a Derby supporter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Ram8 said: I feel, very strongly, that we would be in a MUCH BETTER position if we were now playing Chris Martin regularly, and a MUCH, MUCH BETTER position, particularly if Rowett had also appreciated Will Hughes, and / or given Elsnick his first team chance .. But his one dimensional tactical thinking, that we got away with for a while, has now started to show his serious limitations as a manager, and if Mel Morris starts to tot up the costly mistakes and seriously flawed assessments of ‘player values’ to the club that Rowett has promoted, then he may (justifiably in my view) bring out the axe again, and look to introduce the ‘Derby Way’ once again, under another manager, because that is the only way that we will get out of this division AND succeed in the Premiership ! Possibly his most serious tactical mistake is to neglect the yawning chasm of empty space between Tom Huddlestone / George Thorne and Vydra; because Vydra is NOT a ‘traditional’ linking No. 10 (like Norwich’s Maddison or Fulham’s Cairney), and, despite his valuable goals, cannot be expected to play immediately behind our No. 9, AND be that ‘scheming’ link man ! The unfortunate result of this ‘wide open space’ policy is the tactic of having Huddlestone limit himself to launching long balls to wingmen who have not got either the pace or acumen to take them on the run and deliver dangerous crosses .. he (and Thorne) should be alternating this tactic with giving short, accurate balls to (should have been) Hughes or Elsnick .. I (and to be fair) some other supporters on this Forum, can see this so clearly, why cannot our well paid professional manager ? I trust you're busily preparing your application form for when Gary does get the chop. Sound like you're a much better qualified football manager and coach than GR (well, in your own mind anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Makes you wonder why Mel pays GR A million a year, sounds a piece of piss this management lark, i'll do it for 50k a year no worries, free tickets for all the games, cant be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I despair that it appears people are derided for posting their feelings on an open forum. Supporting a football club is an emotive business, we all see things in our own unique way, we’re going to agree with some posts, disagree with others, but one thing that stands out to me is I don’t see Rowett sceptics ridiculing the staunch Rowett believers. Personally I don’t think @Ram8 has posted anything outrageous yet he is told to get over himself by one member and has another despairing by, I assume, people happy with Rowett. Why aren’t people allowed to be unhappy with him ? All I see from his faithful is excuse after excuse for him, FFP, not had enough transfer windows, (he’s shown himself to be a little incompetent in his two so far what makes people think his third will be any better, he does like a drop of lastminute.com) not his own players, hamstrung by previous spending etc. Didn’t stop him telling us this squad should be top 2 at the start of the season, a quote often forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said: I despair that it appears people are derided for posting their feelings on an open forum. Supporting a football club is an emotive business, we all see things in our own unique way, we’re going to agree with some posts, disagree with others, but one thing that stands out to me is I don’t see Rowett sceptics ridiculing the staunch Rowett believers. Personally I don’t think @Ram8 has posted anything outrageous yet he is told to get over himself by one member and has another despairing by, I assume, people happy with Rowett. Why aren’t people allowed to be unhappy with him ? All I see from his faithful is excuse after excuse for him, FFP, not had enough transfer windows, (he’s shown himself to be a little incompetent in his two so far what makes people think his third will be any better, he does like a drop of lastminute.com) not his own players, hamstrung by previous spending etc. Didn’t stop him telling us this squad should be top 2 at the start of the season, a quote often forgotten. People are allowed to be unhappy, just like we had earlier in the season, and with previous managers and the keogh thread that was running. However as you say its an open forum, so if someone is allowed to be unhappy with Rowett, are other posters not allowed to be unhappy with what the poster has said? The poster has said its plain for ALL to see, he (or she) should not be making statements on the assumption its what we ALL think, because we dont. If people disagree of course they are going to say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: You ever consider the manager might know a thing or two About tactics more than you, a fan on a football forum? If you honestly think you could have done a better job with the squad and resources available then you’re seriously deluded. It's a forum innit. People say stuff. It'd be a bit dull if we just said 'well done Gary' when we win and 'bad luck Gary' when we lose. And when a player is sold just say 'oh well Gary knows best'. And anyway, I do happen to think i could do a better job than Rowett. And I know I'd be a better choice to take England to the world cup than Southgate. You should see what my Doncaster team achieved on FM17 with world class Juanmi bagging the balon d'or! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Paul71 said: People are allowed to be unhappy, just like we had earlier in the season, and with previous managers and the keogh thread that was running. However as you say its an open forum, so if someone is allowed to be unhappy with Rowett, are other posters not allowed to be unhappy with what the poster has said? The poster has said its plain for ALL to see, he (or she) should not be making statements on the assumption its what we ALL think, because we dont. If people disagree of course they are going to say so. Personally I think there’s a way to disagree/engage in debate without undermining. Theres been some really interesting points made recently and frankly I think it’s makes a better forum than we had during the Martin saga in Jan where people were stating opinion as fact (I had to take a couple weeks away to reboot). But I still wish people would consider what’s being said rather than disagreeing for the sake of it if it might question Rowett (not pointing that at you btw!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: Personally I think there’s a way to disagree/engage in debate without undermining. Theres been some really interesting points made recently and frankly I think it’s makes a better forum than we had during the Martin saga in Jan where people were stating opinion as fact (I had to take a couple weeks away to reboot). But I still wish people would consider what’s being said rather than disagreeing for the sake of it if it might question Rowett (not pointing that at you btw!) I do agree, and it shouldn't get personal. I don't like when people come out of the woodwork though when things start to go wrong but stay quiet during the periods things were going well. My pennies worth, and i might be wrong, i usually am, is that GR is good for us and will continue to be so, and I am sure we will make the play offs which we all would have accepted as above expectations before the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram8 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Whether or not (as I believe) Derby would be in a better position at the end of the season had Martin, Hughes, Elsnick been playing regularly cannot of course be proved, BUT, what can, is my contention that we will not finish any higher than sixth or seventh, just scraping into the play-offs, or narrowly missing out .. and if I am wrong and we reach the Premiership in style under Gary Rowett’s guidance then I will be just as pleased as anyone else, but will look forward to next season only with great trepidation unless we recruit MUCH better than in the last two transfer windows .. And if we fail to get promoted, then yes, I probably would be a better choice for manager than GR !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Ram8 said: Whether or not (as I believe) Derby would be in a better position at the end of the season had Martin, Hughes, Elsnick been playing regularly cannot of course be proved, BUT, what can, is my contention that we will not finish any higher than sixth or seventh, just scraping into the play-offs, or narrowly missing out .. and if I am wrong and we reach the Premiership in style under Gary Rowett’s guidance then I will be just as pleased as anyone else, but will look forward to next season only with great trepidation unless we recruit MUCH better than in the last two transfer windows .. And if we fail to get promoted, then yes, I probably would e a better choice for manager than GR !! Fair do, you cannot prove it yet though, not until the end of the season. Just if we do go up, maybe you can not stay quiet as you mostly have done through the purple patch and come on and agree you were wrong (if indeed you were). Im sure if we dont make it you will be full of I told you so's. You wouldnt be a better choice though unless you are some well know figure in football you arent telling us. (In my opinion). If you are famous, can I have your autograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Parsnip said: It's a forum innit. People say stuff. It'd be a bit dull if we just said 'well done Gary' when we win and 'bad luck Gary' when we lose. And when a player is sold just say 'oh well Gary knows best'. And anyway, I do happen to think i could do a better job than Rowett. And I know I'd be a better choice to take England to the world cup than Southgate. You should see what my Doncaster team achieved on FM17 with world class Juanmi bagging the balon d'or! Of course but it’s the just the way some people come across. I’ve seen the posts the OP has made and they all seem to be very hyperbolic and generalised. A bit of balance is all I ask for, you might not like some of Gary’s decisions but some posts on here are ridiculous from certain posters. Saying we can’t get promoted without sacking him and that we all know better than him so he’s an idiot is obscenely harsh. Ah the old football manager pro, should have seen my Barca side circa 2030 Tbf I think anyone on here would do a better job than Southgate, that’s a whole different level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 41 minutes ago, Paul71 said: The poster has said its plain for ALL to see, he (or she) should not be making statements on the assumption its what we ALL think, because we dont. If people disagree of course they are going to say so. 22 minutes ago, Paul71 said: My pennies worth, and i might be wrong, i usually am, is that GR is good for us and will continue to be so, and I am sure we will make the play offs which we all would have accepted as above expectations before the season started. Ah you mean you assumptions should only be made when you agree or make them ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 When you post on a public forum you have to accept your views will be challenged, I agree with TuffLuff in that there is a way to disagree/agree without undermining, but I often find the tone of replies are dictated by the opening post. We had one with Lawrence not so long back, "what is the point in Lawrence" and "Just using oxygen", the member openly admitted later they were being provocative. Now I'm not suggesting Ram8 has been provocative in any way with this thread, but I can understand how it's not developed into a serious discussion with the tone which does have a whiff of "we know more than Rowett" whilst speaking on behalf of other fans, which Chris Martin actually divides so many on, I don't think it's as plain for all to see as Ram8 thinks. I am a Martin fan, why wouldn't I be? Top scorer 3 seasons running I like goals, he scores them! Gutted when we loaned him to Fulham, delighted he came back and a little sad it didn't work out for him under Rowett. In all honesty when you look at our "problems" in the team I don't see Martin being the answer despite being a little wasteful in recent games in front of goal. Martin is also on loan now, no recall, he's at Reading till the end of the season like it or not, he's not an option we have. Elsnik also on loan is impressing at Swindon, but I posted recently we have to remember this is in League 2, we still don't know if he will be able to cut it at this level, lost count of the young players I have seen posts of give them a chance for their careers to end up playing for the Dog & Duck. I personally think it was a great move to send him out on loan, gets a first full season of first team football under his belt and give him the experience of playing in front of a paying and we'll boo when we want crowd. Even better he's now involved in a play off challenge! This season could be the making of him and be of huge benefit to us next year, or the manager and coaches may feel he needs another season out on loan at a higher level, I wouldn't be against that but would like to see him involved in pre season with our first team first. I also disagree strongly with a post Ram8 made in another topic which went under the radar today, Nugent and Jerome League 1 at best was the claim. Both have had successful careers at a higher level than League 1 and whilst Nugent is out of form it's tad disrespectful to make such a claim. Jerome, early days, probably still uses a sat nav to find his way to Pride Park, give him a chance, a real chance, Martin didn't hit the ground running when he arrived either, took some time and a Steve McClaren to get the best out of him. It's neither of their fault that Martin is no longer with us, they are our players which we have to choose from between now and May, I think we should perhaps get behind them a little more and hope one of them starts finding the net again for us soon. As always, open to being disagreed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Ah you mean you assumptions should only be made when you agree or make them ??? I did say I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Paul71 said: I did say I may be wrong. I meant the bit about ALL accepting the play offs would be above expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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