Full Backs

[Norman]

15 hours ago, Inglorius said:

Am sure we could just misinterpret the rules like Leicester and get a 3 million pound fine or is Mel Morris not that clever 

If Mel bought a player for 3 million, it would cost him 6. If that player earns 20 grand a week, then it would cost him 40 grand a week. It could also mean we'd have an embargo placed over us in the next window.

Then you could question his intelligence.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

34 minutes ago, Norman said:

If Mel bought a player for 3 million, it would cost him 6. If that player earns 20 grand a week, then it would cost him 40 grand a week. It could also mean we'd have an embargo placed over us in the next window.

Then you could question his intelligence.

I think you only get fines if you’re promoted but an embargo now would cripple us that’s why we’ve had to be so careful. We need 4 players in the summer lb, Cm, winger, striker.

[angieram]

Ok, just a few statistics from the League games only so far this season to add to this very subjective debate!

Defensive Performance

Forsyth Played 23 Goals Against 16 Average 0.69

Wisdom Played 18 Goals Against 16 Average 0.88

Olsson Played 11 Goals Against 15 Average 1.36

Baird Played 16 Goals Against 15 Average 0.93

So, Forsyth clearly on top of that set of stats.

Team Performance

Forsyth Points 41 Average 1.78

Wisdom Points 33 Average 1.83

Olsson Points 19 Average 1.72

Baird Points 27 Average 1.68

Much closer here, but Wisdom comes out on top. 

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

Of course, lots of variables at play here and I'm sure a statistician would tell me that these numbers are so small anyway that there is a high degree of unreliability. For example, doesn't take into account the quality of the opposition, the rest of the team selections or the types of goals scored or chances missed (at either end!) 

My possibly un-sound conclusions? If you're looking for clean sheets pick Forsyth over Olsson; Baird v Wisdom much closer but Wisdom shades it.

If you're looking for wins pick Wisdom over Baird; Forsyth v Olsson much closer but Forsyth shades that one.

Oh, and I've got too much time on my hands on a Sunday morning. 

[Gritstone Ram]

38 minutes ago, angieram said:

Ok, just a few statistics from the League games only so far this season to add to this very subjective debate!

Defensive Performance

Forsyth Played 23 Goals Against 16 Average 0.69

Wisdom Played 18 Goals Against 16 Average 0.88

Olsson Played 11 Goals Against 15 Average 1.36

Baird Played 16 Goals Against 15 Average 0.93

So, Forsyth clearly on top of that set of stats.

Team Performance

Forsyth Points 41 Average 1.78

Wisdom Points 33 Average 1.83

Olsson Points 19 Average 1.72

Baird Points 27 Average 1.68

Much closer here, but Wisdom comes out on top. 

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

Of course, lots of variables at play here and I'm sure a statistician would tell me that these numbers are so small anyway that there is a high degree of unreliability. For example, doesn't take into account the quality of the opposition, the rest of the team selections or the types of goals scored or chances missed (at either end!) 

My possibly un-sound conclusions? If you're looking for clean sheets pick Forsyth over Olsson; Baird v Wisdom much closer but Wisdom shades it.

If you're looking for wins pick Wisdom over Baird; Forsyth v Olsson much closer but Forsyth shades that one.

Oh, and I've got too much time on my hands on a Sunday morning. 

After what I saw yesterday it has to be Forsyth and Wisdom next game.

The other thing your statistics don't show is home and away games and when the squad has been changed for certain games. 

[DcFc Dyycheee]

I wanted Olsson to come in, but I think we should go back to basics and do what we was doing before. So I'd go Wisdom and Forsyth for the rest of the season. New left back is an absolute must in the summer. Lowe as cover and sell both Olsson and Forsyth. 

[BramcoteRam84]

Forsyth was fine against Bristol yet was dropped. Came back in and had a stinker, can happen if taken out of the side. Issue I have is defensively he was playing as well as he has for some time, was in a rhythm only to be taken out of the team unnecessarily.

Same with  Wisdom. And then fast forward, but 3 games 7 goals conceded, with at least 6 of them coming from full back areas!

Rowett and the replacement full backs all culpable in my opinion!

[Doodle]

29 minutes ago, Gritters said:

After what I saw yesterday it has to be Forsyth and Wisdom next game.

The other thing your statistics don't show is home and away games and when the squad has been changed for certain games. 

After what I saw yesterday, I want neither left back  to play. We have what we have and need to make the best of it. Anya can play full back, no idea who is u23 left back or how good he is, but is he an option?  Can we still sign free agents? Can we afford one? And who’s available?? Could we play 3 at the back and drop both of em???  Lots of questions but unable to provide the answers. Gary has a tough week ahead of him 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Doodle said:

After what I saw yesterday, I want neither left back  to play. We have what we have and need to make the best of it. Anya can play full back, no idea who is u23 left back or how good he is, but is he an option?  Can we still sign free agents? Can we afford one? And who’s available?? Could we play 3 at the back and drop both of em???  Lots of questions but unable to provide the answers. Gary has a tough week ahead of him 

I think prior to discovering he had glass legs, Max Lowe was immensely promising. Unfortunately, along with seemingly every other U23 prospect he's out on loan. I think the mid-term strategy should be to get him in the side next year at which point one or more of Anya, Fozzy or Olsson can go. My preference is always for defenders who, first and foremost, can defend, so I'd lean towards keeping Fozzy above the other two.  

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Ok, just a few statistics from the League games only so far this season to add to this very subjective debate!

Defensive Performance

Forsyth Played 23 Goals Against 16 Average 0.69

Wisdom Played 18 Goals Against 16 Average 0.88

Olsson Played 11 Goals Against 15 Average 1.36

Baird Played 16 Goals Against 15 Average 0.93

So, Forsyth clearly on top of that set of stats.

Team Performance

Forsyth Points 41 Average 1.78

Wisdom Points 33 Average 1.83

Olsson Points 19 Average 1.72

Baird Points 27 Average 1.68

Much closer here, but Wisdom comes out on top. 

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

Of course, lots of variables at play here and I'm sure a statistician would tell me that these numbers are so small anyway that there is a high degree of unreliability. For example, doesn't take into account the quality of the opposition, the rest of the team selections or the types of goals scored or chances missed (at either end!) 

My possibly un-sound conclusions? If you're looking for clean sheets pick Forsyth over Olsson; Baird v Wisdom much closer but Wisdom shades it.

If you're looking for wins pick Wisdom over Baird; Forsyth v Olsson much closer but Forsyth shades that one.

Oh, and I've got too much time on my hands on a Sunday morning. 

Some interesting stats there, like you say always have to be taken with a pinch of salt, but still useful to look at. The one that really surprises me is Baird, I’ve always thought in the main (yesterday excepted) when he plays we’ve tended to be better as a team. But those stats actually show the exact opposite. As somewhat of a statistician myself (it will form a significant part of my uni course) these sorts of stats certainly shouldn’t be ignored in the modern era, I know football clubs have more and more analysts nowadays to look at this sort of thing. I would tend to say your right in the numbers are too tight to draw any conclusion (other than one of no correlation), but still maybe wisdom therefore is the better option?

If you fancy being even sadder (like me), whoscored is always good to look through after a game. You can often pinpoint issues that way, for instance Olssons 33% (!) pass success rate yesterday will have no doubt caused a problem. You have to take account of the game situation mind, but still, I can see why big teams look at that sort of thing now, tiny details you may not have noticed live often come to the fore.

[angieram]

21 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Some interesting stats there, like you say always have to be taken with a pinch of salt, but still useful to look at. The one that really surprises me is Baird, I’ve always thought in the main (yesterday excepted) when he plays we’ve tended to be better as a team. But those stats actually show the exact opposite. As somewhat of a statistician myself (it will form a significant part of my uni course) these sorts of stats certainly shouldn’t be ignored in the modern era, I know football clubs have more and more analysts nowadays to look at this sort of thing. I would tend to say your right in the numbers are too tight to draw any conclusion (other than one of no correlation), but still maybe wisdom therefore is the better option?

If you fancy being even sadder (like me), whoscored is always good to look through after a game. You can often pinpoint issues that way, for instance Olssons 33% (!) pass success rate yesterday will have no doubt caused a problem. You have to take account of the game situation mind, but still, I can see why big teams look at that sort of thing now, tiny details you may not have noticed live often come to the fore.

Thanks. I just worked these out for myself from the dcfc website but you are right, there are armies of people doing this sort of thing on a regular basis for the big sports websites.

I did it really because my instincts tell me Fozzy is the better defender but there are some fans who can see no good in him at all so I thought I'd check it out. As passing is one of the things they berate him for it's interesting how low Olsson's success rate was yesterday. Forsyth's may well have been similar if he was playing but he'd probably have got a lot more stick for it! 

[Millenniumram]

31 minutes ago, angieram said:

Thanks. I just worked these out for myself from the dcfc website but you are right, there are armies of people doing this sort of thing on a regular basis for the big sports websites.

I did it really because my instincts tell me Fozzy is the better defender but there are some fans who can see no good in him at all so I thought I'd check it out. As passing is one of the things they berate him for it's interesting how low Olsson's success rate was yesterday. Forsyth's may well have been similar if he was playing but he'd probably have got a lot more stick for it! 

Yeah I’ve been pretty critical of Forsyth but I don’t think you can argue he’s not the better defender. It’s definately his passing that’s the problem and Ive been keeping track of that sort of thing statistically and I’ve seen him have quite a few games where it’s been about 50%, which certainly is an issue. Olsson shouldn’t escape criticism for his performance therefore as it really was poor, if olsson can’t get his main strength right then he does need to be dropped.

[Sparkle]

Personally I don’t rate Olson as a defender and Forsyth has had those two bad injuries but if you compare the goals conceded when either has been in the team this season then we seem to let a lot more in when Olson starts, at right back Baird has done well but he Is 37 so what are we expecting and to me Wisdom has done nothing wrong with Baird staring because his passing is better and he has been taking set pieces because others have been useless at times

one other aspect of our vulnerability may well be the disappearance of Russell working his socks of in both directions consistently whereas others do it when they feel like it

[deanoakaram4life]

Don't rate Ollson at all. His failure to take out that Leeds player says everything about his character. A new LB and RB are needed in summer as I can't see us offering Baird a new deal.

[Ramchop]

15 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

The one that really surprises me is Baird, I’ve always thought in the main (yesterday excepted) when he plays we’ve tended to be better as a team. But those stats actually show the exact opposite. 

Without looking, my gut feelings been that Baird is more likely to play the games we expect to be tighter and therefore his Points to Games ratio would be lower.

You can't really judge players performances against each other without looking at an endless number of variables such as weather, strength of opposition, time since last game, confidence levels. Therefore the numbers mean nothing

[G STAR RAM]

I made a thread earlier in the season praising Olsson, really thought he had turned things around and learned how to defend properly.

Well he's soon gone back to his old self.

He just looks so uninterested to me. 

Not sure if anyone else picked up on it against Leeds but about 15 minutes in a ball boy threw the ball back to him quite quickly and Olsson was telling him to slow down!

For saying GR seems to be a manager who values 'character' I'm very surprised Olsson kept his place after that half hearted challenge in the lead up to Leeds second goal.