What is football

[Alph]

1 hour ago, archied said:

 

it makes me sad to see posters on here who I'm sure believe they are Derby fans allow themselves to become so diluted ,so mislead that they are switching off from THEIR club if they are not Chelsea ,Man U , Man City,arsenal and compounding the problem by being happier to boost the viewing figures and pockets of the sky darlings than support their own club , but hey crack on , give up your season tickets ,stop going and tune in to sky WWF/ fantasy football,

I wouldn't say I really care about how high or low I rate on the fan'o'meter. I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games. I've been when we were good, crap and inbetween. I've been part of just a couple of hundred people at a dump of an away ground on a Tuesday night. And I'm the same bloke now that would rather take my daughter's to a play center than go to watch Derby. I'd rather go to work and earn a bit of extra cash for a holiday. So am I a Derby fan or not? I honestly don't care how others see it. I'm doing what I enjoy most.

As for watching the top sides... I watch Spurs because I find their skill and aggression appealing. I like that kind of football. And I'll also watch a few Sunday League games on the park.

But I just don't enjoy sitting in traffic, standing in a soulless stadium and watching Derby. It's not fun.

I don't owe them anything do I? When they were getting relegated with 11 points and I was singing my head off I didn't feel like they owed me. 

When we lost in the play off final I didn't think I was owed Premier League football like many others did. Including the fans that go every single week now. 

Football really isn't that important to me. I used to live for it. Now I can take it or leave it. If it's good I'll watch it. If it's boring I'll do something more fun or productive. 

Some Saturdays I'd rather be watching WWF. 

My support is much more casual now. But I don't think I understand why that makes you sad or annoyed. 

In fact I'm surprised if there's never been a time in your life where you've thought "this is crap. I'd rather be..." 

But instead of thinking it every week I just did it. Why carry on? That's a genuine question not a rhetorical one. Why continue to do something not fun? 

[Alph]

22 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

But in his last fight, when the opponent was just there to survive (much like QPR), he wasn't very entertaining. I'm sure you'll pay for the next fight though!

Maybe it takes both teams to entertain?

I probably won't unless he can prove his racist comments are fake!!

But you don't take sport by game by game, fight by fight, race by race basis.

I know Anthony Joshua goes in there to knock people out. I know Lewis Hamilton will take risks and push limits. I know Usain Bolt couldn't take a s*** without it being entertaining. I know Barcelona will try to score perfect team goals like Arsenal invincibles and I know Messi will try some ridiculous dribbling that very few can match.

That doesn't mean Joshua will never be boring, Hamilton will never be cautious, Bolt will never be dull, Barca will never lose 5-0 and Messi will never play crap. But i know the chances of being entertained are high.

When I watch Derby, for what I like, I know the chances of enjoying it are low. I know the chances of the stadium rocking are low. 

[archied]

22 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

If it makes you sad why are you bothered if fans turn up? Obviously you are our no 1 supporter who goes to every game and is happy no matter what, which gives you the right to be judgemental against other so fair enough.

i still goto all homes games bar a couple when other commitments get in the way, and a few away games, so whilst obviously not on your level of support still think it’s a chore going to games at the moment.  I don’t mind it when I have had a few, but even then admit to buying an extra pint or two at half time because it’s more entertaining than what’s happening on the field, and makes it a bit more entertaining when I finally make it to my seat.

So I too must apologise to living up to your standards, and will keep an eye out for you at Boro with your no 1 fan badge on.   

Meow ,,,,,, I'm not number one fan ,don't claim to be and at this point get to very few games ,this has changed over the years back and fourth ,spells of not missing anything home or away then spells of hardly getting to any games ,what I can tell you is I was no better a fan when I never missed a game than I was when I could nt go .

the point made was do people go to watch sport or go to watch entertainment ? Take any Saturday and I'm willing to bet that the not so great matches far outweigh the cracking games and before hand it's very difficult to predict with certainty which ones will turn out to be the cracking games beforehand and yet lots of fans are booing a side by half time  (their own team) that's winning games and moving up the table ,, groaning at a young player who hits a bad free kick ??? ,,,, I make no apology for believing that some are losing the plot in terms of what football is away from the sky darlings and the tourists that turn up to watch them

[archied]

25 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I wouldn't say I really care about how high or low I rate on the fan'o'meter. I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games. I've been when we were good, crap and inbetween. I've been part of just a couple of hundred people at a dump of an away ground on a Tuesday night. And I'm the same bloke now that would rather take my daughter's to a play center than go to watch Derby. I'd rather go to work and earn a bit of extra cash for a holiday. So am I a Derby fan or not? I honestly don't care how others see it. I'm doing what I enjoy most.

As for watching the top sides... I watch Spurs because I find their skill and aggression appealing. I like that kind of football. And I'll also watch a few Sunday League games on the park.

But I just don't enjoy sitting in traffic, standing in a soulless stadium and watching Derby. It's not fun.

I don't owe them anything do I? When they were getting relegated with 11 points and I was singing my head off I didn't feel like they owed me. 

When we lost in the play off final I didn't think I was owed Premier League football like many others did. Including the fans that go every single week now. 

Football really isn't that important to me. I used to live for it. Now I can take it or leave it. If it's good I'll watch it. If it's boring I'll do something more fun or productive. 

Some Saturdays I'd rather be watching WWF. 

My support is much more casual now. But I don't think I understand why that makes you sad or annoyed. 

In fact I'm surprised if there's never been a time in your life where you've thought "this is crap. I'd rather be..." 

But instead of thinking it every week I just did it. Why carry on? That's a genuine question not a rhetorical one. Why continue to do something not fun? 

Yep there's times in all lives when going to games doesn't grip us and there's other more important or enjoyable things around that we need or want to be doing and you will never hear me knock anyone for that or pretend it's not the same for me at times but that's not what I'm talking about ,, I believe that we are being brainwashed into thinking sport is only worth watching if it's being played by the very top players to the highest standards and anything below that is dire rubbish ,,, this rowett team isn't a patch on some we've watched at Derby over the years but by god they are very very far from the dire hoofball merchants that some are portraying them as

[cannable]

Also; my earlier post is my view in what it should be what’s on the pitch.

Off the pitch it’s an excuse for six or seven pints with the old man or a day out and a sing-song in some dilapidated shithole that’s stuck in the stone ages such as Villa Park or Hillsborough.

To be honest, on the pitch is just a bonus or an interruption depending on how well you’re doing at the time. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

This is misguided and muddled - muddled over what 'entertainment' means and also trying to define what Derby fans should be.

When I watched Kevin Hector , Alan Durban and Bruce Rioch  years ago I enjoyed their skill with the ball and it was entertaining. The same could be said when watching Eranio and Baiano play their first  home games their skill and the interplay and passing was entertaining and added something distinct from and no less important than the result of the game. 

There are lots of things that contribute to making watching football entertaining winning after falling behind, a 0-0 draw between two skilful sides can be entertaining .It's different to entertainment at a concert etc and that perhaps explains why so many us have kept following the Rams for so long. 

 

Don't understand what you mean by "they are either old Derby fans who have been tainted by this modern idea that football or any other sporting match up can be controlled or contrived"  and "they are not Derby fans"#

 

Get over yourself  You won't define me nor many other fans who i speak to.

 

 

Bang on...just how jumped up and conceited was the original post..."you lot don't conform to my definition of a derby fan,so you aren't"

Just because your definition of entertainment,Archied, is more like watching an episode of trawler wars,doesn't make you more of a fan than those who like the more beautiful parts of the sport.

We all like different things mate,that's human nature and again,get over yourself.

[AdamRam]

39 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

It was a controversial stoppage!

We were on the front foot thoughout the QPR game. 

The point is the opposition's plan was to spoil and therefore stop any entertainment.

So your point is that QPR played boring football to stop us, and that was the reason for it not being entertaining.....irony in there somewhere ?

[Angry Ram]

Is it me or all threads the same nowadays. Roll on the international break. 

[Highgate]

2 hours ago, archied said:

sport is competition and the aim is to win / beat the opponent and that was always where the excitement lay for those who got hooked on a club ,

 

It is for the competitors, but for those just watching the game, it surely has to be entertainment.

As for football needing to be unpredictable, that's true, but the coin toss at the start of the match is utterly unpredictable, but i don't think you could pack 60,000 fans into a stadium to watch someone flipping a coin. We need more, we need to see professional footballers play football like we wish we could play it, To see natural skills combined with athleticism and teamwork. It's more than just unpredictability.

Very simplistically you can divide fans of any club into those who just want to see their team win at all costs and those who want their team to play with style. I may be wrong, but I'd imagine the latter group are also those that enjoy watching football in general, whereas the former group are more likely to switch off if a game doesn't involve their club or country. I think both views are perfectly legitimate ways to follow a team, and it's annoying with when one sort of fan decides that another fan of the same club is somewhat less of a fan, because they don't share the same set of beliefs on how their team should approach the game.

Also, I've never me any fan anywhere who demands that the most expensive players be hogged by fewer and fewer clubs.

 

[AdamRam]

21 minutes ago, archied said:

Meow ,,,,,, I'm not number one fan ,don't claim to be and at this point get to very few games ,this has changed over the years back and fourth ,spells of not missing anything home or away then spells of hardly getting to any games ,what I can tell you is I was no better a fan when I never missed a game than I was when I could nt go .

the point made was do people go to watch sport or go to watch entertainment ? Take any Saturday and I'm willing to bet that the not so great matches far outweigh the cracking games and before hand it's very difficult to predict with certainty which ones will turn out to be the cracking games beforehand and yet lots of fans are booing a side by half time  (their own team) that's winning games and moving up the table ,, groaning at a young player who hits a bad free kick ??? ,,,, I make no apology for believing that some are losing the plot in terms of what football is away from the sky darlings and the tourists that turn up to watch them

I have also been going for many a year....and I don’t believe that it’s any more toxic than it used to be.  I think that places like this don’t help as it’s easier to get together, moan and hide behind a keyboard, but it’s not sky’s fault, we still have more fans going than a lot of season at the BBG.  

So you haven’t attended for whatever reason as well, and yet are happy to label people who also aren’t going into a bucket that now watch WWF or whatever, why are you any different ? And no I’m not interested in why you do and don’t go, you have your reasons as do other fans, can’t see the issue myself?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, Angry Ram said:

Is it me or all threads the same nowadays. Roll on the international break. 

I've noticed quite a few posters are taking a break at the minute...

I can understand why....

 

 

 

[ossieram]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I've noticed quite a few posters are taking a break at the minute...

I can understand why....

 

 

 

Kit kats are on offer in the black Friday sale?

[archied]

9 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I have also been going for many a year....and I don’t believe that it’s any more toxic than it used to be.  I think that places like this don’t help as it’s easier to get together, moan and hide behind a keyboard, but it’s not sky’s fault, we still have more fans going than a lot of season at the BBG.  

So you haven’t attended for whatever reason as well, and yet are happy to label people who also aren’t going into a bucket that now watch WWF or whatever, why are you any different ? And no I’m not interested in why you do and don’t go, you have your reasons as do other fans, can’t see the issue myself?

You may be right but perhaps it's no bad thing to kick back at the happy clapper tag that's fired at anybody seeing anything positive about ,Derby ,mel, ,, rowett ,, 

[Mistaram]

3 hours ago, archied said:

Been mulling this over given our recent debates on here 

is football entertainment ? 

Is it entertainment in the sense of a film ,theatre ,pop concert ,?

you see to me football is sport and all this entertainment fixation is a recent thing brought in by sky and corporate sponsorship,

sport in its truest form is not predictable in terms of results , quality of match,bout or whatever it be ,

what im hearing on here to my mind are not Derby fans ,or sports fans they are either old Derby fans who have been tainted by this modern idea that football or any other sporting match up can be controlled or contrived to be an entertaining spectacle within certain parameters or or they are newer fans who are being led to believe that that is what sport / football is 

it's not 

sport is competition and the aim is to win / beat the opponent and that was always where the excitement lay for those who got hooked on a club ,

we are now being blighted with the casual football watcher who sits in front of sky television and demands to see the most expensive players hogged by fewer and fewer clubs turn out a scripted formula of what is expected to get viewing figures up very very much like WWF,

im a Derby fan , hooked since the age of five , I will watch the odd game on sky as a neutral but that is light entertainment ,there's no heart and soul in it for me , there's no passion , there's no excitement , there's no hurt ,there's no edge of the seat ,it means nothing to me 

it makes me sad to see posters on here who I'm sure believe they are Derby fans allow themselves to become so diluted ,so mislead that they are switching off from THEIR club if they are not Chelsea ,Man U , Man City,arsenal and compounding the problem by being happier to boost the viewing figures and pockets of the sky darlings than support their own club , but hey crack on , give up your season tickets ,stop going and tune in to sky WWF/ fantasy football,

Excellent I've always thought it but could in put it down like you have Archied if you want to see proper fans you need to travel away they are a different breed and I don't mean just our club

[Grimbeard]

As one old-school manager once said: " If it's entertainment that you're after, go to a circus".

[sunnyhill60]

8 hours ago, archied said:

 

is football entertainment ? 

it makes me sad to see posters on here who I'm sure believe they are Derby fans

The question about entertainment has not occurred to me ever since my first game when Harry Storer was manager. Football is lots of things, different for each of us.

Fans don't need your approval or any one else's about the quality of their support.

If you are such a snowflake that you cannot stand to read critical views of the manager an internet forum is not the place for you.

 

[JoetheRam]

To paraphrase Sir Bobby Robson:

"It's not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It's not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It's the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city."

Or at least that's how I used to feel.

Nowadays I mostly think it's a corporate machine designed to extract as much cash out of the paying public as possible, especially at the professional level.

[archied]

4 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

The question about entertainment has not occurred to me ever since my first game when Harry Storer was manager. Football is lots of things, different for each of us.

Fans don't need your approval or any one else's about the quality of their support.

If you are such a snowflake that you cannot stand to read critical views of the manager an internet forum is not the place for you.

 

Where have I questioned the quality of their support or implied that I'm a better supporter and anybody needs my approval? 

Snowflake ???? If I was a snowflake I wouldn't have posted the views or asked the question I have ,,,

the forum is not the place for me ?. No it's not if I just shut up and get depressed listening to some of the tripe posted at times ,

mels the devil and destroying the club ,, rowett is the devil in disguise destroying a fantastic side and building the anti christ of football ,,, seen the posts comparing us to the hated dirty Leeds , seen the posts stating that he is clueless because he doesn't start martin ffs , seen the posts absolutely destroying a player like keough , seen the posts bemoaning players like ince and Hughes being sold with no clue whether they wanted to go to prem or were undermotivared or had become stale,,,

you know what ,it's a forum and if that's their opinion and they want to post it then crack on but don't expect to not be challenged on it ,I feel quite positive about Derby ,quite positive about mel ,quite positive about rowett long term , so you know what I'm going to post that and if I think people's expectations of watching Sport/football played by a club like Derby in the place they are now with the aim of trying to get where they want to be is b******* then I will post it too ,, perhaps people will have to suck up those opinions in the same way we are expected to suck up all the negative stuff 

[Day]

Football is what you want it to be, what you want it to be may not be shared by others, we're all different which I'm secretly pleased about.

3 points, style, percentages, each to their own, I've made no secret that I would like to see Derby County in the Premier League so much so I would withdraw from the FA and League cup's if it was possible, 10 seasons in the Championship is 10 too many. Seeing us compete at the top level is what will float my boat. 

To borrow a line from the late great Bruce Forsyth, "points win prizes", as of now no points are awarded for style or finesse, points are awarded for results, results = prizes.

Don't get me wrong, if I could have my cake and eat it I would, that McClaren season of 13/14 at times was right up there with the legend that is Jim Smith and we was that close it hurts. 

I could sit here and dwell on the past and the if's, but's and maybes but I'm living today, 7th place, level on points with and playing 6th on Saturday, we have a game in hand and lost one in 10.

Priority number 1: Result

Priority number 2: Performance/Style

Without 1, 2 is nothing, without 2 we've still got a chance, we're still contenders for that prize and I'm a happy right now.

I will say this though, I don't think the performances and style are nowhere near as bad as made out, I accept others may say otherwise but that's just me. I'm not old enough to have seen the Clough Snr, the Mackay but I've seen the Smith, Burley and McClaren's, whilst this football might not be reaching those levels it's far far better than the Brown's, Jewell's and controversially Clough's Jnr. Opinions, just opinions.

Not saying it hasn't been bad it times, it has, really bad, but I can't help but feel certain sales and non selections have left a sour taste in some mouths that is proving difficult to move on from, might be wrong but that's how it comes across and Rowett isn't being given a fair ride.

Is it possible to win promotion and be super pretty yes, of course it is, if you can 100% guarantee me that replacing Rowett with X manager would bring that 13/14 season back with the cherry on top I would write his P45 myself now. But there is no guarantees in football and whilst we're winning I'm going to get right behind the bloke and give him all my keyboard letters of support whilst online, the missus does the shouting and screaming at the games for both of us.

We're ok, ticking a long nicely, theres a lot of fans in this league that will look at our club right now and would trade places in a heartbeat but that's football fans for you I guess, the grass is always greener at every club.

It's not all rosy though, for my dream of seeing Derby compete at the top level we need promotion, every season that passes another 3 clubs are cashing in those Premier League cheques, clubs such as Bournemouth have come from a league below to now being in a position where they can blow us out the water financially, that irritates me and I don't mean to be disrespectful in anyway, it's nothing more than frustration built up over a number of years.

I don't want to be drawing or losing to Rotherham when I'm 50 saying to my mate but it's pretty isn't it. Where will the money come from for these pretty players? 

Sacrifice, fight, establish and then compete.

Oh, don't think for a second this is just a desire to see the superstars at Pride Park, in a way it is, but I want to see them heads down walking down the tunnel after Derby have given them a lesson in football from our own superstars. If you're not interested in being the best, may as well give up now as we're just wasting DIY time.

In my opinion anyhow.

[Curtains]

36 minutes ago, David said:

Football is what you want it to be, what you want it to be may not be shared by others, we're all different which I'm secretly pleased about.

3 points, style, percentages, each to their own, I've made no secret that I would like to see Derby County in the Premier League so much so I would withdraw from the FA and League cup's if it was possible, 10 seasons in the Championship is 10 too many. Seeing us compete at the top level is what will float my boat. 

To borrow a line from the late great Bruce Forsyth, "points win prizes", as of now no points are awarded for style or finesse, points are awarded for results, results = prizes.

Don't get me wrong, if I could have my cake and eat it I would, that McClaren season of 13/14 at times was right up there with the legend that is Jim Smith and we was that close it hurts. 

I could sit here and dwell on the past and the if's, but's and maybes but I'm living today, 7th place, level on points with and playing 6th on Saturday, we have a game in hand and lost one in 10.

Priority number 1: Result

Priority number 2: Performance/Style

Without 1, 2 is nothing, without 2 we've still got a chance, we're still contenders for that prize and I'm a happy right now.

I will say this though, I don't think the performances and style are nowhere near as bad as made out, I accept others may say otherwise but that's just me. I'm not old enough to have seen the Clough Snr, the Mackay but I've seen the Smith, Burley and McClaren's, whilst this football might not be reaching those levels it's far far better than the Brown's, Jewell's and controversially Clough's Jnr. Opinions, just opinions.

Not saying it hasn't been bad it times, it has, really bad, but I can't help but feel certain sales and non selections have left a sour taste in some mouths that is proving difficult to move on from, might be wrong but that's how it comes across and Rowett isn't being given a fair ride.

Is it possible to win promotion and be super pretty yes, of course it is, if you can 100% guarantee me that replacing Rowett with X manager would bring that 13/14 season back with the cherry on top I would write his P45 myself now. But there is no guarantees in football and whilst we're winning I'm going to get right behind the bloke and give him all my keyboard letters of support whilst online, the missus does the shouting and screaming at the games for both of us.

We're ok, ticking a long nicely, theres a lot of fans in this league that will look at our club right now and would trade places in a heartbeat but that's football fans for you I guess, the grass is always greener at every club.

It's not all rosy though, for my dream of seeing Derby compete at the top level we need promotion, every season that passes another 3 clubs are cashing in those Premier League cheques, clubs such as Bournemouth have come from a league below to now being in a position where they can blow us out the water financially, that irritates me and I don't mean to be disrespectful in anyway, it's nothing more than frustration built up over a number of years.

I don't want to be drawing or losing to Rotherham when I'm 50 saying to my mate but it's pretty isn't it. Where will the money come from for these pretty players? 

Sacrifice, fight, establish and then compete.

Oh, don't think for a second this is just a desire to see the superstars at Pride Park, in a way it is, but I want to see them heads down walking down the tunnel after Derby have given them a lesson in football from our own superstars. If you're not interested in being the best, may as well give up now as we're just wasting DIY time.

In my opinion anyhow.

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