What is football

[DarkFruitsRam7]

I'm really not that fussed about actually playing in the Premier League. I love the Championship: more matches, less corporate ****, more chance of winning.

But wouldn't you just love to finally do it. After the last 4 seasons of near misses, sackings, bottling, bad luck and general disappointment, wouldn't you just love to finally be able to say that we've actually succeeded. To be able to boast to all your Forest, Burton and Leicester-supporting mates that this was our year, we've finally ******* done something, after years of them ribbing us for our failings.

Thats why I really couldn't give a **** about how we do it. Give me scrappy 1-0 wins until the end of the season if it means we finally hold our nerve and achieve something. The sheer joy of watching the ball hit the net, celebrating with your fellow supporters, going home happy with 3 points in the bag and knowing that you're one step closer to achieving that dream means so much more to me than nice football that doesn't yield results.

13/14 was fun, but ultimately heartbreaking. 14/15 was good for a bit but painful watching us crumble under the pressure. 15/16 was disappointing. 16/17 was just ****. 17/18 could be better. Sitting in and around the play off spots after a poor start gives me hope. Seeing us hold our nerve late on in games gives me hope. Showing a bit of bottle to go on and win games after conceding gives me hope. More than any nice passage of play ever will.

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, David said:

Football is what you want it to be, what you want it to be may not be shared by others, we're all different which I'm secretly pleased about.

3 points, style, percentages, each to their own, I've made no secret that I would like to see Derby County in the Premier League so much so I would withdraw from the FA and League cup's if it was possible, 10 seasons in the Championship is 10 too many. Seeing us compete at the top level is what will float my boat. 

To borrow a line from the late great Bruce Forsyth, "points win prizes", as of now no points are awarded for style or finesse, points are awarded for results, results = prizes.

Don't get me wrong, if I could have my cake and eat it I would, that McClaren season of 13/14 at times was right up there with the legend that is Jim Smith and we was that close it hurts. 

I could sit here and dwell on the past and the if's, but's and maybes but I'm living today, 7th place, level on points with and playing 6th on Saturday, we have a game in hand and lost one in 10.

Priority number 1: Result

Priority number 2: Performance/Style

Without 1, 2 is nothing, without 2 we've still got a chance, we're still contenders for that prize and I'm a happy right now.

I will say this though, I don't think the performances and style are nowhere near as bad as made out, I accept others may say otherwise but that's just me. I'm not old enough to have seen the Clough Snr, the Mackay but I've seen the Smith, Burley and McClaren's, whilst this football might not be reaching those levels it's far far better than the Brown's, Jewell's and controversially Clough's Jnr. Opinions, just opinions.

Not saying it hasn't been bad it times, it has, really bad, but I can't help but feel certain sales and non selections have left a sour taste in some mouths that is proving difficult to move on from, might be wrong but that's how it comes across and Rowett isn't being given a fair ride.

Is it possible to win promotion and be super pretty yes, of course it is, if you can 100% guarantee me that replacing Rowett with X manager would bring that 13/14 season back with the cherry on top I would write his P45 myself now. But there is no guarantees in football and whilst we're winning I'm going to get right behind the bloke and give him all my keyboard letters of support whilst online, the missus does the shouting and screaming at the games for both of us.

We're ok, ticking a long nicely, theres a lot of fans in this league that will look at our club right now and would trade places in a heartbeat but that's football fans for you I guess, the grass is always greener at every club.

It's not all rosy though, for my dream of seeing Derby compete at the top level we need promotion, every season that passes another 3 clubs are cashing in those Premier League cheques, clubs such as Bournemouth have come from a league below to now being in a position where they can blow us out the water financially, that irritates me and I don't mean to be disrespectful in anyway, it's nothing more than frustration built up over a number of years.

I don't want to be drawing or losing to Rotherham when I'm 50 saying to my mate but it's pretty isn't it. Where will the money come from for these pretty players? 

Sacrifice, fight, establish and then compete.

Oh, don't think for a second this is just a desire to see the superstars at Pride Park, in a way it is, but I want to see them heads down walking down the tunnel after Derby have given them a lesson in football from our own superstars. If you're not interested in being the best, may as well give up now as we're just wasting DIY time.

In my opinion anyhow.

Agree that results come over performances. However with this squad the minimum we should be achieving is top 6 imo, so sacrificing entertainment for results is only acceptable if we finish in top 6 minimum then ? Or if we dont make it do we move the goalposts again?

[RadioactiveWaste]

Are we heading towards a conclusion that echoes Andy Reid's seminal "i eat therefore i am" thesis ?

 

[Leicester Ram]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

Post of the year 

Brown nose

[Day]

5 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Agree that results come over performances. However with this squad the minimum we should be achieving is top 6 imo, so sacrificing entertainment for results is only acceptable if we finish in top 6 minimum then ? Or if we dont make it do we move the goalposts again?

If we don't finish top 6 we have neither the results or the performances, without a doubt it's time to start to ask what is this manager bringing to the club. I'm with you, this squad is top 6 material, probably not comfortably but I've seen worse and I actually think it's been a poor league so far this year, Wolves aside there isn't anything that's really standing out, to miss out would be seriously disappointing. 

I don't think it's completely black and white though, finish 7th you're gone, we may finish 7th and miss out on goal difference but had horrible luck with injuries, played the last 3 months with a backup keeper, no recognised right back or winger etc. Is that moving the goalposts or not? I think you can review the season fairly without claiming poor excuses.

Regardless of contract's all managers are reviewed in the summer, Rowett no different, in fact that's rubbish as they are constantly under review but for me a full season is when you can really look at a manager and judge the job he's done, for all the stick Rowett has had he says himself this is not the finished article and will know full well this next transfer window is important if he wants to stay in the job beyond May.

[VulcanRam]

16 hours ago, Alpha said:

I wouldn't say I really care about how high or low I rate on the fan'o'meter. I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games. I've been when we were good, crap and inbetween. I've been part of just a couple of hundred people at a dump of an away ground on a Tuesday night. And I'm the same bloke now that would rather take my daughter's to a play center than go to watch Derby. I'd rather go to work and earn a bit of extra cash for a holiday. So am I a Derby fan or not? I honestly don't care how others see it. I'm doing what I enjoy most.

As for watching the top sides... I watch Spurs because I find their skill and aggression appealing. I like that kind of football. And I'll also watch a few Sunday League games on the park.

But I just don't enjoy sitting in traffic, standing in a soulless stadium and watching Derby. It's not fun.

I don't owe them anything do I? When they were getting relegated with 11 points and I was singing my head off I didn't feel like they owed me. 

When we lost in the play off final I didn't think I was owed Premier League football like many others did. Including the fans that go every single week now. 

Football really isn't that important to me. I used to live for it. Now I can take it or leave it. If it's good I'll watch it. If it's boring I'll do something more fun or productive. 

Some Saturdays I'd rather be watching WWF. 

My support is much more casual now. But I don't think I understand why that makes you sad or annoyed. 

In fact I'm surprised if there's never been a time in your life where you've thought "this is crap. I'd rather be..." 

But instead of thinking it every week I just did it. Why carry on? That's a genuine question not a rhetorical one. Why continue to do something not fun? 

Great post. Saved me the trouble of writing exactly the same.

[archied]

5 hours ago, David said:

Football is what you want it to be, what you want it to be may not be shared by others, we're all different which I'm secretly pleased about.

3 points, style, percentages, each to their own, I've made no secret that I would like to see Derby County in the Premier League so much so I would withdraw from the FA and League cup's if it was possible, 10 seasons in the Championship is 10 too many. Seeing us compete at the top level is what will float my boat. 

To borrow a line from the late great Bruce Forsyth, "points win prizes", as of now no points are awarded for style or finesse, points are awarded for results, results = prizes.

Don't get me wrong, if I could have my cake and eat it I would, that McClaren season of 13/14 at times was right up there with the legend that is Jim Smith and we was that close it hurts. 

I could sit here and dwell on the past and the if's, but's and maybes but I'm living today, 7th place, level on points with and playing 6th on Saturday, we have a game in hand and lost one in 10.

Priority number 1: Result

Priority number 2: Performance/Style

Without 1, 2 is nothing, without 2 we've still got a chance, we're still contenders for that prize and I'm a happy right now.

I will say this though, I don't think the performances and style are nowhere near as bad as made out, I accept others may say otherwise but that's just me. I'm not old enough to have seen the Clough Snr, the Mackay but I've seen the Smith, Burley and McClaren's, whilst this football might not be reaching those levels it's far far better than the Brown's, Jewell's and controversially Clough's Jnr. Opinions, just opinions.

Not saying it hasn't been bad it times, it has, really bad, but I can't help but feel certain sales and non selections have left a sour taste in some mouths that is proving difficult to move on from, might be wrong but that's how it comes across and Rowett isn't being given a fair ride.

Is it possible to win promotion and be super pretty yes, of course it is, if you can 100% guarantee me that replacing Rowett with X manager would bring that 13/14 season back with the cherry on top I would write his P45 myself now. But there is no guarantees in football and whilst we're winning I'm going to get right behind the bloke and give him all my keyboard letters of support whilst online, the missus does the shouting and screaming at the games for both of us.

We're ok, ticking a long nicely, theres a lot of fans in this league that will look at our club right now and would trade places in a heartbeat but that's football fans for you I guess, the grass is always greener at every club.

It's not all rosy though, for my dream of seeing Derby compete at the top level we need promotion, every season that passes another 3 clubs are cashing in those Premier League cheques, clubs such as Bournemouth have come from a league below to now being in a position where they can blow us out the water financially, that irritates me and I don't mean to be disrespectful in anyway, it's nothing more than frustration built up over a number of years.

I don't want to be drawing or losing to Rotherham when I'm 50 saying to my mate but it's pretty isn't it. Where will the money come from for these pretty players? 

Sacrifice, fight, establish and then compete.

Oh, don't think for a second this is just a desire to see the superstars at Pride Park, in a way it is, but I want to see them heads down walking down the tunnel after Derby have given them a lesson in football from our own superstars. If you're not interested in being the best, may as well give up now as we're just wasting DIY time.

In my opinion anyhow.

Great post 

[cheron85]

23 hours ago, archied said:

Been mulling this over given our recent debates on here 

is football entertainment ? 

Is it entertainment in the sense of a film ,theatre ,pop concert ,?

Playing football is sport - Watching sport is done for entertainment...

Acting is a job/hobby - Watching it is done for entertainment

Playing a musical instrument is a job/hobby - Watching it is done for entertainment

I could go on I imagine

23 hours ago, archied said:

im a Derby fan , hooked since the age of five , I will watch the odd game on sky as a neutral but that is light entertainment ,there's no heart and soul in it for me , there's no passion , there's no excitement , there's no hurt ,there's no edge of the seat ,it means nothing to me 

it makes me sad to see posters on here who I'm sure believe they are Derby fans allow themselves to become so diluted ,so mislead that they are switching off from THEIR club if they are not Chelsea ,Man U , Man City,arsenal and compounding the problem by being happier to boost the viewing figures and pockets of the sky darlings than support their own club , but hey crack on , give up your season tickets ,stop going and tune in to sky WWF/ fantasy football,

I'm a season ticket holder and have been since I was 6 - I live 120 miles away and still make it to most home games plus a smattering of away games

I've actually got to the point where I find other football difficult to watch UNLESS it's entertaining - I barely bother to watch England any more because it's dull - I would only watch a West Brom game if you paid me - I watch MOTD some weeks but in truth I only half watch it - Most of the time I'm doing something else as well (dual screening and all that)

Having made a significant emotional, financial and time-based commitment to Derby over the last 26 years I'd rather you didn't suggest I only 'believe' myself a fan because I'd like to see us play some more entertaining football - Like we did under Jim Smith, George Burley, Steve McClaren and (to an extent) Nigel Clough - I think Rowett may be able to give it to us, I think he certainly seems to want us to play better than we have, but at the moment we're not there

 

Oh and having just read @David's post I would say that I don't mind a grind-out result every now and then - I will 100% take that tomorrow - Would just like 2/3rds or so of our games to be playing some interesting, attacking, exciting play

[archied]

12 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Playing football is sport - Watching sport is done for entertainment...

Acting is a job/hobby - Watching it is done for entertainment

Playing a musical instrument is a job/hobby - Watching it is done for entertainment

I could go on I imagine

I'm a season ticket holder and have been since I was 6 - I live 120 miles away and still make it to most home games plus a smattering of away games

I've actually got to the point where I find other football difficult to watch UNLESS it's entertaining - I barely bother to watch England any more because it's dull - I would only watch a West Brom game if you paid me - I watch MOTD some weeks but in truth I only half watch it - Most of the time I'm doing something else as well (dual screening and all that)

Having made a significant emotional, financial and time-based commitment to Derby over the last 26 years I'd rather you didn't suggest I only 'believe' myself a fan because I'd like to see us play some more entertaining football - Like we did under Jim Smith, George Burley, Steve McClaren and (to an extent) Nigel Clough - I think Rowett may be able to give it to us, I think he certainly seems to want us to play better than we have, but at the moment we're not there

 

Oh and having just read @David's post I would say that I don't mind a grind-out result every now and then - I will 100% take that tomorrow - Would just like 2/3rds or so of our games to be playing some interesting, attacking, exciting play

But you've proved the point ,,, your attachment to Derby is far far more than just wanting to be entertained ,, yes we all want to see entertaining football ( what constitutes that to all differs ) but its sport and it don't happen all the time , my post was in regard to the view that if we are not playing entertains football all the time there's no point going to games or watching 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

Football is opium for the masses. It keeps them occuupied and out of mischief on a Saturday afternoon so that they don't get don't get any funny ideas, like starting a revolution and turning Mel Morris's computer business or Sam Longson's plant hire company into a workers' collective.