What if McClaren had never been sacked ?

[Alph]

23 minutes ago, 1977 Ram Raider said:

No one can deny the football under Mac was the best since the Jim Smith days. I couldn't wait for match day, good football and the team just worked so well. The togetherness and enjoyment of the players playing attacking football was a joy to watch. Unfortunately Mels axe was swinging and he made the biggest mistake possible. IMO if we had kept hold of Mac we'd be playing premiership football this season.

Or it probably wouldn't be boring to go and watch Championship games at least

[Angry Ram]

11 hours ago, Alpha said:

 

As usual you haven't got a clue. Have you always talked rubbish or is it something that you developed to expert levels over time?

 

 

Come on Alpha, that's a personal insult. You are better poster than that. 

[Jack Willow]

1 hour ago, 1977 Ram Raider said:

No one can deny the football under Mac was the best since...

And the football under George Burley wasn't of the same quality?

He also achieved Play-Off.

[Alph]

46 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Come on Alpha, that's a personal insult. You are better poster than that. 

Just gets boring. Same old rubbish every thread. Constant agenda and ridiculous extravagant claims that not only have no basis but can actually be argued against using facts. You never get a response from him or his 2 clones. They just slither into another thread and start poisoning that with the same old garbage.

And it is garbage. None of them have any sense of reasoning. They can't rationalise anything. 

The facts are there. Actual stats. That's besides what anyone can see with their eyes. 

Read his post. Tell me how he typed that out without seeing the irony or hypocrisy?

He hasn't he? If he has then he's stupid. If he hasn't then it's a wind up.

It's boring trying to read through a sensible thread and you've got one of the three slagging off (that's exactly what it is) people have have done alright for us. It's not criticising. It's slagging off like a Forest fan would. Making stuff up to slag off servants of their own club.

I know curtains gets some hammer on here. But he does eventually reason with you. He does back up why he feels the way he does etc. Yeah, he can ruffle some feathers for a bit first but there's a manner about him that makes him worth listening and speaking too. 

Not like 3 other posters who's constant drone pollutes every thread and gets quoted 20 times taking up 10 pages of arguing. Only for them to shout a lot, say nothing and slither off to another thread. 

Nobody else does it. All these people with all different views but they don't talk complete pooh on a regular basis. 

Fancy you, Angry Ram, beinh peacekeeper. You need to change your username, brother

 

[Alph]

3 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

And the football under George Burley wasn't of the same quality?

He also achieved Play-Off.

Agree with that

Really exciting matches. Loved it.

But by the standards set by the Mighty Derby.... a complete failure of a season.

It was a success. It was a successful attempt at improving, entertaining, drawing fans back and giving us a real hope for the following season. 

Shame about Burley

 

 

[LazloW]

I'm intrigued... who are 'the three'!?  (Or at least the other two?)

FWIW I wouldn't have sacked SM on either occasion.  The first sacking did come off a woeful end to the season but still a relative success after the seasons before it (13/14 apart obviously).  If Newcastle came calling, then so be it bit never understood why we pre-empted it.  

The second one was all about stopping GR going to Norwich, I'm sure of it.   We weren't playing fantastically but after the start we'd had, it was still miraculous to be where we were.

Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't been sacked though?  Not completely convinced we still wouldn't be in this division, but as already stated I imagine there'd be a bit more entertainment... 

Still, I have (blind) faith that GR will soon put his money where his mouth is, so to speak.  

[Ninos]

2 hours ago, 1977 Ram Raider said:

No one can deny the football under Mac was the best since the Jim Smith days. I couldn't wait for match day, good football and the team just worked so well. The togetherness and enjoyment of the players playing attacking football was a joy to watch. Unfortunately Mels axe was swinging and he made the biggest mistake possible. IMO if we had kept hold of Mac we'd be playing premiership football this season.

Total pants. The longer we had Mcclaren the worse we would have got just like everywhere he's been. He had his chance. He blew chunks. He bottled every key moment and with excellent players. We move on.

[Ninos]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Come on Alpha, that's a personal insult. You are better poster than that. 

ya think ? lol .

 

31 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Just gets boring. Same old rubbish every thread. Constant agenda and ridiculous extravagant claims that not only have no basis but can actually be argued against using facts. You never get a response from him or his 2 clones. They just slither into another thread and start poisoning that with the same old garbage.

And it is garbage. None of them have any sense of reasoning. They can't rationalise anything. 

The facts are there. Actual stats. That's besides what anyone can see with their eyes. 

Read his post. Tell me how he typed that out without seeing the irony or hypocrisy?

He hasn't he? If he has then he's stupid. If he hasn't then it's a wind up.

It's boring trying to read through a sensible thread and you've got one of the three slagging off (that's exactly what it is) people have have done alright for us. It's not criticising. It's slagging off like a Forest fan would. Making stuff up to slag off servants of their own club.

I know curtains gets some hammer on here. But he does eventually reason with you. He does back up why he feels the way he does etc. Yeah, he can ruffle some feathers for a bit first but there's a manner about him that makes him worth listening and speaking too. 

Not like 3 other posters who's constant drone pollutes every thread and gets quoted 20 times taking up 10 pages of arguing. Only for them to shout a lot, say nothing and slither off to another thread. 

Nobody else does it. All these people with all different views but they don't talk complete pooh on a regular basis. 

Fancy you, Angry Ram, beinh peacekeeper. You need to change your username, brother

 

Who's the stubborn insult hurler brother ? It's you. It's just opinions at the end of the day. Go buy a rubber duck take a bubble bath and learn to accept different views from your own, there's a boy. 

err, and why does he need to change his username brother? He's angry when he sees injustice in the football club, but he's a Ram, that a damn cool name - because unlike you he focuses on Derby County not on forum members. Take a lesson.

[Ninos]

39 minutes ago, LazloW said:

I'm intrigued... who are 'the three'!?  (Or at least the other two?)

FWIW I wouldn't have sacked SM on either occasion.  The first sacking did come off a woeful end to the season but still a relative success after the seasons before it (13/14 apart obviously).  If Newcastle came calling, then so be it bit never understood why we pre-empted it.  

The second one was all about stopping GR going to Norwich, I'm sure of it.   We weren't playing fantastically but after the start we'd had, it was still miraculous to be where we were.

Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't been sacked though?  Not completely convinced we still wouldn't be in this division, but as already stated I imagine there'd be a bit more entertainment... 

Still, I have (blind) faith that GR will soon put his money where his mouth is, so to speak.  

Who cares who alpha likes or doesn't like.

Focusing on Mac I want to clarify or repeat my thoughts from yonks ago:

Mel was right to sack him the first time. But - my view or rationale was different from most fans.  

At the time everyone was all in a hissy fit about how his "head was turned" to Newcastle etc etc. people apparently wanted his head because he wasn't openly denying an interest etc. for me I looked at it like a job promotion - he was totally entitled to send his CV to a premier league club - what was wrong with that? Don't we all do that ok our professional careers? Angle for a better job at a bigger and better company while at our current job? The criticism was unfair and over the top. BUT, and here's the big BUT (no pun intended), your performance in your current job cannot drop to unacceptable levels. All of a sudden he was losing and was clueless in stopping a rot, excuse after excuse and it was clear that with an excellent corps of players we were getting worse. It was embarrassing what we were seeing on the pitch, regardless of his excuses. And now he'd failed to deliver at a key time - AGAIN. On that basis we needed to get rid of him - so for me it was what he did on the field that merited his sacking not all the other stuff which the fans and media were obsessed with.

and so that boiled down to / he may have well played some good attacking stuff but in the end he was found out as a poor manager. Bye bye. And his Newcastle performance proved further the level of his ineptness - actually watched a lot of their games and his decision making was that of a scared mouse. Boom they get relegated. 

That's what I think.

Mac2 was a mistake. Don't look back, go forward. He was always a fun good coach but never a good tactician or manager.

[TheDeadlySaul]

28 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Who cares who alpha likes or doesn't like.

Focusing on Mac I want to clarify or repeat my thoughts from yonks ago:

Mel was right to sack him the first time. But - my view or rationale was different from most fans.  

At the time everyone was all in a hissy fit about how his "head was turned" to Newcastle etc etc. people apparently wanted his head because he wasn't openly denying an interest etc. for me I looked at it like a job promotion - he was totally entitled to send his CV to a premier league club - what was wrong with that? Don't we all do that ok our professional careers? Angle for a better job at a bigger and better company while at our current job? The criticism was unfair and over the top. BUT, and here's the big BUT (no pun intended), your performance in your current job cannot drop to unacceptable levels. All of a sudden he was losing and was clueless in stopping a rot, excuse after excuse and it was clear that with an excellent corps of players we were getting worse. It was embarrassing what we were seeing on the pitch, regardless of his excuses. And now he'd failed to deliver at a key time - AGAIN. On that basis we needed to get rid of him - so for me it was what he did on the field that merited his sacking not all the other stuff which the fans and media were obsessed with.

and so that boiled down to / he may have well played some good attacking stuff but in the end he was found out as a poor manager. Bye bye. And his Newcastle performance proved further the level of his ineptness - actually watched a lot of their games and his decision making was that of a scared mouse. Boom they get relegated. 

That's what I think.

Mac2 was a mistake. Don't look back, go forward. He was always a fun good coach but never a good tactician or manager.

In that season where we collapsed we lost 7 key players in our system to injury. Our 2 only left sided CB's in Buxton and Whitbread, our 3 only holding midfielders in Thorne, Mascarell and Eustace, plus our only 2 strikers in Martin and Bent. The system relied on playing the ball from the back, a holding midfielder protecting the back four and allowing the midfield to advance and a striker linking up play with the wingers and the advancing midfielders. We had lost all the key players to it! So was it a surprise our season collapsed? 

Do you also think if Chelsea last season had lost Costa, Hazard, Cahill, Kante, Matic, Azpilecueta and Alonso they would've won the league? Probably not, that is why the criticism Mac gets for issues that were out of his hand like injured players is just stupid. 

[1967Ram]

3 hours ago, 1977 Ram Raider said:

No one can deny the football under Mac was the best since the Jim Smith days. I couldn't wait for match day, good football and the team just worked so well. The togetherness and enjoyment of the players playing attacking football was a joy to watch. Unfortunately Mels axe was swinging and he made the biggest mistake possible. IMO if we had kept hold of Mac we'd be playing premiership football this season.

We may have been, we may not have been. BUT we would have been playing better football IMO.

[Ninos]

26 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

In that season where we collapsed we lost 7 key players in our system to injury. Our 2 only left sided CB's in Buxton and Whitbread, our 3 only holding midfielders in Thorne, Mascarell and Eustace, plus our only 2 strikers in Martin and Bent. The system relied on playing the ball from the back, a holding midfielder protecting the back four and allowing the midfield to advance and a striker linking up play with the wingers and the advancing midfielders. We had lost all the key players to it! So was it a surprise our season collapsed? 

Do you also think if Chelsea last season had lost Costa, Hazard, Cahill, Kante, Matic, Azpilecueta and Alonso they would've won the league? Probably not, that is why the criticism Mac gets for issues that were out of his hand like injured players is just stupid. 

And that's one thing he did - blame injuries as the reason. He still had a batch of very strong, fit players. Excuses, always excuses with McClaren. Didn't buy his argument then and don't buy it now.

But assuming you're right and injuries really were the major factor in hindering his system, and he'd lost players key to his one and only system and couldn't adapt, then whose fault is that? He couldn't adapt, is that it?

The Chelsea analogy sounds convincing on its face but this isn't the Premier League and we aren't talking about losing Champions League calibre players. In this league, player quality is relatively comparable. Quality is a factor yes but heart, desire, and resilience make a big difference. And the manager inspires or he doesn't. He didn't.

[TheDeadlySaul]

3 minutes ago, Ninos said:

And that's one thing he did - blame injuries as the reason. He still had a batch of very strong, fit players. Excuses, always excuses with McClaren. Didn't buy his argument then and don't buy it now.

But assuming you're right and injuries really were the major factor in hindering his system, and he'd lost players key to his one and only system and couldn't adapt, then whose fault is that? He couldn't adapt, is that it?

The Chelsea analogy sounds convincing on its face but this isn't the Premier League and we aren't talking about losing Champions League calibre players. In this league, player quality is relatively comparable. Quality is a factor yes but heart, desire, and resilience make a big difference. And the manager inspires or he doesn't. He didn't.

Do you really think changing our system entirely from one we had been using for about a season would've been easy? We had bought players that had fit that system, moulded the team around it and were succeeding with it. Derby fans seem to believe that all it would take is a couple of training sessions to change the system and hope the players adapt as successfully as they did before. McClaren has his faults, but not being a wizard isn't one of them. 

Also if the Chelsea one isn't comparable because the players are champions league quality I'll use the same logic for Newcastle last season. If they had lost Gayle, Mitrovic, Ritchie, Shelvey, Hayden, Clarke and Lascelles they would've won the league? Probably not. 

[Mostyn6]

3 hours ago, Alpha said:

All these people with all different views but they don't talk complete pooh on a regular basis. 

Hmm, feels like a challenge! 

[Alph]

4 hours ago, Ninos said:

ya think ? lol .

 

Who's the stubborn insult hurler brother ? It's you. It's just opinions at the end of the day. Go buy a rubber duck take a bubble bath and learn to accept different views from your own, there's a boy. 

err, and why does he need to change his username brother? He's angry when he sees injustice in the football club, but he's a Ram, that a damn cool name - because unlike you he focuses on Derby County not on forum members. Take a lesson.

Funny how you can respond to this. You miss the stats and figures again? 

[Ninos]

25 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Funny how you can respond to this. You miss the stats and figures again? 

Go enjoy the match brother. It's on right now. Live a little. 

[Kernow]

We'd probably have 83% possession and be losing 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, Kernow said:

We'd probably have 83% possession and be losing 

At least it would be by 7 goals to 6 and I wouldn't be drifting off to sleep

[Alph]

53 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Go enjoy the match brother. It's on right now. Live a little. 

As I thought.