Glenn Whelan - signed for Villa

[DCFC1388]

2 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Is Glenn Whelan really adding anything new to that? Seems like more of the same to me.

Yes he would be as we don't have anyone like him in the team and have needed someone of this type since Eustace left. 

[Leicester Ram]

I also really disagree with Eustace comparisons.

Eustace was a different situation. He came into a young team and midfield, he was one of the only old heads in the squad. The squad didn't have anywhere near the experience that it has now, so Eustace added something new.

Bringing in Whelan now wouldn't really add anything new to the squad. I've already listed off all the experienced players we have, the list of young players with potential is much shorter.

And who did Eustace ultimately lose his job to? A young lad on loan from West Brom. Talking of DM's, I wonder where he got to...

[Highgate]

2 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I was less questioning Whelan's character and more questioning the instant assumption that aging, white players are always seen as great characters or model pro's. 

Chris Baird, for all the good he's done for the club and the great pro he is, was a disruptive influence in 15/16. He flipped the v to the east stand and lost ten captaincy quick. I believe it came out that he apologised to Mel for the way he handled himself when he officially lost the club captaincy to Keogh after Clement left.

You'd have got similar glowing reports about Baird from WBA and Fulham from his time there, but it didn't work out. I'm mainly airing a frustration with the desire to get in 'good characters' and leaders when I think we already have a lot of them at the club.

Weve literally spent two years bringing in experienced pro's instead of younger players. Carson, Shackell, Johnson, Baird, Warnock, Bent, Pearce, Nugent, Davies. Is Glenn Whelan really adding anything new to that? Seems like more of the same to me.

I think character is the first thing a manager should look for in a player, if they are not the right sort 'mentally' then they are probably not going to benefit the team in the long run. But it's not enough...they need talent too, and be better than what you already have. I can't see Whelan adding too much to our squad if he were signed.

Were people making an instant assumption though, or were they basing their views on what they know about a player who has captained club and country and always given his all over a long and unspectacular career? 

[TuffLuff]

51 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I also really disagree with Eustace comparisons.

Eustace was a different situation. He came into a young team and midfield, he was one of the only old heads in the squad. The squad didn't have anywhere near the experience that it has now, so Eustace added something new.

Bringing in Whelan now wouldn't really add anything new to the squad. I've already listed off all the experienced players we have, the list of young players with potential is much shorter.

And who did Eustace ultimately lose his job to? A young lad on loan from West Brom. Talking of DM's, I wonder where he got to...

But you can look at it another way and say Eustace was our only midfielder who was different, in that he was willing to 'get stuck in' or win the ball and then lay it off to the better players. To me, that's what we lack now (our closest is Johnson but he's still playing out of position when doing that role). I thought we've been crying out for players with a bit of grit for most of last season? I'd be quite happy to see this one happen, even if it's a bit of cover for Thorne, but the real job is to cut an already saturated midfield beforehand

[StringerBell]

7 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

Why do people keep thinking Whelan is a replacement for Hughes? Purely down to the fact the both player centre mid?

We have needed someone like Whelan ever since Eustace left and that was with Hughes still in the squads so I doubt this is a replacement but i'm sure if Hughes is the only CM to go and Whelan is the only CM to come in people will say Whelan is his replacement despite their differences in style.

When people who've seen him play a fair bit are telling you he is nothing like Eustace don't you think you're doing the same thing you're questioning others for doing regarding Hughes? Or is he a direct Eustace replacement for you?

[StringerBell]

The best thing about Eustace IMO are qualities that Johnson also has. Wins his 50/50's on the ground and in the air. Shoulders people off the ball. They were both 6 feet wide. That's great in the championship. Does Whelan do this? 

Johnson isn't a traditional defensive midfielder but I don't think Eustace was either until his legs started to go. 

 

[DCFC1388]

1 minute ago, StringerBell said:

When people who've seen him play a fair bit are telling you he is nothing like Eustace don't you think you're doing the same thing you're questioning others for doing regarding Hughes? Or is he a direct Eustace replacement for you?

In terms of being an experienced, defensive minded leader who plays in the holding role yes he is a direct replacement for Eustace, do we have anyone else like this in our squad currently? I don't think so.

My point with the whole Hughes situation is that for a few years people have said we haven't replaced Eustace, now we are being linked with that type of player he is being seen as Hughes' replacement purely due to speculation Hughes may leave in the same summer. 

[Sparkle]

Do we need a Eustace type of replacement? Hasn't that that time frame passed now? Oh and he was known as useless when we had lesser players playing in the middle and up front

[StringerBell]

18 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

In terms of being an experienced, defensive minded leader who plays in the holding role yes he is a direct replacement for Eustace, do we have anyone else like this in our squad currently? I don't think so.

My point with the whole Hughes situation is that for a few years people have said we haven't replaced Eustace, now we are being linked with that type of player he is being seen as Hughes' replacement purely due to speculation Hughes may leave in the same summer. 

I agree he isn't necessarily a replacement for Hughes but I'm not sure he's a long sought after replacement for Eustace either, from what has been said. Omar Mascarell was seen as replacement for Thorne. He wasn't though as he didn't have the qualities Thorne and Eustace had that are suited to the championship. Hughes made a better DCM than Mascarell and would be even better with 2 DCM's like Whelan plays. Whelans been doing it in the top flight which is a different kettle of fish. 

Some people are saying he'd be like Eustace and others say Whelan isn't a Eustace type of player. I haven't seem enough of him. He looks like he likes a tackle but he's not the big unit that Eustace/Thorne/Johnson are. He's experienced I'll give you that. 

[StringerBell]

4 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Do we need a Eustace type of replacement? Hasn't that that time frame passed now? Oh and he was known as useless when we had lesser players playing in the middle and up front

I'd say making Eustace comparisons is relevant provided we play the 4-3-3 we played when Eustace was here. There's no signs we'll be doing that.

[DCFC1388]

5 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

I agree he isn't necessarily a replacement for Hughes but I'm not sure he's a long sought after replacement for Eustace either, from what has been said. Omar Mascarell was seen as replacement for Thorne. He wasn't though as he didn't have the qualities Thorne and Eustace had that are suited to the championship. Hughes made a better DCM than Mascarell and would be even better with 2 DCM's like Whelan plays. Whelans been doing it in the top flight which is a different kettle of fish. 

Some people are saying he'd be like Eustace and others say Whelan isn't a Eustace type of player. I haven't seem enough of him. He looks like he likes a tackle but he's not the big unit that Eustace/Thorne/Johnson are. He's experienced I'll give you that. 

From what I have seen of him he is a tough tackler and someone who breaks play up then passes to someone else to start attacks...that would suit playing in a 2 alongside a Hughes/Thorne really. Build wise he isn't like Eustace but everything else he is similar imo...players don't have to be built big to play that role, look at players like sidwell, bridcutt + barton who have all played that role well at this level and they aren't well built.

[StringerBell]

1 minute ago, DCFC1388 said:

From what I have seen of him he is a tough tackler and someone who breaks play up then passes to someone else to start attacks...that would suit playing in a 2 alongside a Hughes/Thorne really. Build wise he isn't like Eustace but everything else he is similar imo...players don't have to be built big to play that role, look at players like sidwell, bridcutt + barton who have all played that role well at this level and they aren't well built.

True. Also Clayton and Leadbitter. I'm more keen on the move if it's a  midfield two. I think Eustace/Thorne/Johnsons size and strength was a big part of their game in our 4-3-3 formation though and I'm not sold on Whelan if he'd be coming to play in that role.

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

The best thing about Eustace IMO are qualities that Johnson also has. Wins his 50/50's on the ground and in the air. Shoulders people off the ball. They were both 6 feet wide. That's great in the championship. Does Whelan do this? 

Johnson isn't a traditional defensive midfielder but I don't think Eustace was either until his legs started to go. 

 

I agree that that Johnson has those abilities in common with Eustace but I think he lacks a lot of the abilities that Eustace had that made him a good DM. Namely positional sense, anticipation, tactical discipline, marshalling the midfield in defence and being reliable in possession. 

 

[StringerBell]

10 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I agree that that Johnson has those abilities in common with Eustace but I think he lacks a lot of the abilities that Eustace had that made him a good DM. Namely positional sense, anticipation, tactical discipline, marshalling the midfield in defence and being reliable in possession. 

 

You'll get to see those other factors a lot more than me as I don't get to see the Rams live as much as I'd like to. I'd strongly agree with that last one though. He plays some good balls actually, but also too many loose passes and getting tackled in dangerous areas (a fit Thorne really is the complete package playing that position).

From what I'd have Johnson as our best option as a single DCM after Thorne though. When Johnson first started playing that role in any scrappy game our central defenders hardly had to do anything, Johnson just mopped everything up by winning practically every 50/50.

A lot of this probably won't matter as I don't think we'll play the 4-3-3 now. Which I think is a shame. If Rowett wants to press high though you never know, we did that in McClarens first stint.

[DCFC1388]

51 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

True. Also Clayton and Leadbitter. I'm more keen on the move if it's a  midfield two. I think Eustace/Thorne/Johnsons size and strength was a big part of their game in our 4-3-3 formation though and I'm not sold on Whelan if he'd be coming to play in that role.

I personally think Rowett will go for a 4231 which would for me would suit any combo of Thorne Whelan Johnson, I am interested to see the role Rowett plays Johnson as he says he would prefer to play him further up the pitch but in a 4231 that would may be either no.10 role or wide left.

[StringerBell]

40 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I personally think Rowett will go for a 4231 which would for me would suit any combo of Thorne Whelan Johnson, I am interested to see the role Rowett plays Johnson as he says he would prefer to play him further up the pitch but in a 4231 that would may be either no.10 role or wide left.

Yeah I was hoping he'd means further up in a 4-3-3 but then I don't think he'll play 4-3-3.  I'm not sure he's got the legs of a Hendrick/Bryson from 13/14 type of player now though.

But if its 4-2-3-1 then it'd have to be one of the midfield 2 for me. I hope the experiment of playing Johnson wide left is over.

[DCFC1388]

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/glenn-whelan-could-tip-the-balance-for-any-club-seeking-top-six-finish/story-30398137-detail/story.html

I like the following quote in that article - 

"Glenn Whelan would be a huge loss on and off the field at Stoke after nine-and-a-half years of sterling service as a defensive midfielder with a nose for danger - but also as a natural-born leader who isn't afraid to 'call it' when things are not going well," 

[flamin]

good choice in my opinion

 

[Day]

 

[Srg]

God this is depressing.