Ninos Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said: To be fair, he was one of the players that Rowett mentioned he wanted to play at the end of the season, but unfortunately he was injured. I've only heard good things about Elsnik and I would love to see him feature next season but I think Curtains is being a bit naive. By the way, aren't you winding people up by saying Zanzala will score more than Martin next season when GR has barely said anything about him? He talked a big game, I loved Rowetts talk but If you paid close attention, Rowett kept trotting out the likes of Bent Baird Olsson etc and gave pretty much no opportunities to Elsnik or the other youngsters besides bench selections. And this was in totally meaningless games. If he plays Zanzala he will score, but I'm far from convinced any youngsters especially him will play given the logjam of mediocre veteran players we have blocking a way to these positions. and how much did he play Will Hughes? He preferred to play Butterfield for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Andicis said: That really stings. Our club is 'tinpot' they haven't ever won a trophy. Pretty sure they are the tinpot ones. It really does but at the end of the day they are an established premiership team whilst we are a midtable championship team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, PodgeyRam said: It means nothing if you get rid of the wrong players and buy the wrong players. You're right, he has made us a more attractive outfit, with our ability to pay ridiculous wages. That's part of the problem. We've been sucked into the game of paying inflated wages for players who are quite frankly, not good enough and with little scope for improvement. Give me the Nigel Clough/GSE days over this any day. At the end of the day, he's backed his managers. If he didn't, then we would be demanding his head for interfering too much. Yes, the hiring and firing has been ridiculous and I've vented my anger at Mel in the past, but he's supported his managers in the transfer market and does have the best interests of the club in his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Andicis said: That really stings. Our club is 'tinpot' they haven't ever won a trophy. Pretty sure they are the tinpot ones. They won the playoffs once... 1 minute ago, PodgeyRam said: That's part of the problem. We've been sucked into the game of paying inflated wages for players who are quite frankly, not good enough and with little scope for improvement. We'll see - If Rowett can turn Ryan Shotton and Clayton Donaldson into players in a team challenging for the top 6 think what he might be able to do with the likes of Davies and Martin (or sub in Keogh and Nugent - depending on your personal preference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, DazzaRam said: Being a better footballer counts for nothing. What will we actually miss apart from Hughes being a nice footballer? Goals? Assists? Strength? People are going way over the top. Hes decent. No more. Rowett needs to change the look and mentality of this squad and im pleased hes cracking on with it. Being a good goalscoring midfielder isn't everything, lots of good players don't score that many- I think this season players like Cabaye, Ozil, Mata didn't score many, probably a long list of talented players who don't score much. Hughes was out for a long time too wasn't he? So what does he offer? Strength? Well he doesn't lose the ball much his retention is good so I can't say he's weak on the ball....Vision? Loads. Intelligence. Loads. Form. Probably not at the moment. It's patchy but that could come back. He's only 21 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, ShoreRam said: And we're getting £8m according to numerous others, I guess the figure you believe depends on what you want to believe. If you want to stamp your feet and get angry about the sale, you're going to believe the lower figure. I'll say it again, last 3 seasons have been crap, the balance of the team all wrong and Hughes has played a major role in that. Add to that there isn't a queue waiting to sign him, a change may be a good thing. If the figure is £8 million I'm still unhappy with it. People moan that Hughes doesn't score enough, but we paid £8 million to Watford for a bloody striker who scored 3 the season before and who wouldn't have made their bench. There isn't a massive queue waiting to sign Ince either, but it doesn't mean we should just sell him to Huddersfield because they're the first team to come in for him. It's not even July yet, the window hasn't officially opened and Hughes is currently at a tournament that could massively boost his value if he gets a game or 2 and performs well in them. How on earth does Hughes play a major role in the balance of the team being wrong? What a silly thing to say. He doesn't choose who to sign and who starts matches. Surely the balance of the team being all wrong is down to Mel appointing 5 or 6 different managers in the space of a few years, all who want to play their own way and all who want to bring in their own players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, brady1993 said: It really does but at the end of the day they are an established premiership team whilst we are a midtable championship team. Correct, but historically speaking, based on fan base etc (I know, I can get called on for a post where I criticised others for using that point yesterday) we're a bigger club, so the fact that we've been overtaken by a club like Watford stings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, BurtonRam7 said: At the end of the day, he's backed his managers. If he didn't, then we would be demanding his head for interfering too much. Yes, the hiring and firing has been ridiculous and I've vented my anger at Mel in the past, but he's supported his managers in the transfer market and does have the best interests of the club in his heart. No point supporting managers in the market if you fire them after 6 bad games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Could people please stop saying that Hughes' value is only what clubs will pay for him! His real value to Derby would be better football, a better team and a much improved chance of getting promoted to the Premier League. Hard to put a price on that, but it's a lot more than £8m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, brady1993 said: It really does but at the end of the day they are an established premiership team whilst we are a midtable championship team. 2 seasons and last year they finished 17th didn't they? That's not my definition of established Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: They won the playoffs once... Doesn't count as a trophy on wikipedia, so I won't let them have that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, Andicis said: Doesn't count as a trophy on wikipedia, so I won't let them have that one. It's listed under 'honours' on their wikipedia page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazzaRam Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I'd say claiming Johnson had a better season than Hughes is highly debatable. In fact one of the reasons I think that Hughes and Butterfield had below par seasons is because they had to drop deep a lot to hold Johnsons hand in getting attacks going. Meaning they couldn't take up attacking positions to really harm opposition. Bradley Johnson had to play a role hes never played before because nobody else in the squad was strong enough to play it. Early season when Hughes played central midfield in a 2 he was absolutely dreadful and proved he struggles with that. Hughes can only play in a 3 man midfield and in that it has to be in the advanced roles. Its no big loss as some people are making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 46 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Bradley Johnson has the technical ability of a Hippo. Hungry Hippo's is a very technical game I'll let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, BurtonRam7 said: At the end of the day, he's backed his managers. If he didn't, then we would be demanding his head for interfering too much. Yes, the hiring and firing has been ridiculous and I've vented my anger at Mel in the past, but he's supported his managers in the transfer market and does have the best interests of the club in his heart. I understand he backs his managers to the hilt. The problem is, there should be someone in place to challenge those managers and say 'go on, explain to me why we need this player on these wages'. This lack of structure has set us back as Mel obviously doesn't see himself as being knowledgeable enough to do it and Rush had God knows what on his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, cheron85 said: It's listed under 'honours' on their wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won An honour, but not a trophy. They aren't on this list, so I will hold my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, Andicis said: Correct, but historically speaking, based on fan base etc (I know, I can get called on for a post where I criticised others for using that point yesterday) we're a bigger club, so the fact that we've been overtaken by a club like Watford stings. What makes it sting even more for me is really wasn't that long ago were we would beat them home and away, comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, cheron85 said: They won the playoffs once... We'll see - If Rowett can turn Ryan Shotton and Clayton Donaldson into players in a team challenging for the top 6 think what he might be able to do with the likes of Davies and Martin (or sub in Keogh and Nugent - depending on your personal preference) Yeah, and think what he could do with Will Hughes. He needs a quick start in the league. A Pearsonesque starting line fall will see him out of a job by September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, cheron85 said: 2 seasons and last year they finished 17th didn't they? That's not my definition of established Maybe established is a little too strong of a statement but I think gist of my point still stands. It stings though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 46 minutes ago, curtains said: I think this Guy will be better than Will. That is Elsnik not Guy, this is Guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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