Now then who can we realistically see going with contracts. .

[ck-]

13 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Yep, it's not a big list is it?

Christian Dailly £5.35 m in 1998, just 19 years ago..... ah, I see your point. 

[G STAR RAM]

13 hours ago, Simsy said:

I would argue if they had bale with the current team they would win the league.

But isn't the point that they would not have been able to put together the current squad without selling Bale?

[rynny]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

But isn't the point that they would not have been able to put together the current squad without selling Bale?

They only have Eriksen and Lamela at the club that they bought with the money they got for Bale. They also signed Soldado, Chadli, Paulihno and Chiriches. £105m for those 6 players.

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, ck- said:

Christian Dailly £5.35 m in 1998, just 19 years ago..... ah, I see your point. 

Just remembered we got 7 Million for Seth Johnson from Leeds in 2001 

[Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, curtains said:

Just remembered we got 7 Million for Seth Johnson from Leeds in 2001 

I was just going to say that one but if we remember Leeds actually stopped playing him so they didn't have to pay us all of the money! 

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I was just going to say that one but if we remember Leeds actually stopped playing him so they didn't have to pay us all of the money! 

I wonder how much we ended up getting for Seth I would imagine we got most of the 7 Million ! 

Always loved Seth a real hard man in midfield who could tackle but had an eye for a pass and a goal.  

Knee injury against Everton was a bad one for him .

Dean Sturridge was rumoured to be on the move to Arsenal for 10 Million but we turned it down  

 

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

I wonder how much we ended up getting for Seth I would imagine we got most of the 7 Million ! 

Always loved Seth a real hard man in midfield who could tackle but had an eye for a pass and a goal.  

Knee injury against Everton was a bad one for him .

Dean Sturridge was rumoured to be on the move to Arsenal for 10 Million but we turned it down  

 

Yep we were stupid not to take that then as he was basically injured from that point to be eventually sold for £250,000 I think of the top of my head.

[brady1993]

12 hours ago, jono said:

That's the fear for me with Tom and Will. They are both saleable at good fees without a doubt, we might get to the Prem without them and with a team built on a certain work ethic but then the bill for buying players of their equivalent would be so much higher. And what you might buy would be unknown. Book value for those 2 if we keep them and get promoted soars ! Sell now and they are, in a sense, being sold in the wrong part of the cycle.

Honestly this (as in likely having to sell off Hughes) is what makes make feel so bitter towards the complete mismanagement of the club (from a first team perspective) since 14/15. Now I am not entirely laying this at the feet of MM because ultimately we, as fans, are not privy to who makes what decision but during his tenure we have witnessed the degradation of a young  highly talented squad.

[jono]

34 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Honestly this (as in likely having to sell off Hughes) is what makes make feel so bitter towards the complete mismanagement of the club (from a first team perspective) since 14/15. Now I am not entirely laying this at the feet of MM because ultimately we, as fans, are not privy to who makes what decision but during his tenure we have witnessed the degradation of a young  highly talented squad.

You have a point but viewing afterwards isn't the same as having to make decisions on the day 

if we examine where we were when Paul Clement came ... Everyone pretty ok and looking forward to progress under a new man .. Then on practically the first day of the season we lose, at the same time .. The engine room / top scoring midfielder from the previous season in Craig Bryson and our precocious young midfield creator to season long injuries.

new manager is then missing the heart of the team. I can't remember what the George Thorne situation was then but the management and MM were left with having to make critical decisions in haste. MM opened his wallet to support a new manager ... I don't blame Paul Clement either ... What was available of quality at short notice ? We were ripe for the picking by the market sometimes the solids hit the fan and no one is to blame.

i am narked with the Camara / Blackman buys .. Not good and not so necessary. I also think we over paid for Vydra ( I am glad we have him but it should have been at 50% of what we paid ) 

i think what I am saying is .. You are right, in that  it hasn't gone well but I truely believe it was circumstance rather than purely bad decision making from any party. ... What would we all have said after the Bryson / Hughes injuries if Mel hadn't let PC go in to the market with hard cash. And what would we have said if Paul Clement had said "it's ok we got some good young lads ? " 

 

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, jono said:

You have a point but viewing afterwards isn't the same as having to make decisions on the day 

if we examine where we were when Paul Clement came ... Everyone pretty ok and looking forward to progress under a new man .. Then on practically the first day of the season we lose, at the same time .. The engine room / top scoring midfielder from the previous season in Craig Bryson and our precocious young midfield creator to season long injuries.

new manager is then missing the heart of the team. I can't remember what the George Thorne situation was then but the management and MM were left with having to make critical decisions in haste. MM opened his wallet to support a new manager ... I don't blame Paul Clement either ... What was available of quality at short notice ? We were ripe for the picking by the market sometimes the solids hit the fan and no one is to blame.

i am narked with the Camara / Blackman buys .. Not good and not so necessary. I also think we over paid for Vydra ( I am glad we have him but it should have been at 50% of what we paid ) 

i think what I am saying is .. You are right, in that  it hasn't gone well but I truely believe it was circumstance rather than purely bad decision making from any party. ... What would we all have said after the Bryson / Hughes injuries if Mel hadn't let PC go in to the market with hard cash. And what would we have said if Paul Clement had said "it's ok we got some good young lads ? " 

 

That's fair enough, and covers off Butterfield and Johnson, who I believed were excellent signings at the time.

It's the waste ever since that will see our better/more promising performers leave now, leaving behind the overpaid and underperforming players.

It is like you say though, it's impossible to really blame any individual left at the club for those mistakes, apart from the man who hired them, and we don't know how much input he had either.

Frustration is my chief emotion about the situation, we really shouldn't be in this situation.

It would be interesting if there were no FFP restrictions, how Mel would be approaching things now?

Would he chuck the kitchen sink at it financially, or go head along the path we've set now?

[jono]

9 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

That's fair enough, and covers off Butterfield and Johnson, who I believed were excellent signings at the time.

It's the waste ever since that will see our better/more promising performers leave now, leaving behind the overpaid and underperforming players.

It is like you say though, it's impossible to really blame any individual left at the club for those mistakes, apart from the man who hired them, and we don't know how much input he had either.

Frustration is my chief emotion about the situation, we really shouldn't be in this situation.

It would be interesting if there were no FFP restrictions, how Mel would be approaching things now?

Would he chuck the kitchen sink at it financially, or go head along the path we've set now?

I agree .. Frustration is the word. Most of us were delighted with the Butterfield and Johnson signings despite gasping a bit over the fees. The reality is they turned out somewhere between not bad and and pretty good sometimes...  instead of stormingly ace ( I remain positive in that GR might be able to re ignite the better parts of their respective games. ) 

what had happened over the last 2-3 seasons for me, is that we made what seemed to be logical decisions at the time but the ball kept bobbling at the wrong moment, studs slipped, the 50/50 ball went to them rather than us. I just get the feeling that despite some forthought and planning, stuff that should, on the balance of probabilities have worked out, didn't. !

Yup frustration is the word 

 

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, jono said:

What would we all have said after the Bryson / Hughes injuries if Mel hadn't let PC go in to the market with hard cash. And what would we have said if Paul Clement had said "it's ok we got some good young lads ?

Well we'll see how well the Academy is doing now won't we. I think we'd have understood, or even expected to see loans - can't really believe anyone thought we could just buy another Hughesy so cheapily/easily anyway!

[jono]

And on the FFP/Mel's barcalycard ... Not sure ... I think Mel is a bit of a player .. He loves his club and is spending 1 million a month on a regular basis, I bet he is just about comfortable with that.  .. But he is a winner he has an eye to a prize. This slot machine could pay out in Las Vegas numbers AND he KNOWS it. The question is how many new pound coins is he prepared to put in the machine or is he just happy to play now and again ? 

I Reckon the FFP thing will make his initial decision for him while he watches how Rowett does. .. If GR is making progress then when the effects of past spending drops away we might see one more effort.

no idea how FFP works but in the grand plan of things I'd summarise : 

Ince Wyman Bent .. = fees and hunky wages  ? 

big buys  being Butters and Johnson = 10 million

i see Vydra / Hendrick balancing themselves out = 0

then we have had big contract for Martin and Hughes, Blackman = serious wage bill increases 

Nuge .. Short (ish) term Buy of the era and carry over for when Benty departs. 

Lololol ... I keep forgetting we've got Nuge   and how much I am going to enjoy watching him play .. Got the lot .. Attitude, intelligence skill, commitment. Whatever happens next season it's going to be great seeing a bloke like that in the starting line up. He is a fans player. If I was on the pitch for the Rams .. That is how I would like to strut my stuff.

 

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well we'll see how well the Academy is doing now won't we. I think we'd have understood, or even expected to see loans - can't really believe anyone thought we could just buy another Hughesy so cheapily/easily anyway!

But that's it isn't it Roy. I'd have loved it if the disasters had made us play Jamie Hanson every week or try some other kids. That is how it should be ...  Then just take the stick/bad results as a learning exercise- development  ..... but can you honestly say that the forum would have agreed ? Some maybe but I doubt it. The industry tha we have become just isn't like that. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

But that's it isn't it Roy. I'd have loved it if the disasters had made us play Jamie Hanson every week or try some other kids. That is how it should be ...  Then just take the stick/bad results as a learning exercise- development  ..... but can you honestly say that the forum would have agreed ? Some maybe but I doubt it. The industry tha we have become just isn't like that. 

I think that most would have expected loans. Mel got carried away.

[Rev]

Didn't want to quote your post in full for brevity, but do you think with the slot machine analogy Mel wishes to make a return on his investment @jono?

I don't get that impression at all, if he could wash his face regarding investment I suspect that's the very best he would wish for.

I've given him some stick, not too much I'd add, but I don't doubt his intentions are driven by glory for the club rather than profit.

[jono]

@reveldevil .. I genuinely think it is a bit of both.

Mel is having a great time .. He loves his club and from my perspective, for all the quirks, he is a force for good at DCFC.

but I don't think he got where he did by not seeing an opportunity. He has spent a fortune buying and investing in the club but hey ... If the wheels all line up and we go up he is going to win twice .. Have a load of pleasure and a return on the money spent via a nice wad from Sky/BT for getting in to the PL. 

the great thing about Mel is that he genuinely is one of our own and not an Oyston or other of that ilk. You can see the plan B forming via the control of game rights and alternative broadcasting thing he is working on. ... So if we don't make it some time soon he is working on something to make us more sustainable from where we are now rather than being a constant drain on personal resources. 

[Carnero]

Failing all of that, get down Genting and stick it all on black 

[G STAR RAM]

23 hours ago, rynny said:

They only have Eriksen and Lamela at the club that they bought with the money they got for Bale. They also signed Soldado, Chadli, Paulihno and Chiriches. £105m for those 6 players.

The other 4 you mention though have all been recycled and replaced

[brady1993]

18 hours ago, jono said:

You have a point but viewing afterwards isn't the same as having to make decisions on the day 

Oh I agree and I think some of the decisions are only bad with hindsight however I think there have been several decisions that were not very well thought out or down right poor at the time.

For example I don't think the decision to hire Paul Clement was a poor one, he was a young talented coach coming in with glowing recommendations from some of the top people in the game. In fact, despite his football leaving something to be desired, questionable transfer activity and the slump in form around January, I would have given him till the end of the season (I realise though he may have been sacked for behind the scenes reasons).

But contrast that with the decision to hire Pearson. We had just spent the best part of half a season with Darren Wassell in charge, who had the remit of getting the team back to playing fluid attacking football. We were ready for the right coach, with the right footballing philosophy to come in and take the club forwards. Instead we hire someone who is the antithesis of everything we had supposedly been building towards. Surely someone at the club should have had the foresight to see hiring Pearson was at best a questionable decision ?

 

19 hours ago, jono said:

if we examine where we were when Paul Clement came ... Everyone pretty ok and looking forward to progress under a new man .. Then on practically the first day of the season we lose, at the same time .. The engine room / top scoring midfielder from the previous season in Craig Bryson and our precocious young midfield creator to season long injuries.

new manager is then missing the heart of the team. I can't remember what the George Thorne situation was then but the management and MM were left with having to make critical decisions in haste. MM opened his wallet to support a new manager ... I don't blame Paul Clement either ... What was available of quality at short notice ? We were ripe for the picking by the market sometimes the solids hit the fan and no one is to bla

Again, I see your point and it was something of tricky situation necessitating quick action in order to rectify it. I don't begrudge spending money in that situation, I don't begrudge going after known quantities and perhaps spending above market value to secure signatures. What I do question is signing Bradley Johnson to play in the midfield of side that is being built around controlling possession. It really wouldn't have taken an awful lot scouting to realise he wasn't going to be a good fit (hell all you needed to was take a look at his passing success rate to know it was a bad decision). Perhaps if it was just Johnson I could understand it but we signed several players during that summer and after without really thinking through how they were going to fit into the side or whether they were a good fit at all. We seemingly signed a lot of players just because they were know championship 'names'.

[EnigmaRam]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Oh I agree and I think some of the decisions are only bad with hindsight however I think there have been several decisions that were not very well thought out or down right poor at the time.

For example I don't think the decision to hire Paul Clement was a poor one, he was a young talented coach coming in with glowing recommendations from some of the top people in the game. In fact, despite his football leaving something to be desired, questionable transfer activity and the slump in form around January, I would have given him till the end of the season (I realise though he may have been sacked for behind the scenes reasons).

But contrast that with the decision to hire Pearson. We had just spent the best part of half a season with Darren Wassell in charge, who had the remit of getting the team back to playing fluid attacking football. We were ready for the right coach, with the right footballing philosophy to come in and take the club forwards. Instead we hire someone who is the antithesis of everything we had supposedly been building towards. Surely someone at the club should have had the foresight to see hiring Pearson was at best a questionable decision ?

 

Again, I see your point and it was something of tricky situation necessitating quick action in order to rectify it. I don't begrudge spending money in that situation, I don't begrudge going after known quantities and perhaps spending above market value to secure signatures. What I do question is signing Bradley Johnson to play in the midfield of side that is being built around controlling possession. It really wouldn't have taken an awful lot scouting to realise he wasn't going to be a good fit (hell all you needed to was take a look at his passing success rate to know it was a bad decision). Perhaps if it was just Johnson I could understand it but we signed several players during that summer and after without really thinking through how they were going to fit into the side or whether they were a good fit at all. We seemingly signed a lot of players just because they were know championship 'names'.

I agree with most of this but would just like to point a couple of things out

1- in a poll the majority of DCFC supporters wanted Pearson.

2- Johnson was brought in to fill the marauding role Bryson did. Butters was to fill the passing midfielder role.