Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, reveldevil said: Just for you, @curtains! i prefer this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, curtains said: Oh dear name is other purchases then ! Chris Martin is one. Don't need to, you said about Premier League as if McClaren could look there and Clough couldn't, the option was there for Clough to buy Premier League obviously otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to bring Sammon in. I'm not arguing Clough couldn't spot a player, I believe he bought Keogh in as well as Martin and Bryson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, curtains said: Who is the boss and why did he tell him he was sacked ! Derby Sack McClaren Seriously Curtains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Apparently anything other than promotion is 'all froth'. Just making sure everyone is judged by the same parameters. Did Mac not work wonders getting us to the play off final on a small budget? His first season was fantastic when he took over Nigel's team at Derby no doubt about it Terrible day at Wembley for us Derby fans though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: Derby Sack McClaren Seriously Curtains. Who said sack him . Next season will define McClaren . I hope he brings us promotion. i didn't want him back but realistically he's here now and that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, LazloW said: Hold on. Nearly three seasons? First season (not a full one) got us to play off final from a mid-table position, playing great football. Not sure how that can be regarded as failure when nobody could've expected us to get anywhere near the play offs... much the same as this season. Second season - a full one - the previous season's success increased expectations beyond any we'd had for years and so you could argue missing out on the play offs was a failure... but only because of the previous success (and Mel's money). For years we had no expectation of promotion, only hope. Third season.... didn't happen. I assume you aren't talking about this one, becasuse you said this one is following the same pattern as his previous three year stint. Either way, if he is a failure then so is every other manager in the last 10 years and I'd rather be watching the football he has (mostly) served up while 'failing' than some of the other dross. People have been repainting Derby's history since Wembley and this constant talk of failure and bottling it doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. The two previous seasons under SMC are actually amongst our most successful if you look at te longer term (whatever you think, we spend most of the time in the second tier and the paly offs constitute relative success... god, finishing 8th constitutes success when you think of the crappy seasons we have had both before and after promotion). Arguably, he also laid the foundations for the Clement/wassall attempt at the play offs. Unfortunately, all this has become the 'conventional wisdom' and it colours all discussions. Funny though isn't it, that for all talk of Clough (and I was a big fan) nobody really talks about him failing but he never got us anywhere near going up. In the end Nigel did fail and was rightly replaced. He did a lot of good, as did McClaren at first, but ultimately failed. I wouldn't want Nigel back, despite liking him a lot and I certainly don't want the loathsome McClaren back. I don't see the point in giving a failed manager another shot. If we'd brought back Brian Clough or Dave Mackay, then fair enough, but not failed managers. And failure in the play offs is not success. Clearly managers should be given time as long as it is clear that they are building something. Brighton have been progressing nicely under Hughton after a slow start. As soon as McClaren had to do something more than coach Clough's team the trajectory has been downwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, CornwallRam said: In the end Nigel did fail and was rightly replaced. He did a lot of good, as did McClaren at first, but ultimately failed. I wouldn't want Nigel back, despite liking him a lot and I certainly don't want the loathsome McClaren back. I don't see the point in giving a failed manager another shot. If we'd brought back Brian Clough or Dave Mackay, then fair enough, but not failed managers. And failure in the play offs is not success. Clearly managers should be given time as long as it is clear that they are building something. Brighton have been progressing nicely under Hughton after a slow start. As soon as McClaren had to do something more than coach Clough's team the trajectory has been downwards. It really wasn't though. He finished 8th in the "failed" season. That's higher than any of the finishes Nigel accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, curtains said: Oh dear name is other purchases then ! Chris Martin is one. Players from the prem that Clough signed (permanent and loan included) Russell Anderson Tomasz Cywka Bryan Hughes Nicky Hunt Jake Livermore David Martin (gk) Fredrik Stoor Giles Sunu Michael Tonge James Vaughan Javar Vidal Daniel Ayala Matt Duke Frank Fielding Brad Jones Luke Moore Ryan Noble Tom Carroll Ryan Noble (again!) Michael Hoganson Chris Martin Connor Sammon Adam Smith Looking at some of those names *shudder* NB. I may have missed some players off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: Don't need to, you said about Premier League as if McClaren could look there and Clough couldn't, the option was there for Clough to buy Premier League obviously otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to bring Sammon in. I'm not arguing Clough couldn't spot a player, I believe he bought Keogh in as well as Martin and Bryson. He brought Hendrick and Hughes on i am told. He signed Russell a fans favourite I am told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, rynny said: Players from the prem that Clough signed (permanent and loan included) Russell Anderson Tomasz Cywka Bryan Hughes Nicky Hunt Jake Livermore David Martin (gk) Fredrik Stoor Giles Sunu Michael Tonge James Vaughan Javar Vidal Daniel Ayala Matt Duke Frank Fielding Brad Jones Luke Moore Ryan Noble Tom Carroll Ryan Noble (again!) Michael Hoganson Chris Martin Connor Sammon Adam Smith Looking at some of those names *shudder* NB. I may have missed some players off. Leon Best on that list . No that was McClarens failure. Tom Carrol from Spurs the one getting rave reviews now at Swansea that Clement signed recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, curtains said: Higher wages on a longer contract Blimey, you are the budget holder now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, BathRam72 said: Blimey, you are the budget holder now!! Doesn't worry me I just answered a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: In the end Nigel did fail and was rightly replaced. He did a lot of good, as did McClaren at first, but ultimately failed. I wouldn't want Nigel back, despite liking him a lot and I certainly don't want the loathsome McClaren back. I don't see the point in giving a failed manager another shot. If we'd brought back Brian Clough or Dave Mackay, then fair enough, but not failed managers. And failure in the play offs is not success. Clearly managers should be given time as long as it is clear that they are building something. Brighton have been progressing nicely under Hughton after a slow start. As soon as McClaren had to do something more than coach Clough's team the trajectory has been downwards. Mac had 3 transfer windows with the team that Clough spent 5 years putting together. We had a shitstorm of injuries right through the spine of the team when we finished 8th, we acheived the highest points total to miss out on the play offs (with Wolves) if we had that season 2 years earlier (12/13 season) our match against Reading would have been one to get 2nd not 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, rynny said: Mac had 3 transfer windows with the team that Clough spent 5 years putting together. We had a shitstorm of injuries right through the spine of the team when we finished 8th, we acheived the highest points total to miss out on the play offs (with Wolves) if we had that season 2 years earlier (12/13 season) our match against Reading would have been one to get 2nd not 6th. 2014/2015 Watford finished 2nd on 89 points Derby finished 8th on 77 points a 12 point gap that season . We missed out by 1 point to Ipswich who finished 6th on 78pts Other seasons are irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, CornwallRam said: He had nearly three seasons before and failed, and this season is following the same pattern. He's a poor manager who just happened to drop lucky before by inheriting a talented squad who just needed to be given some freedom to express themselves.His whole managerial record shows him to be clueless once things start to go wrong - he's a coach not a manager. He should never have been re-appointed and each day that he remains here is another day further away from the start of the rebuilding process. At this point both Warburton and Rowett are available, but are unlikely to be unemployed for long. I know that Mel won't consider it, but by choice would be to fire McClaren today and bring in either one of them in order to give them the maximum time to assess the squad before the summer transfer widow opens. I think you might be missing the point that twice he took over too late in the season to claw back the points lost by the previous Managers. If he had started the Wembley season and who knows, this season, automatic promotion might have been achieved. As outlined, his record at Derby speaks for itself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, curtains said: His first season was fantastic when he took over Nigel's team at Derby no doubt about it Terrible day at Wembley for us Derby fans though . Err yeah, terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, curtains said: Leon Best on that list . No that was McClarens failure. Tom Carrol from Spurs the one getting rave reviews now at Swansea that Clement signed recently You bring up irrelevant points. Carroll at the time was not very good for us. Go and have a look at some of the match day comments from when he was here. Doesn't matter what he does elsewhere, just like it doesn't matter what Mac has done elsewhere or Pearson or Clement or anyone else. It only matters what they do here. Not sure what Leon Best has to do with Clough's signings, but thank you for proving my earlier point about Mac not having the budget that you were making out he did, we were resigned to sign dross like Leon Best. Which you haven't responded to, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, rynny said: You bring up irrelevant points. Carroll at the time was not very good for us. Go and have a look at some of the match day comments from when he was here. Doesn't matter what he does elsewhere, just like it doesn't matter what Mac has done elsewhere or Pearson or Clement or anyone else. It only matters what they do here. Not sure what Leon Best has to do with Clough's signings, but thank you for proving my earlier point about Mac not having the budget that you were making out he did, we were resigned to sign dross like Leon Best. Which you haven't responded to, again. McClaren signed Leon Best on loan was that a good signing. Respond to that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, curtains said: McClaren signed Leon Best on loan was that a good signing. Respond to that . Shall I wait for you to change your post first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, rynny said: Shall I wait for you to change your post first? Sorry what do you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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