RamNut Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Long ball rowett? might as well have stuck with blockhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, LazloW said: Hold on. Nearly three seasons? First season (not a full one) got us to play off final from a mid-table position, playing great football. Not sure how that can be regarded as failure when nobody could've expected us to get anywhere near the play offs... much the same as this season. Second season - a full one - the previous season's success increased expectations beyond any we'd had for years and so you could argue missing out on the play offs was a failure... but only because of the previous success (and Mel's money). For years we had no expectation of promotion, only hope. Third season.... didn't happen. I assume you aren't talking about this one, becasuse you said this one is following the same pattern as his previous three year stint. Either way, if he is a failure then so is every other manager in the last 10 years and I'd rather be watching the football he has (mostly) served up while 'failing' than some of the other dross. People have been repainting Derby's history since Wembley and this constant talk of failure and bottling it doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. The two previous seasons under SMC are actually amongst our most successful if you look at te longer term (whatever you think, we spend most of the time in the second tier and the paly offs constitute relative success... god, finishing 8th constitutes success when you think of the crappy seasons we have had both before and after promotion). Arguably, he also laid the foundations for the Clement/wassall attempt at the play offs. Unfortunately, all this has become the 'conventional wisdom' and it colours all discussions. Funny though isn't it, that for all talk of Clough (and I was a big fan) nobody really talks about him failing but he never got us anywhere near going up. Clough had no budget with the Americans He kept us up though. Mel Morris is a rich man and we are worse now in some aspects on the field than in Nigel's days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, curtains said: Clough had no budget. Mac hasn't really spent a great deal though has he? Or do you want to ignore my post again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, rynny said: Mac hasn't really spent a great deal though has he? Or do you want to ignore my post again? I didn't ignore you did I. He has chose to manage his way with lots of loans like Ibe and Lingard and Best etc to name a few . He said he couldn't improve this January on the players he has at his disposal although he is bringing Chris Martin back which won't be cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: He has failed to get us promoted - everything else is just froth. He is and always will be a failure. Blinkered view of the situation. He turned us from bottom half of the table team into play off contenders and you consider this a failure? Did you have this sense of promotion entitlement when Clough Jr was in charge and we lost more than we won? Rowett has been mentioned in this thread, he has lost in the play off semi final and final with Burton. He's as much a failure as McClaren using your logic. He then jumped ship to manage a "bigger" club. By Curtains logic he's as "wishy-washy" as they come. Rowett also oversaw a return of 9 pts out of 36 at the end of the 15/16 season: the same return McClaren bought in the season we missed the play-offs. Rowett may be young and could improve, but I don't think he's experienced enough for us yet, like Clement, IMO. Warburton too, play off failure. Has won the cup in Scotland twice, but McClaren has a cup in England and a league title to his name from Holland, compare as you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I think Mac needs the summer to sift through the playing squad because clearly some aren't good enough, some aren't being utilised effectively due to the way in which we have been playing and some appear to be just doing enough to be considered not 'going through the motions'. That said though we do have a really really good squad so at times some of our performances even in victory have been disappointing. I generally don't think it's a good idea for a player or manager to return to a club they have served previously but Mac is here so benefit of the doubt required, least until the end of next season. Perhaps for me personally the most disappointing thing about our play under Mac has been the lack of tempo and urgency generally speaking. If there is a 'Derby way' with attacking fast paced football then we've only seen it sporadically this season. I just think Mac needs the summer to assess everything and do some business and get a set way of playing effectively and hopefully he will have taken much from this season and be able to use it to our advantage. It's fair enough to consider whether he is the right man or not but not fair to want him out until he's at least had another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, curtains said: Clough had no budget. He kept us up though. Mel Morris is a rich man and we are worse now in some aspects on the field than in Nigel's days. I realise that. I suppose what I mean though is that SMC is a victim of his own success. He took Nigel's team, turned them into contenders (without spending a great deal) and the expectation went through the roof and now anything which isn't a 5-0 victory is met with howls of derision and a discussion about sacking the manager... but again, this is only happening because of SMC coming in and working miracles to get us into the top half after the terrible start to the season. If he, or anybody else had come in, and just stabilised, got us playing better, picking up results and getting us to mid-table it would've been 'job done' for this year. Very few people expected any manager to get us anywhere near promotion this year (so, again, can't see how this season constitutes a failure yet either). But he gets us back into a miraculous play off challenging spot, expectations go through the roof again, but then he gets castigated when we lose. He can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just for you, @curtains! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, LazloW said: I realise that. I suppose what I mean though is that SMC is a victim of his own success. He took Nigel's team, turned them into contenders (without spending a great deal) and the expectation went through the roof and now anything which isn't a 5-0 victory is met with howls of derision and a discussion about sacking the manager... but again, this is only happening because of SMC coming in and working miracles to get us into the top half after the terrible start to the season. If he, or anybody else had come in, and just stabilised, got us playing better, picking up results and getting us to mid-table it would've been 'job done' for this year. Very few people expected any manager to get us anywhere near promotion this year (so, again, can't see how this season constitutes a failure yet either). But he gets us back into a miraculous play off challenging spot, expectations go through the roof again, but then he gets castigated when we lose. He can't win. He did loan in players from the Premier League though like a George Thorne . But you are correct about his first season when he took over from Nigel but unfortunately we lost at Wembley. Subsequently though he didn't move us on into the Premier League did he. Why did he leave us after Reading 3 -0 loss and missing out finishing 8th . Was it him who decided that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, curtains said: I didn't ignore you did I. He has chose to manage his way with lots of loans like Ibe and Lingard and Best etc to name a few . He said he couldn't improve this January on the players he has at his disposal although he is bringing Chris Martin back which won't be cheap. How so? He's our player and his loan will be up, what will it cost us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, curtains said: He did loan in players from the Premier League though ! But you are correct about his first season when he took over from Nigel but unfortunately we lost at Wembley At least we got to Wembley, Clough got us no where near. Nigel could have loaned in players from the PL, no? He purchased Sammon from a premier league club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 34 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: He has failed to get us promoted - everything else is just froth. He is and always will be a failure. So you would like us to replace him with Rowett or Warburton who both got their respective teams promoted from this division then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, reveldevil said: Just for you, @curtains! Love that group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, G STAR RAM said: So you would like us to replace him with Rowett or Warburton who both got their respective teams promoted from this division then... You think they didn't achieve wonders with Birmingham and Brentford respectively on low budgets then. Look where Brum are now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: At least we got to Wembley, Clough got us no where near. Nigel could have loaned in players from the PL, no? He purchased Sammon from a premier league club. Oh dear name is other purchases then ! Chris Martin is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ramarena said: How so? He's our player and his loan will be up, what will it cost us? Higher wages on a longer contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, curtains said: Why did he leave us after Reading 3 -0 loss and missing out finishing 8th . Was it him who decided that ! Because his boss told him he was sacked? Or did you think Mac should have just carried on turning up for work anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Because his boss told him he was sacked? Or did you think Mac should have just carried on turning up for work anyway? Who is the boss and why did he tell him he was sacked ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, curtains said: I didn't ignore you did I. He has chose to manage his way with lots of loans like Ibe and Lingard and Best etc to name a few . He said he couldn't improve this January on the players he has at his disposal although he is bringing Chris Martin back which won't be cheap. Yes this post. He has chosen loans as the money was still relatively scarce during his first spell. He had only spent substantial money (at the time) on Thorne, which was earned through reaching the play offs. The value of loans were/are better during the January transfer window than signing players. Mac has had 3 January transfer windows and 1 summer over his 2 spells. The only other players we have spent money on signing whilst he has been in charge is Shotton (around half a million and sold for a profit) Albentosa (bought for about £600k and sold for £1m again a profit) Dawkins (for less than half a million and sold for about the same) Naylor (free), Warnock (less than half a million), Whitbred (free), Christie (around £600k) and some youth players.So in his first spell he spent about £2m on players and Thorne who was the summer's blockbuster signing for around £2.5-3m depending on what you read. This time prices have inflated and he has brought in Nugent for £2.5m-ish which for some of the other transfer fees (by us previously and others this last window) isn't exactly breaking the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, curtains said: You think they didn't achieve wonders with Birmingham and Brentford respectively on low budgets then. Look where Brum are now ! Apparently anything other than promotion is 'all froth'. Just making sure everyone is judged by the same parameters. Did Mac not work wonders getting us to the play off final on a small budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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