Nuwtfly Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Papahet said: Forestieri all day long. Offer them ££ + Shackell, Anya Aren't we trying to get rid of the bad eggs in our squad, not add more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I see Hull had a £10m bid for Kenneth Zohore turned down by Cardiff. If we have £10.5m to spare he would be the answer to our striking issues. A proper centre forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Anag Ram said: I see Hull had a £10m bid for Kenneth Zohore turned down by Cardiff. If we have £10.5m to spare he would be the answer to our striking issues. A proper centre forward. Or we could sign that Chris Martin lad from Fulham - Big, strong, good in the air, great ball control, good vision, passion, eye for goal - Think he's the top scorer in the division over the last 3 years and he didn't even have a particularly good year last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Or we could sign that Chris Martin lad from Fulham - Big, strong, good in the air, great ball control, good vision, passion, eye for goal - Think he's the top scorer in the division over the last 3 years and he didn't even have a particularly good year last season He is also very fit, chases everything, scores lots of headed goals for a big guy, leads the line well, runs the channels, all the things I like in a centre forward. Oh I forgot as he has signed a big contract extension, he doesn't just sit back and enjoy the lifestyle ................. jackanory .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: He is also very fit, chases everything, scores lots of headed goals for a big guy, leads the line well, runs the channels, all the things I like in a centre forward. Oh I forgot as he has signed a big contract extension, he doesn't just sit back and enjoy the lifestyle ................. jackanory .......... I think you're getting confused between a "centre-forward" and a "stiker" there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(association_football)#Centre-forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: I think you're getting confused between a "centre-forward" and a "stiker" there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(association_football)#Centre-forward No I think you are living in the past, I think martin was a superb player for us, but the emphasis is on WAS. He is nowhere near the player he was and what's more important is his attitude to get better/improve stinks But your entitled to yours, I just don't agree with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: No I think you are living in the past, I think martin was a superb player for us, but the emphasis is on WAS. He is nowhere near the player he was and what's more important is his attitude to get better/improve stinks But your entitled to yours, I just don't agree with it Based on what?!?!? Two games? Both of which we weren't particularly good an an entire team - Both of which he was left isolated up front on his own - One of which was against what seems to be the best team in the league at the moment What evidence do you have on his attitude? The guy wasn't due back to training until the whole squad was yet he went in at the start of his holiday to do the fitness test Rowett wanted from everyone else but he hadn't been asked to do - And then he turned up to training a week early so he could make sure he was back up to scratch - That's the only evidence I've seen of his attitude I'm pretty sure what you mean is "I went to the games and he didn't run around enough" - He's a centre-forward - They don't - When we're under the cosh people need to know where he is so that they can play the ball to him - You either clear long to the far corners or central to your centre-forward - So he needs to be there - Plus he plays on his own up there - Which again means people need to know where he is - If he's running around being in random places the midfield and the wingers aren't going to know where to play the ball - It's fairly standard tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: No I think you are living in the past, I think martin was a superb player for us, but the emphasis is on WAS. He is nowhere near the player he was and what's more important is his attitude to get better/improve stinks But your entitled to yours, I just don't agree with it Yeah he's just like that Ince, mardy and never smiles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Based on what?!?!? Two games? Both of which we weren't particularly good an an entire team - Both of which he was left isolated up front on his own - One of which was against what seems to be the best team in the league at the moment What evidence do you have on his attitude? The guy wasn't due back to training until the whole squad was yet he went in at the start of his holiday to do the fitness test Rowett wanted from everyone else but he hadn't been asked to do - And then he turned up to training a week early so he could make sure he was back up to scratch - That's the only evidence I've seen of his attitude I'm pretty sure what you mean is "I went to the games and he didn't run around enough" - He's a centre-forward - They don't - When we're under the cosh people need to know where he is so that they can play the ball to him - You either clear long to the far corners or central to your centre-forward - So he needs to be there - Plus he plays on his own up there - Which again means people need to know where he is - If he's running around being in random places the midfield and the wingers aren't going to know where to play the ball - It's fairly standard tactics Funnily enough playing up front as a Striker/Centre Forward does involve a certain amount of physical movement ......... it's commonly called running. Yes I base my opinions on going to matches, forming opinions upon players performance over years, and not just this season. My evidence of his attitude is for all to see, the fact that you seem blinded by his past performances is your problem. We all know that Martin is not the most mobile of players, however he has shown a complete inability to make himself available in matches. Yes that does involve moving. I watch in horror as he attaches himself to a centre half rather than look for spaces between them. His attitude stinks! He makes no real effort to look for space, his ability to hold onto possession is dwindling and his team player just does not justify a place in the team. He is nowhere near the payer he WAS, and in my opinion ANY FEE to get him out of the door and clear the wages from our books would be beneficial to the TEAM. Yes this is my opinion, you have yours, it's just not in accordance to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Based on what?!?!? Two games? Both of which we weren't particularly good an an entire team - Both of which he was left isolated up front on his own - One of which was against what seems to be the best team in the league at the moment What evidence do you have on his attitude? The guy wasn't due back to training until the whole squad was yet he went in at the start of his holiday to do the fitness test Rowett wanted from everyone else but he hadn't been asked to do - And then he turned up to training a week early so he could make sure he was back up to scratch - That's the only evidence I've seen of his attitude... Yeah, yeah very sensible but I don't think you've seen him run around and huff and puff though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: Funnily enough playing up front as a Striker/Centre Forward does involve a certain amount of physical movement ......... it's commonly called running. Yes I base my opinions on going to matches, forming opinions upon players performance over years, and not just this season. My evidence of his attitude is for all to see, the fact that you seem blinded by his past performances is your problem. We all know that Martin is not the most mobile of players, however he has shown a complete inability to make himself available in matches. Yes that does involve moving. I watch in horror as he attaches himself to a centre half rather than look for spaces between them. His attitude stinks! He makes no real effort to look for space, his ability to hold onto possession is dwindling and his team player just does not justify a place in the team. He is nowhere near the payer he WAS, and in my opinion ANY FEE to get him out of the door and clear the wages from our books would be beneficial to the TEAM. Yes this is my opinion, you have yours, it's just not in accordance to mine. You are entitled to your opinion - You just don't seem to have much to back it up - I gave you an example of proof of his attitude and you just quote "I have eyes" So far this season he has won more aerial battles per game than his average in other seasons He has been dispossessed less times - But had more unsuccessful touches - And basically no shots - Not overly shocking when he's had less service (The Wolves game he essentially played on his own against 2 CBs) His pass numbers have been down but his accuracy is about the same as it's ever been - Again suggesting he's getting less of the ball Can't find the numbers for the amount of ground he's covering 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yeah, yeah very sensible but I don't think you've seen him run around and huff and puff though? Yeh right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: Or we could sign that Chris Martin lad from Fulham - Big, strong, good in the air, great ball control, good vision, passion, eye for goal - Think he's the top scorer in the division over the last 3 years and he didn't even have a particularly good year last season Even better he's available for FREE!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: You are entitled to your opinion - You just don't seem to have much to back it up - I gave you an example of proof of his attitude and you just quote "I have eyes" So far this season he has won more aerial battles per game than his average in other seasons He has been dispossessed less times - But had more unsuccessful touches - And basically no shots - Not overly shocking when he's had less service (The Wolves game he essentially played on his own against 2 CBs) His pass numbers have been down but his accuracy is about the same as it's ever been - Again suggesting he's getting less of the ball Can't find the numbers for the amount of ground he's covering Yeh right? Yes I have based my opinion on my eyes, watching Martin play. That's how I normally form my opinions, based on personal experience. So yes based on my opinion I don't think Martin has a good attitude. He refuses to adapt, to change, to find space, to harry opponents, in effect to become a better team player! But then again, it's not only my opinion, it came as no surprise to me that Fulham did not take the option to buy him, Gary Rowett himself stated we were looking for more movement when selecting the team on Tuesday. Hence Martin did not start, he came on and in reality, did nothing to change my opinion. I would suggest rather than trying to make random statistics back an opinion, you actually form one of your own. In my opinion Nugent is not the answer either, although to his credit his EFFORT in winning aerial duels, linking play, finding space between defenders, and general play was in stark contrast to Martin. I really feel we should buy a younger, physical, quick, proven goal scorer, yes they are expensive and past performance is no guarantee or future performance. I like Nugent, but his pace has gone, but at least the attitude is good, something a certain Chris Martin could take note of. That's my opinion! Based on my own eyes, and experience, not sure on what else I should base it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Saul Pimpson said: Even better he's available for FREE!!!!!!!! Not far off his valuation to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: Yes I have based my opinion on my eyes, watching Martin play. That's how I normally form my opinions, based on personal experience. That's my opinion! Based on my own eyes, and experience, not sure on what else I should base it on! If you have nothing to back it up then it's not a very well educated opinion - Stats are there to show proof behind something - So far you have given no proof about what you're saying - I can easily state the opinion that Derby County are the greatest team the world has ever seen (trufax) but my friends often remind me that the numbers don't back that up and I may be a little misguided 7 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said: I would suggest rather than trying to make random statistics back an opinion, you actually form one of your own. In my opinion Nugent is not the answer either, although to his credit his EFFORT in winning aerial duels, linking play, finding space between defenders, and general play was in stark contrast to Martin. I have formed an opinion of my own - Based on what I've seen so far this season - And I just backed it up with some facts - The opinion is my own - the actual FACTS are written hard in statistics - How I choose to try and understand those facts forms my opinion I mean it's all very good stating that someone's EFFORT at winning aerial duels is better - What the statistics actually show is that Martin has a better EFFECTIVENESS so far - I mean I like Nugent - He works very hard which is an admirable quality in a player - However I'd prefer to play him behind Martin because, you know, the facts suggest he's not as good at winning those aerial battles... So other than your opinion backing up your opinion with opinions around the opinions you've formed - What facts do you actually have to support what you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, cheron85 said: If you have nothing to back it up then it's not a very well educated opinion - Stats are there to show proof behind something - So far you have given no proof about what you're saying - I can easily state the opinion that Derby County are the greatest team the world has ever seen (trufax) but my friends often remind me that the numbers don't back that up and I may be a little misguided I have formed an opinion of my own - Based on what I've seen so far this season - And I just backed it up with some facts - The opinion is my own - the actual FACTS are written hard in statistics - How I choose to try and understand those facts forms my opinion I mean it's all very good stating that someone's EFFORT at winning aerial duels is better - What the statistics actually show is that Martin has a better EFFECTIVENESS so far - I mean I like Nugent - He works very hard which is an admirable quality in a player - However I'd prefer to play him behind Martin because, you know, the facts suggest he's not as good at winning those aerial battles... So other than your opinion backing up your opinion with opinions around the opinions you've formed - What facts do you actually have to support what you say? Yeah.............but you are Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Yeah.............but you are Batman! Yeh - That's probably why I always post with barely suppressed rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, cheron85 said: If you have nothing to back it up then it's not a very well educated opinion - Stats are there to show proof behind something - So far you have given no proof about what you're saying - I can easily state the opinion that Derby County are the greatest team the world has ever seen (trufax) but my friends often remind me that the numbers don't back that up and I may be a little misguided I have formed an opinion of my own - Based on what I've seen so far this season - And I just backed it up with some facts - The opinion is my own - the actual FACTS are written hard in statistics - How I choose to try and understand those facts forms my opinion I mean it's all very good stating that someone's EFFORT at winning aerial duels is better - What the statistics actually show is that Martin has a better EFFECTIVENESS so far - I mean I like Nugent - He works very hard which is an admirable quality in a player - However I'd prefer to play him behind Martin because, you know, the facts suggest he's not as good at winning those aerial battles... So other than your opinion backing up your opinion with opinions around the opinions you've formed - What facts do you actually have to support what you say? I am unsure of what period/where these facts are from/etc. your alleged facts originate. However, if you think Martin is effective, you are deluded. There is no way you can compare Martin's effectiveness in the first 2 and a bit games with Nugent's on Tuesday night. They are like night and day different, and it's the team as a whole that wins or loses matches. And unfortunately in my opinion Martin is not a team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Hathersage Ram said: I am unsure of what period/where these facts are from/etc. your alleged facts originate. However, if you think Martin is effective, you are deluded. There is no way you can compare Martin's effectiveness in the first 2 and a bit games with Nugent's on Tuesday night. They are like night and day different, and it's the team as a whole that wins or loses matches. And unfortunately in my opinion Martin is not a team player. Whoscored.com - They take the data from Opta I mean you can probably call them 'alleged' but then they are the stats used by everyone in football - So they might have some validity above whatever you happen to remember from a game And I agree that it's unfair to compare the two performances - Tuesday night was a better team performance against weaker opposition in a different formation with different players around them However you seem to be able to state that Martin is rubbish based on that comparison sooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Hathersage Ram said: No I think you are living in the past, I think martin was a superb player for us, but the emphasis is on WAS. He is nowhere near the player he was and what's more important is his attitude to get better/improve stinks But your entitled to yours, I just don't agree with it You are basing this on 2 starts where the service he had was non existent? Out of interest where do you get the impression his attitude stinks? First in for pre season previous 2 seasons and was back when the rest of the squad were even though he was given longer off due to international duty. If his attitude stinks then what does it say about Keogh, Pearce, Anya etc who had an extended break?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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