Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 We are finally waking up and proving what we all knew we had; a side that should be challenging not struggling. We still look short of what we had 13/14 but maybe Vydra and Blackman will kick on, GT gets fit and Anya show what he can do. May even get CM9 back in Jan. With a sprinkling of investment in Jan it could set us up for an exciting run in. Taking all this in to account have we a chance of usurping Brighton for the second automatic birth or should we count top 6 (even top 4 for secong leg at home) a real achievement? Personally top 6 should be minimum as we should be finishing above the likes of Huddersfield and Brum. In the shake-up will be Reading, Sheff W and Norwich so if we can get top 4 Macca deserves the freedom of the City. Thoughts????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 "Top 2" should always be the ambition imo, and what I've voted for, but that doesn't mean that's my minimum. My minimum is to not get relegated. I enjoy being in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 You always aim for the highest honours. Top two for me all day long. We are more than capable based on recent evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said: You always aim for the highest honours. Top two for me all day long. We are more than capable based on recent evidence. So are you saying that we are more than capable of being 13 points clear of the 3rd-placed club over a 37 game season? Because that's the scale of what you are asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Probably a badly phrased question. "Ambition" should always be the highest it is still mathematically possible for us to achieve (why would you not have ambition to win every game?). So, ambition has to be to finish top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 Ambition imo is what you personally aspire to achieve. My ambitition was to get to a certain level in my day job. It wasnt the highest that could potentially be achieved but to a level that i would be satisfied with. I have achieved that i set out to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 26 minutes ago, eddie said: So are you saying that we are more than capable of being 13 points clear of the 3rd-placed club over a 37 game season? Because that's the scale of what you are asking for. What are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Given the catastrophic start to the season it's looking near-impossible to finish top 2 (what an unfortunate waste). For the early season it looked as though we might be dragged down into a relegation fight rather than competing at the top of the league as we've recently become accustomed, so it's great that the team appears to have turned the corner and be growing in confidence. My ambition is promotion which isn't an option in the poll (!) but we can only achieve that via the playoffs, so as a stepping stone to reaching it I've gone for a top 6 place. I think we'll get there and have heavily backed that view at the bookies. The third place team is promoted more often than others, but the fourth rarely makes it, so I don't see that top 4 is especially preferable in our quest to be playing in the top flight next season. If we have an astonishing run and finish third within touching distance of the top two, I can't help feeling there'll be a sense of deja-vu and added pressure when it comes to the playoffs. And we've shown these players are not especially good when dealiing with pressure. So, I would be happy with a gradual upward curve and finding ourselves reasonably comfortably in the playoffs by the season end, this time managing the playing time and fitness of our key performers far better, doing everything in our power to finally get over the line. If we do end up bein the standout third placed team of course I'll take it and look at the positives, but I care rather more about promotion than another season of glorious failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Top 6 after the start we made is obviously the realistic "target", but like everyone's said, the ambition is to win every game. But then my ambition is to be beach body ready, my target is to get back into 36" waist trousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Hasn't changed since Pearson left for me. Don't raise your expectations just because form is good. Those of you asking for top 6 or top 2 will be the same ones calling for McClaren's head if we finish 10th. Short memories. This is still a damaged team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, eddie said: So are you saying that we are more than capable of being 13 points clear of the 3rd-placed club over a 37 game season? Because that's the scale of what you are asking for. It happens! It's happened before, it can happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tombo said: Hasn't changed since Pearson left for me. Don't raise your expectations just because form is good. Those of you asking for top 6 or top 2 will be the same ones calling for McClaren's head if we finish 10th. Short memories. This is still a damaged team. A bit of a sober reality check. Kudos for sticking your neck out and saying it. I don't quite agree in one sense; we are entitled to aim for the Top 6. We are even entitled to "expect" to get there given form and where we are situated. We SHOULD be aiming for the Top 6 in fact. Any further than that (ie autos) is entirely dependant on major stumbles from Newcastle and/or Brighton. However, it is easy to ignore (a) just how 'streaky' form can be in the championship; (b) that, although we've improved greatly under McClaren, we've still been 'wobbly' at times and our recent draw has been favourable (until Norwich, who are badly out-of-form); (c) that our squad is still unbalanced in key areas and heavily reliant on Ince and Hughes' class; and (d) we're highly susceptible to fluctuations in confidence. That said, I absolutely agree with your description of us as "a damaged team". I've long argued that we're brittle in terms of confidence; that, despite our defensive record, our defensive frailty could expose us badly at any time, especially against the better quality teams; and expectations of this squad - and, therefore, the pressure we heap upon them when they stumble (as they inevitably will) - are too high. They - our expectations - border on schizophrenic and the team's collapsed under their weight for the last few seasons. I'd go one step further too; I remain concerned at the evident 'player power' in the club and, as much as I adore McClaren as our manager (and always have), I still fear how the relationship between he and the club and fans will cope if form/results turn awry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Daz_The_Ram said: What are you on about? Because there are 46 games in the season, and after 9 of them, we were 13 points behind an automatic promotion spot - points that we would have to make up in the remaining 37 games of the season. It's not difficult (the maths, that is). The automatics? Perhaps a somewhat more difficult test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Top 6 for me will be an achievement. I wouldn't have dreamt of that at the end of September. I was thinking last night I'm not reading too much of the "we need a total clear out/these players are failures" tosh that was being posted during Pearson's tenure, funny that. Top 6, avoid Villa til Wembley, hammer them in the final, job's a good 'un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, eddie said: Because there are 46 games in the season, and after 9 of them, we were 13 points behind an automatic promotion spot - points that we would have to make up in the remaining 37 games of the season. It's not difficult (the maths, that is). The automatics? Perhaps a somewhat more difficult test. Interesting point, that. Also interesting is that after 9 games, we were 14 points behind (then leaders) Norwich, currently 1 point and 8th 13 points behind (2nd) Huddersfield, currently 3 points and 6th 11 points behind Brighton and Reading (3rd and 4th), currently 12 and 8, 2nd and 3rd 10 points behind (5th) Newcastle, currently 14 points and 1st 9 points behind Barnsley and Wolves (7th and 8th) currently -4 and -5, and 18th and 19th. So, we've only fallen behind Brighton (1) and Newcastle (4) in the points tally. Sadly, those are the 2 teams we need to overtake. Not sure what this proves other than I've a little time on my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Tombo said: Hasn't changed since Pearson left for me. Don't raise your expectations just because form is good. Those of you asking for top 6 or top 2 will be the same ones calling for McClaren's head if we finish 10th. Short memories. This is still a damaged team. As 16.67% of those who have voted for top 2 I must take objection to this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, EssendonRam said: A bit of a sober reality check. Kudos for sticking your neck out and saying it. I don't quite agree in one sense; we are entitled to aim for the Top 6. We are even entitled to "expect" to get there given form and where we are situated. We SHOULD be aiming for the Top 6 in fact. Any further than that (ie autos) is entirely dependant on major stumbles from Newcastle and/or Brighton. However, it is easy to ignore (a) just how 'streaky' form can be in the championship; (b) that, although we've improved greatly under McClaren, we've still been 'wobbly' at times and our recent draw has been favourable (until Norwich, who are badly out-of-form); (c) that our squad is still unbalanced in key areas and heavily reliant on Ince and Hughes' class; and (d) we're highly susceptible to fluctuations in confidence. That said, I absolutely agree with your description of us as "a damaged team". I've long argued that we're brittle in terms of confidence; that, despite our defensive record, our defensive frailty could expose us badly at any time, especially against the better quality teams; and expectations of this squad - and, therefore, the pressure we heap upon them when they stumble (as they inevitably will) - are too high. They - our expectations - border on schizophrenic and the team's collapsed under their weight for the last few seasons. I'd go one step further too; I remain concerned at the evident 'player power' in the club and, as much as I adore McClaren as our manager (and always have), I still fear how the relationship between he and the club and fans will cope if form/results turn awry. As someone who has advocated getting rid of a number of current players, this probably comes across as contradictory, but the last time SM was here, the squad was impacted by the introduction of loan players. I hope that if he does bring people in, they are those looking to get us up and not just to take the money. I think like you that there are one or two who crumble under pressure but a few have also been replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I just want to see good football. If we make the top six, which IMO is still a tough ask given our start, then great but I don't really care much for the PL so wouldn't be too disappointed if we missed out again. I'm also not getting carried away with our current form. McClaren has made an excellent start considering, but let's not forget we've played five at home and only two away of his seven games. I will wait to see where we are after the Leeds away game on Friday 13th Jan. We will have played everybody by then (including Leeds and Norwich twice) and will have played 26 games - 13 away and 13 home. If with 20 games left and equal home and away and we're still within three points of the top six, then I can consider a playoff spot a genuine target for this season and will be optimistic of reaching them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 The aim should be finishing in the top 6 and promotion. Which let's be clear would mean having a bloody good season given the mess we were left in by the previous incumbent. The minimum expectation should be to finish in the top 10, play decent football and have a platform to launch off next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, eddie said: It's not difficult (the maths, that is). I can do maths look - If Cardiff beat Brighton tomorrow and Derby beat Wigan - then the 12 point gap becomes 9 points. A couple of weekends like that and those at the top are going to start looking over their shoulders. Let's be clear - I'm not head in the clouds expecting miracles - I know Brighton are doing exceptionally well and Newcastle are way above everyone else - but if we keep winning games then we'll be well placed to nick second if them seagulls slip up. I just don't think many Brighton fans would agree with some on here who think Brighton are 100% guaranteed that second spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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