Derby v Liverpool (Leicester v Dortmund)

[jono]

I only have one real criticism of our players. It is common to most of them and is a pre Pearson issue that has gone on through Mac, Clement and DW. 

We can talk about touch, willingness, effort, skill level. All these things are very much match depenedent and in some cases down to facing strong opponents such as Liverpool last night.

The one area where continually fail is movement off the ball. Even from basic throw ins our players are too static .. Never bouncing from foot to foot to unsettle opponents. When our player has the ball where are his team mates peeling off in to space ? and when they do, the man with the ball doesn't pick him out soon enough, or ever !  Last night against players who do this as instinct, highlighted what for me is our clearest and most consistent weakness. 

Apart from a goal we were no worse than against Man U. There was a bit more fight in the Chelsea game but I think Liverpool played nearer to their maximum against us while Chelsea and Man U always seemed to have another gear if they had needed it. 

[DerbyRevolution]

5 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Spot on. Thing is its really easy to work out yet Pearson wasn't able to instil this passion and enthusiasm in us. Stand off them, play poorly and get battered vs get stuck in, press, get men forward quickly , play well and with heart and get battered. For over 70 quid for a family of 3 the least I expect is the latter. Gulf on class or not. Pearson let the fans down last night. The man doesn't appear to have any passion in him. I'm not one of these who thinks managers going mad on the touchline is necessarily a good thing but the bloke looks empty inside. Klopp is fantastic, a great communicator, bundle of energy and drive and encouragement. Just an observation.

agree. I think he's trying too hard not to tell someone to f*&k off and die or throat someone that's it holding back his qualities. I want him to come out and lay into Owen Bradley for no reason. What made Pearson good I fear he's got rid of it.

[unclej]

Owen Bradley is doing his level best not to ask any difficult questions of any Derby manager. He allows them to make presentations, following a short, trite intro from him. 

 

[unclej]

1 hour ago, Warren Hobhead said:

I'm not slating him. But he was badly at fault for at least the first two goals, and the first one (the key goal) was the sort of defending I'd expect to see from a novice making his debut at L2 level, not an international centre back and club captain of many years experience. 

Keogh is just dreadful. He stalks around in that silly posture with his 'wings down' and has no idea what is going off around him. He was skinned alive yesterday and showed his lack of quality time and again. 

[unclej]

Thought Butterfield tried hard and Peace seemed to take the goals against him personally, That is a start.  

[mrdave85]

From my seat in North Stand, we were terribly outclassed.

Lots of moans around me about not pressing them, and to a point I agree, Bent, Weimann and Hughes all got at the centre backs who were clearly uncomfortable in possession, but when we pressed them further up their passing ability just exploited the space everyone left. No one tracked Moreno when he just guided into space all night, he made runs they didn't plan for or expect him to do, he was always in space to receive the ball to start the attack again. 

It appeared to me a catch 22, if we sat back and soaked up pressure, they had enough quality to strike from distance or wait. If we pressed, they simply glided through us like we weren't there. 

I thought BJ put in the most effort, his touches were heavy but I got the impression he is playing with a weight on his shoulders. Hughes tried hard but ultimately had no effect on the game, he reminded me of Rooney, always there and showing for the ball but never in his position. Bent won most of his headers, and a few times Weimann could have got on the end of the flick on (I really hope we're not going to become a long ball team). 

Mitchell was very quiet, seems to have potential but didn't want to bark orders at Keogh or Pearce. Keogh's confidence drained after their first, but Pearce looked the most accomplished. Olsson comitted himself too many times and left so much space for Clyne he could have grazed a cow. Elsnik & Lowe looked like capable players. I felt sorry for Ince, he made a number of good runs off the ball but Christie didn't release him. Ince also busted his gut getting back on a number of occasions. 

To summarise, I thought we were outclassed, the result was as expected. 

Oh and finally, I'm not keen on having all 10 men back for corners, I remember one not clearing Butterfield who then had time to look up, but no one was there. He had to just punt it clear where if we had say Weimann hovering up field, there could have been a break. 

[Sparkle]

10 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

why should it be free to season ticket holders....?? you don't get cup games....if you did get cup games then the season ticket would be more expensive....do you not get it...??? the days of season ticket holders "paying the players wages" etc are long long gone...you get what you pay for, if you want more.....pay more.

so many people want something for nothing 

Hi, I do get it totally but my point was that it was nothing but an extremely lame pre season type of event.

[AutoWindscreens]

2 hours ago, Dimmu said:

I'm trying to find some positives..

- Some first team experience for Mitchell, Lowe and Elsnik.

- Johnson and Bent, both played alright.

- Pearson hopefully realized Hughes shouldn't be playing so far upfront.

- we can concentrate on league from now on...

And Rammie made a new friend:

[Tony Le Mesmer]

33 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Hi, I do get it totally but my point was that it was nothing but an extremely lame pre season type of event.

We weren't to know that though prior to were we Sparkle? It could have turned out to be a cracking 3-2 to Derby and we'd have all been saying how much value for money it was and those who didn't go regretting it. Them's the breaks. (hate that phrase but use it anyway )

[mrdave85]

and I hate to bring up the early leavers, but there were people in North Stand leaving at the 78 minute mark! 

I get we were 3-0 down and the game was over, but leaving with 12 minutes to play? 

[VulcanRam]

13 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

and I hate to bring up the early leavers, but there were people in North Stand leaving at the 78 minute mark! 

I get we were 3-0 down and the game was over, but leaving with 12 minutes to play? 

I actually looked around in the 85th minute and was surprised at the amount of people not leaving. In a league game, the place is emptying out fast by then regardless of whether we are winning, drawing or losing. That I don't understand, esp if we are winning or the game has a one goal difference in it.

Last night leaving on 78 minutes I could easily understand, esp if you have kids with you. There was nothing, and never was going to be, anything to stay for.

[sage]

16 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

and I hate to bring up the early leavers, but there were people in North Stand leaving at the 78 minute mark! 

I get we were 3-0 down and the game was over, but leaving with 12 minutes to play? 

They have children and it's a school night?

[VulcanRam]

19 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

We weren't to know that though prior to were we Sparkle? It could have turned out to be a cracking 3-2 to Derby and we'd have all been saying how much value for money it was and those who didn't go regretting it. Them's the breaks. (hate that phrase but use it anyway )

Much as I love you Tony, get a grip son .

I had 0-4 so technically they did better than I'd thought they would. Except in reality they didn't.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

4 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Much as I love you Tony, get a grip son .

I had 0-4 so technically they did better than I'd thought they would. Except in reality they didn't.

Talking about getting a grip. I put a tenner on us to be winning at half time at 7/1!

In all fairness, Liverpool were on another planet. The speed they zipped the ball around made our lads look like robots without Duracell batteries fitted! Incredible. Still thought we'd create a few decent openings ourselves though which was the ultimate disappointment of the evening.

[mrdave85]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

They have children 

Not any I saw leaving at that time. Mostly grumpy middle aged blokes 

[sage]

Just now, mrdave85 said:

Not any I saw leaving at that time. Mostly grumpy middle aged blokes 

They will be teachers. They will have school too. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

34 minutes ago, sage said:

They will be teachers. They will have school too. 

Or from Hampshire - who having looked at their phones for traffic info realise there are many miles of roadworks and road closures between them and home.....

[North_Stand_Ram]

Am I the only one who thought Johnson had a really good game? Only guy getting stuck in... I'd start him on Saturday...

[ronnieronalde]

14 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Do you think criticism only happens inside the stadium on match days? 

Do yourself a favour, hang around speak to players. They get abused in petrol stations, in pubs, on social media, picking their kids up from school.

I'd assume only by total ****** and clowns who have no class.

What kind of person do you need to be to think that kind of things is ok. You'd have to be a total ****.

[Ninos]

3 hours ago, jono said:

I only have one real criticism of our players. It is common to most of them and is a pre Pearson issue that has gone on through Mac, Clement and DW. 

We can talk about touch, willingness, effort, skill level. All these things are very much match depenedent and in some cases down to facing strong opponents such as Liverpool last night.

The one area where continually fail is movement off the ball. Even from basic throw ins our players are too static .. Never bouncing from foot to foot to unsettle opponents. When our player has the ball where are his team mates peeling off in to space ? and when they do, the man with the ball doesn't pick him out soon enough, or ever !  Last night against players who do this as instinct, highlighted what for me is our clearest and most consistent weakness. 

Apart from a goal we were no worse than against Man U. There was a bit more fight in the Chelsea game but I think Liverpool played nearer to their maximum against us while Chelsea and Man U always seemed to have another gear if they had needed it. 

Nailed it ! We are as static as a foosball team. It's shocking and was true under Clement too. There was a play yesterday where coutinho drifted to the right wing and stood there and Klopp lost his mind - screaming at coutinho to make a reverse run - to not be static and predictable. He used hand signals.  Thought that was quite telling - that Klopp enforces off the ball movement.

Aside from Hughes Bryso and Thorne we don't have players who move and who have vision. Butterfield is the most static player and players like Weimann and Russell just react, then chase after balls. I give Martin credit for that - he played balls into spaces for runners - but we need off the ball movement desperately and the players never get open unless it's on the wing.