RadioactiveWaste Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Totally not true. Totally only sort of true, but the man is a toxic little hole. If he'd just carried himself a bit better he would probably get a whole lot better review of actual relative success - Jewell was far far worse as a manager. But, Davies is a manager who's level is championship, style ends up causing friction and has never done anything on a limited budget - "club whoes ambition matches my own" read I want to spend your money. spend your money. And Adam "trustworthy" Pearson described him as"smoke and mirrors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Totally not true. He was the mastermind behind the worst season in professional English football, I think the title fits him. What's more is that the damage he did took around half a decade to fix. The club were far worse off for having him as manager, I don't really see how you could justify him as anything but one of our very worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 3 hours ago, Albert said: He was the mastermind behind the worst season in professional English football, I think the title fits him. What's more is that the damage he did took around half a decade to fix. The club were far worse off for having him as manager, I don't really see how you could justify him as anything but one of our very worst. Why can you not accept, there was no mastermind behind anything. He was given a 20th placed budget, less than what Bournemouth spent, less than Villa spent this season and Any team in PL history that has been promoted and survived. If you stepped into s boxing ring to fight with a blindfold on and your fists behind your back, you will lose. Also, you do realise there's more in professional football than just the Premier League. Just cos sky used to make out is the only league, it isn't. We were the worst team in TOP FLIGHT history only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 You can't compare 2007 market prices with today's. It's just not how prices have worked out. I bought a house in 1997 for £30,000. In 2010 I bought one for £120,000. It wasn't four times the house of the first one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Why can you not accept, there was no mastermind behind anything. He was given a 20th placed budget, less than what Bournemouth spent, less than Villa spent this season and Any team in PL history that has been promoted and survived. You need some lessons on economics my friend obviously you've never hear of inflation talk to George Osborne 7 million quid spent on Clod and Earnshaw then is probably worth double/triple that now, invalid argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: You can't compare 2007 market prices with today's. It's just not how prices have worked out. I bought a house in 1997 for £30,000. In 2010 I bought one for £120,000. It wasn't four times the house of the first one though. 1 hour ago, Inglorius said: You need some lessons on economics my friend obviously you've never hear of inflation talk to George Osborne 7 million quid spent on Clod and Earnshaw then is probably worth double/triple that now, invalid argument Remember Cox spending £13m in 92/93 and failing to get promotion? Inflation my big hairy arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Remember Cox spending £13m in 92/93 and failing to get promotion? Inflation my big hairy arse. And your point is apart from your bushy sphincter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: Why can you not accept, there was no mastermind behind anything. He was given a 20th placed budget, less than what Bournemouth spent, less than Villa spent this season and Any team in PL history that has been promoted and survived. If you stepped into s boxing ring to fight with a blindfold on and your fists behind your back, you will lose. Also, you do realise there's more in professional football than just the Premier League. Just cos sky used to make out is the only league, it isn't. We were the worst team in TOP FLIGHT history only! ...wait woah, less than what Bournemouth spent? You mean the way teams spend has changed drastically in the past near decade? What we spent at the time wasn't exactly stellar, but at the same time was no excuse and never any excuse for what was to follow. Even no transfer activity would not be an excuse, it was a disaster beyond any reason, and it was masterminded by Billy. It was his team, he was the one who had them for a summer and pre season, and it's his name that will be forever attached to that most dramatic of failures. We weren't just relegated, we were humiliated to an extend that has not been matched and is unlikely to ever be matched, you can't blame that on the transfer spend. We weren't even the lowest spenders in the league that season. It's actually worth a look into what other professional teams have done worse than that. To my understanding it is one of the worst points totals by a professional team at any level. I'd be interested to see if you have any worse examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Remember Cox spending £13m in 92/93 and failing to get promotion? Inflation my big hairy arse. Wait, do you actually not believe inflation is a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yes i do. But peanuts is peanuts regardless of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 35 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Yes i do. But peanuts is peanuts regardless of time. Derby 07/08 Prem season spent £12m in the summer finished with 11 points Birmingham 07/08 Prem season spent £14m in the summer finished with 35 points. Hull City 08/09 Prem season spent £7m in the summer finished with 35 points and survived. Burnley 09/10 Prem season spent £7m in the summer and finished with 30 points. Birmingham 09/10 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 50 points and survived. Wolves 09/10 Prem season spent £14m in the summer and finished with 38 points and survived. Blackpool 10/11 Prem season spent £4m in the summer and finished with 39 points. West Brom 10/11 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 47 points and survived. I could keep going, but to spout this nonsense that Billy Davies worked on peanuts in the Prem is absurd considering so many clubs have spent similar amounts or significantly less and did miles better then Billy Daives ever did. Davies was a massive failure in the Prem and can never use money as an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: Derby 07/08 Prem season spent £12m in the summer finished with 11 points Birmingham 07/08 Prem season spent £14m in the summer finished with 35 points. Hull City 08/09 Prem season spent £7m in the summer finished with 35 points and survived. Burnley 09/10 Prem season spent £7m in the summer and finished with 30 points. Birmingham 09/10 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 50 points and survived. Wolves 09/10 Prem season spent £14m in the summer and finished with 38 points and survived. Blackpool 10/11 Prem season spent £4m in the summer and finished with 39 points. West Brom 10/11 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 47 points and survived. I could keep going, but to spout this nonsense that Billy Davies worked on peanuts in the Prem is absurd considering so many clubs have spent similar amounts or significantly less and did miles better then Billy Daives ever did. Davies was a massive failure in the Prem and can never use money as an excuse. Thankyou for taking the time to root out the facts that I didn't have the motivation to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 54 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Yes i do. But peanuts is peanuts regardless of time. Again, we weren't even the lowest spenders that season, and at the time it was a sizable amount spent. It wasn't massive, and it certainly wasn't enough to expect survival, but teams have survived with "worse" squads on paper going into the season, and no lack of spending justifies the disaster that Billy created. For the record, inflation in football is extremely important to take into account in these kinds of discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Wow, 10 pages on Billy. One more and we'll be on 11 again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, TheDeadlySaul said: Derby 07/08 Prem season spent £12m in the summer finished with 11 points Birmingham 07/08 Prem season spent £14m in the summer finished with 35 points. Hull City 08/09 Prem season spent £7m in the summer finished with 35 points and survived. Burnley 09/10 Prem season spent £7m in the summer and finished with 30 points. Birmingham 09/10 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 50 points and survived. Wolves 09/10 Prem season spent £14m in the summer and finished with 38 points and survived. Blackpool 10/11 Prem season spent £4m in the summer and finished with 39 points. West Brom 10/11 Prem season spent £10m in the summer and finished with 47 points and survived. I could keep going, but to spout this nonsense that Billy Davies worked on peanuts in the Prem is absurd considering so many clubs have spent similar amounts or significantly less and did miles better then Billy Daives ever did. Davies was a massive failure in the Prem and can never use money as an excuse. All good statistics, thanks for researching them, but it doesn't reflect anywhere what the squad was like before he spent the money, without looking I would be sure that all the teams you mention all had better squads than Derby when they got promoted. He worked absolute miracles to get that squad to top division.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Unfinished business part 2 about to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 there's not a manager alive who could inherit a squad that Billy did, get promoted on the budget Billy had and then survive in the PL with the budget he had. No argument to be had. also @Albert (forgive me if I am wrong) but Billy took over a team that finished 20th the previous season, not in the top six as I think you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: there's not a manager alive who could inherit a squad that Billy did, get promoted on the budget Billy had and then survive in the PL with the budget he had. No argument to be had. also @Albert (forgive me if I am wrong) but Billy took over a team that finished 20th the previous season, not in the top six as I think you said. Did you see the Blackpool side of 09/10? There attack consisted of players like Luke Varney and DJ Campell and they managed to do so much better. You can say that he didn't have big enough transfer budget, but even with the one he was given he completely wasted it on zero players that improved us. Imagine who he could've bought with £20m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: Did you see the Blackpool side of 09/10? There attack consisted of players like Luke Varney and DJ Campell and they managed to do so much better. You can say that he didn't have big enough transfer budget, but even with the one he was given he completely wasted it on zero players that improved us. Imagine who he could've bought with £20m? they used the money we gave them for Barker and bought Charlie Adam, who got about 18 goals and got them up. They came back down, albeit not embarrasingly, but they used the loan market reasonably well and performed quite well. Now don't get me wrong, this is the part of the other argument going on. Billy's football wouldn't survive in the PL without massive investment, and that I am convinced. The current owner doesn't want the current team to go up playing that type of football. I am not in the @MuespachRam camp of wanting Billy Davies back. I would rather have 5 seasons of flirting with promotion playing awesome stuff and not get there than get up and be also rans and feel that pain and humiliation. But, even as much as I despise Billy, I would be lying to myself, and I struggle to abide anyone else saying that a) there was no good football under Billy, and b) he ruined Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: Why can you not accept, there was no mastermind behind anything. He was given a 20th placed budget, less than what Bournemouth spent, less than Villa spent this season and Any team in PL history that has been promoted and survived. If you stepped into s boxing ring to fight with a blindfold on and your fists behind your back, you will lose. Also, you do realise there's more in professional football than just the Premier League. Just cos sky used to make out is the only league, it isn't. We were the worst team in TOP FLIGHT history only! It wasn't TOP FLIGHT history only I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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