Billy Davies "can't wait" for Billy Davies to return to football management

[Mostyn6]

you're entitled to your opinion @Mr Tibbs but I wholly disagree. So much so, that if you was to take the 10-12, maybe even 15 best performances of the promotion season, and compare to the same number of best games under ANY season under Clough, or this season under Clement, the Davies promotion season wins hands down for both flair and professionalism. We were awesome until ahead under Billy. I recall Sheff Utd at home, Barnsley where Barnes got a couple, WBA at home, Colchester at home, Ipswich at home, Norwich away, Sunderland games, Cardiff at home and the play-off away at Southampton were great performances, and at the time some of these opponents were the top teams in the division.

It's too easy to judge Davies' play-off season by his part of our premier league season. But they are separate. We were never at the races in the Prem.

[Albert]

6 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I love the level of exaggeration here.

Billy did NO harm to Derby.

Yes he was poisonous, but it was very convenient to blame him for the shortcomings of Jewell, Clough, Gadsby, Pearson and anyone else for a few years after.

Sure, he blew money on Claude, but that was going rate in the Premier League and Billy had nothing to do with the amount paid.

For the best part of the last decade, the name 'Derby County' has been synonymous with failure around the globe because of him. 

You can't blame that season on Jewell, and I don't know how you can call it "shortcomings of Clough", that's just bizarre. Billy was the architect of what happened. He was the one that started and set up the worst season we've ever had. 

He's got one plus point to his career, and that was promotion with us, and he went right ahead and ruined that one. It's hardly surprising that nobody wants him. 

[Inglorius]

3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

It's too easy to judge Davies' play-off season by his part of our premier league season. But they are separate. We were never at the races in the Prem.

You can't divorce one from the other, just because Davies took us up to the Premiership it didn't give him the right to make the season into a totally abject failure whichever metric you applied to our season's appearance in the top flight

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

For the best part of the last decade, the name 'Derby County' has been synonymous with failure around the globe because of him. 

You can't blame that season on Jewell, and I don't know how you can call it "shortcomings of Clough", that's just bizarre. Billy was the architect of what happened. He was the one that started and set up the worst season we've ever had. 

He's got one plus point to his career, and that was promotion with us, and he went right ahead and ruined that one. It's hardly surprising that nobody wants him. 

sorry Albert, you're normally a man of sense and accuracy.

Go to a chef with a piece of mouldy bread and a tomato and ask him to do a Sunday roast and he's bound to fail.

If anything Derby ruined Billy Davies' name, not the other way around (although he's done himself no favours since).

I challenged @Derby_EnglandLoyal to list what Billy actually did to harm Derby, and I challenge you to do the same. When it comes to it, it's just a blame culture. He bought in players to secure promotion, that has to be judged as success, then he tried to fill the squad in the Premier League with no budget, and even then, he got a win and couple of draws. He then left. The squad was poor, but that was equally down to lack of investment, and a poor squad he inherited. The squad would have been poor regardless of manager, but maybe languishing in the Championship under a different manager.

It's like qualifying in the Ford Escort race around Donington Park, then being asked to race with the formula one cars!

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

You can't divorce one from the other, just because Davies took us up to the Premiership it didn't give him the right to make the season into a totally abject failure whichever metric you applied to our season's appearance in the top flight

are you suggesting he deliberately didn't spend the money the club couldn't afford to give him on the quality players that didn't want to come?

Inglorious, this is absolute nonsense. Derby didn't stand a chance. You go and run 100m sprint against the Olympic finalists, I guarantee you'll come last. Doesn't mean you purposely lost!

[Inglorius]

3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

are you suggesting he deliberately didn't spend the money the club couldn't afford to give him on the quality players that didn't want to come?

Inglorious, this is absolute nonsense. Derby didn't stand a chance. You go and run 100m sprint against the Olympic finalists, I guarantee you'll come last. Doesn't mean you purposely lost!

£3 million for Clod Davis and £3.5 million for Earnshaw to warm the bench enough said

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

sorry Albert, you're normally a man of sense and accuracy.

Go to a chef with a piece of mouldy bread and a tomato and ask him to do a Sunday roast and he's bound to fail.

If anything Derby ruined Billy Davies' name, not the other way around (although he's done himself no favours since).

I challenged @Derby_EnglandLoyal to list what Billy actually did to harm Derby, and I challenge you to do the same. When it comes to it, it's just a blame culture. He bought in players to secure promotion, that has to be judged as success, then he tried to fill the squad in the Premier League with no budget, and even then, he got a win and couple of draws. He then left. The squad was poor, but that was equally down to lack of investment, and a poor squad he inherited. The squad would have been poor regardless of manager, but maybe languishing in the Championship under a different manager.

It's like qualifying in the Ford Escort race around Donington Park, then being asked to race with the formula one cars!

That "culture" you write off as nothing resulted in us being a laughing stock globally, and took years for us to sort our house so to speak. If you're going to praise him for promotion, you have to equally make sure he takes the blame for one of the worst relegation on record. You can't have have one. 

The players he brought in during January actually made the squad worse, and to be blunt about it, pretty much every time he touched the squad after that first summer was a disaster. It's odd you don't mention that yourself. His changes at that time didn't help and we fell off the pace greatly, having to settle for the playoffs after looking a serious chance for going up in the autos. 

Don't pretend his squad was all awful as well. That's largely rewriting history to fit the narrative to "well how was he ever meant to survive". Howard and Oakley were masterstrokes of signings, and the effect of Barnes is not to be underestimated. This wasn't some side he picked up battered and bruised from the mud and molded with his bare hands in a masterpiece. He took a side that had an awful season previously, but the one before were 4th. He made a couple of inspired signings at first, set us up for promotion with ugly, but effective football and despite his own mistakes in January managed to somehow win at Wembley. 

[Papahet]

A 15 million quid transfer kitty, after getting us promoted in his first season here was a insult to the man, it's true. Especially when you had Lupoli whose loan was up, an aging Peschisolido, Moore and Michael Johnson nearing the end of their careers and a massive amount of inexperience in Leacock, Mceverley, Jones and Barnes.

Taking Preston to a Championship play off final was an achievement in itself.

[Albert]

3 minutes ago, Papahet said:

A 15 million quid transfer kitty, after getting us promoted in his first season here was a insult to the man, it's true. Especially when you had Lupoli whose loan was up, an aging Peschisolido, Moore and Michael Johnson nearing the end of their careers and a massive amount of inexperience in Leacock, Mceverley, Jones and Barnes.

Taking Preston to a Championship play off final was an achievement in itself.

£15 million was no small figure for that season, especially considering that he's already spent something of the order of £5 million the previous season. Another example of rewriting history to fit the narrative people want, he had a lot to spend in the Championship by the days standards, and he had a decent figure to spend in the Premier League. None of that was an excuse for what was to follow. 

[cannable]

3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I recall Sheff Utd at home

Not very clearly, they were in the Premiership that season! 

[Mostyn6]

16 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

£3 million for Clod Davis and £3.5 million for Earnshaw to warm the bench enough said

£3m going rate for a Premier League defender then, but yeah, Billy the only manager in the history of football to make a bad buy.

Earnshaw wasn't wanted by Davies, why would he pick him.

[Albert]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

£3m going rate for a Premier League defender then, but yeah, Billy the only manager in the history of football to make a bad buy.

Earnshaw wasn't wanted by Davies, why would he pick him.

Because we were neck deep in the mess he created and could probably have used a reliable goalscorer. 

[Inglorius]

7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

£3m going rate for a Premier League defender then, but yeah, Billy the only manager in the history of football to make a bad buy.

Earnshaw wasn't wanted by Davies, why would he pick him.

Lol the words Claude Davis and Premier League defender in the same sentence are mutually exclusive he may have played in the Premier League but he wasn't a Premier League calibre player.

Puerile argument about Earnshaw too if he had better forwards than Earnshaw available then fair enough don't pick him I dont remember us breaking any scoring records that season though

[Mostyn6]

33 minutes ago, Albert said:

That "culture" you write off as nothing resulted in us being a laughing stock globally, and took years for us to sort our house so to speak. If you're going to praise him for promotion, you have to equally make sure he takes the blame for one of the worst relegation on record. You can't have have one. 

The players he brought in during January actually made the squad worse, and to be blunt about it, pretty much every time he touched the squad after that first summer was a disaster. It's odd you don't mention that yourself. His changes at that time didn't help and we fell off the pace greatly, having to settle for the playoffs after looking a serious chance for going up in the autos. 

Don't pretend his squad was all awful as well. That's largely rewriting history to fit the narrative to "well how was he ever meant to survive". Howard and Oakley were masterstrokes of signings, and the effect of Barnes is not to be underestimated. This wasn't some side he picked up battered and bruised from the mud and molded with his bare hands in a masterpiece. He took a side that had an awful season previously, but the one before were 4th. He made a couple of inspired signings at first, set us up for promotion with ugly, but effective football and despite his own mistakes in January managed to somehow win at Wembley. 

sounds like your opinion is based on other (outsider) opinion rather than fact!

I mentioned the quality of the promotion squad a few posts earlier, but none of those you mention would be considered Prem Quality. Masterstrokes at Championship level. When you say "every time he touched the squad..", this is a bit confusing and nonsensical. He bought in Bywater late, then Pearson, then McEveley, then Jones (3 of which had renewed contracts under Clough 3 years later). Then he bought Fagan and Teale, and Macken and Currie. Maybe some others, but you have to acknowledge he inherited a squad very short on numbers, and tried to strengthen.

17 minutes ago, Albert said:

£15 million was no small figure for that season, especially considering that he's already spent something of the order of £5 million the previous season. Another example of rewriting history to fit the narrative people want, he had a lot to spend in the Championship by the days standards, and he had a decent figure to spend in the Premier League. None of that was an excuse for what was to follow. 

I think he spent about £7m gaining promotion, but don't even try and argue that is a lot of money! Sunderland spent that on just Gordon and Jones, in fact probably more, and they already had a few PL level players in their squad. Derby had no chance.

16 minutes ago, cannable said:

Not very clearly, they were in the Premiership that season! 

I think I was typing too quickly, I probably meant Sheff Weds,and Southend Utd. 

10 minutes ago, Albert said:

Because we were neck deep in the mess he created and could probably have used a reliable goalscorer. 

Neck deep? We'd JUST been promoted. Earnshaw was first signing.

9 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

Lol the words Claude Davis and Premier League defender in the same sentence are mutually exclusive he may have played in the Premier League but he wasn't a Premier League calibre player.

Puerile argument about Earnshaw too if he had better forwards than Earnshaw available then fair enough don't pick him I dont remember us breaking any scoring records that season though

That's your opinion. I remember Darren Moore arguing that you cannot say he isn't a PL player cos he is playing in the PL. Davis WAS a PL defender, just a bad one.

So you think Earnshaw was a great player then?

[Inglorius]

7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

That's your opinion. I remember Darren Moore arguing that you cannot say he isn't a PL player cos he is playing in the PL. Davis WAS a PL defender, just a bad one.

So you think Earnshaw was a great player then?

Semantics just because Clod played in the Premiership doesn't mean he was a Premiership standard player League 1 perhaps not Premiership. 

No I think Earnshaw was pretty average however that was far better than our other striking options.

What I found totally objectionable about Davies was the string of excuses he trotted out before he left no accountability whatsoever a character trait that has stuck with him and is totally reprehensible 

[Mostyn6]

22 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

Semantics just because Clod played in the Premiership doesn't mean he was a Premiership standard player League 1 perhaps not Premiership. 

No I think Earnshaw was pretty average however that was far better than our other striking options.

What I found totally objectionable about Davies was the string of excuses he trotted out before he left no accountability whatsoever a character trait that has stuck with him and is totally reprehensible 

I'm not going to argue with that, as an opposing view is not the point I am trying to make. Nigel Clough left the club with Connor Sammon, and other managers have left the club with poor players. My argument, or the point I am disputing, is the assertion that Billy Davies harmed Derby County football club. His personality is neither here nor there, as he is a horrible little man, BUT, when it comes to leaving when he did, I reckon 100% of managers would have left the club with some poor players and bottom of the league!

[CWC1983]

21 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Don't think Mel's up for it. 

As for best manager in 15 years? Lol. oh, actually, he probably was. Perhaps Burley under better circumstances might have done more than he did. Clement might go on to show more success, McClaren had good fortune when he came into a very good thing.  But being the best of a mostly uninspiring bunch doesn't make him the right man to come in now. or ever. Send him to Rangers where he belongs.

Anyway, I think Mel said in so many words to the breakfast club that he knows he could go out and hire a manager like Billy Davies to get the club up, but he wants someone who is into his project to make us something perhaps more in the mould of Southampton, as on comfortably mid-prem with a great youth set up and distinctive style of play.

Plus, Billy is a Bawbag.

Ha ha, send him to Sevco, id love to see that train crash happen. He'd give the media all the soundbites they need.

Considering Killie binned him off in favour of Lee Clark sums up.his standing in the game at the moment. 

[Albert]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

sounds like your opinion is based on other (outsider) opinion rather than fact!

I mentioned the quality of the promotion squad a few posts earlier, but none of those you mention would be considered Prem Quality. Masterstrokes at Championship level. When you say "every time he touched the squad..", this is a bit confusing and nonsensical. He bought in Bywater late, then Pearson, then McEveley, then Jones (3 of which had renewed contracts under Clough 3 years later). Then he bought Fagan and Teale, and Macken and Currie. Maybe some others, but you have to acknowledge he inherited a squad very short on numbers, and tried to strengthen.

I think he spent about £7m gaining promotion, but don't even try and argue that is a lot of money! Sunderland spent that on just Gordon and Jones, in fact probably more, and they already had a few PL level players in their squad. Derby had no chance.

Neck deep? We'd JUST been promoted. Earnshaw was first signing.

That's your opinion. I remember Darren Moore arguing that you cannot say he isn't a PL player cos he is playing in the PL. Davis WAS a PL defender, just a bad one.

So you think Earnshaw was a great player then?

You really have run out of points to have a go at if you're resorting to calling me "an outsider". 

The fact that you're arguing that, in your own terms, £7 million wasn't a lot at the time is outrageous and shows just how far you're having to go to defend him at this point. The fact that he spent this on top of a squad that had only a year earlier was already a top 6 side, and ended up... in the top 6 shows that whilst he was brutally efficient in the Championship, he was hardly some wizard. The fact that he's failed to manage promotion elsewhere, even with the spending behind him (i.e. at Forest) shows this in the most emphatic way. He made a couple of good signings in summer and the rest of the "bolstering" was ultimately deadwood that took us a long time to clear out. 

For the record, the money Sunderland spent on Gordon was the British transfer record for a keeper at the time, but don't let that get in your way. 

As for Earnshaw, the question is why he wasn't using him at all, not why he didn't start the season. If Billy's arrogance meant he wasn't an option to him, that's just another mark against his name. 

You can try and spin whatever you want, but Billy Davies ultimately has to go down as one of our outright worst managers, and one of the most damaging, in a long long while. There's no point saying "but promotion" when he was the architect of the following relegation, spunking the money made in that promotion in the process and lumbering us with issues in both the squad and the culture of the club that would take years and multiple managers to fix. 

Say what you will about Jewell, he at least was brave enough to take on the challenge that we presented.

[MuespachRam]

I think I am in love with @Mostyn6.

Billy was great, don't let the fact that he went to Forest cloud your judgement, it only makes you all sound bitter and twisted. 

For goodness sake he got us promoted....and in that squad I would say that only Tyrone Mears would come close to our current squad...and I doubt if he would actually start a game. 

The bloke managed to get us promoted with Darren Moore (one of the slowest, poorest defenders I have ever seen), a bat **** crazy goalie and an average journeyman striker.... And we did it easily, the "we were outplayed by west Brom and didn't deserve to go up" is rubbish, we finished 3rd, I can't be bothered to look it up but I am guessing about 8 points above west Brom.? We were awesome in the play off semi final first leg and battled back again and again in the second. We won a record amount of away games that season didn't we? We were great. 

Thanks Billy.!! 

[Albert]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

I think I am in love with @Mostyn6.

Billy was great, don't let the fact that he went to Forest cloud your judgement, it only makes you all sound bitter and twisted. 

For goodness sake he got us promoted....and in that squad I would say that only Tyrone Mears would come close to our current squad...and I doubt if he would actually start a game. 

The bloke managed to get us promoted with Darren Moore (one of the slowest, poorest defenders I have ever seen), a bat **** crazy goalie and an average journeyman striker.... And we did it easily, the "we were outplayed by west Brom and didn't deserve to go up" is rubbish, we finished 3rd, I can't be bothered to look it up but I am guessing about 8 points above west Brom.? We were awesome in the play off semi final first leg and battled back again and again in the second. We won a record amount of away games that season didn't we? We were great. 

Thanks Billy.!! 

To be honest I think you're being very harsh if you think "only Mears was near this current squad". 

Barnes would have waltzed into this squad the way he played that season, Howard would give Martin a run for his money (though personally I think Martin is the better all round player, Howard would offer something different), while Oakley would be a starter. Don't underestimate some of the experience that was in that squad either, which is something that we're arguably missing in this one. 

To criticise Moore here is odd as well, he was imperious that season, and whilst he didn't have the legs to go again and perform at Premier League level, he was a good defender that season. Bywater is also an odd one, but on his day, and he had them even well after Billy, he was a damn good keeper. Not long before his injury and Fielding came in there was even talk of him being a candidate for number 3 for England, as laughable as that all is now. 

To describe Howard as an "average journeyman striker" is bizarre as well, he was a consistent goalscorer before we got him, and he was our single biggest outlay for a player since our relegation at that point if I remember right. It wasn't a minor transfer of some nobody, we took a gamble on a consistent goalscorer that would fit our plan for the season and it worked. 

You can spin it anyway you want though, we ultimately limped home in a season where we looked up in January. We were 7 points clear at the top in early February.

Again though, whatever you wish to say about the promotion season, you can only judge a manager by where they left you, and Billy left us with arguably half a decades worth of damage and us being further from being a consistent Premier League side than when he started. He was an awful effect on the club, and particularly on it's reputation. I quite frankly like that he went to Forest as he went ahead and dangled the golden carrot in front of them, only to snatch it away from them, and left them in a hole as well. If anything, him going to Forest is a great big tick in the positives column for me.