Kernow Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Haven't read the rest of the thread so not sure if it's already been said but... I'm grateful for the amount of money and passion he's put into this club and will continue to put into this club. However as a fan himself, he probably suffered the mistake of being desperate for promotion and deciding this year was the year to 'buy it' at any cost. Although we may still get promotion one way or another, I feel we would have actually been in a better position with fewer signings, or even the same amount of money spent on different players. Of our signings I'd argue only Carson, Shackell and Butterfield have consistently performed well. That's around £7.5mil of our £25mil spend. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but given the opportunity of say Weimann and Johnson or Andre Gray for example, I would personally go with the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I don't think we know enough about the club to be able to point fingers. But whichever blokes are in charge of identifying transfer targets... Have you actually seen us play? £20m+ on players shows the ammo was there and I massively appreciate what Mel Morris has done there. But that £20m hasn't been spent very well. You can never be sure that a player will settle. But it helps if you buy players you actually need instead of players you want. Players that play within you philosophy. Arsenal could spend £200m and get Ramos, Kompany, Lewandowski. Or they could get Aguero, Suarez and Ibrahimovic and 2 would sit on the bench or be played on the wing. Thanks Mel for the ammo. And a couple of buys like Butterfield have been great. But whoever is aiming the gun and pulling the trigger... dude, you're a poor shot. I imagine it's a collection of people? £20m+ on the team that lost the PO Final and was very good until March last season when, amongst other things, was decimated by injuries in key areas. To a point where back up to the back up was injured. Thorne - Eustace - Omar Martin - Bent Mistakes were made with the ever changing back 4. Was a really panicky back line after all the chopping and changing and pressure. But it shouldn't have been a hard fix. £20m+ well spent and reinforcing key areas. 4 or so real quality players. Players that fit. Not to say we're in a bad way. We'll get there. We've just gone the scattergun approach. Wasting money, wasting players. Is that down to Clement or Morris? Both? Both and others? Neither? I'd point a lot of blame on them though. Such a waste of Mel's money imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wasn't the person responsible for the early signings who are not getting a game drummed out of the club a few months ago. I don't have any problem with signings since PC came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 When the early signings were made it would have been impossible to know how and if Clement would have used them. We heard about the Derby way but there is the Clement way as well, he wouldn't have known much about most of the squad without sitting down and watching hours and hours of DVD's. Could it not be possible that the club knew some of the signings made would not have been wise investments and simply offering Clement a wide range of tools at his disposal? We could put a team out with round pegs in round holes for whatever fancy formation you can imagine. He has more tools than Bob the Builder and not the clones everyone wants that offers us no other options. Clement has come under fire for changing the team and formation but he really needs to be cut some slack here as he hasn't seen the players as much as we have. 6 months into football management no wonder he hasn't a clue what his strongest team is yet and we need to allow him the time to find it and accept the mistakes. The club will have known what they was getting into and it's about time the fans jumped on board and showed a bit more understanding. Dont forget Mel is 6 months into his tenure as a football club owner and will have made mistakes and will make many more as he gains experience. The club is in very good hands with a young and well respected coach, about time we all stopped sounding like ungrateful know it all ***** and listened to Gary Barlow.....have a little patience. A club owner and manager 6 months into their first jobs. Look at the table, look at our squad and woosah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 listened to Gary Barlow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Just now, Yani P said: listened to Gary Barlow Great at avoiding tax, could help us out with FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 12 minutes ago, Daveo said: Great at avoiding tax, could help us out with FFP Aye, from Take That's 1st split until their reunion, I doubt he paid a penny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 In answer to the question:Yes. Has it been perfection: No Will it work out well in time: I have every confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Evening all, not been on for a while. Of course Mel has been great for the club, hes one of our own who bleeds black and white, knows our history and what makes the fans tick. Saying that, like a few others l dont believe the money has been spent well in the right areas (agree with the new LB acquisition though, needed). We seem to have a lot of down the middle forwards being asked to play further wide, cuttting inside on their preferred foot - this can get extremely predictable to defend against. I still dont believe we have any natural wingers at the club despite a huge investment in players being asked to perform this role. We didnt need to buy this many players (even in spite of early season injuries) For me as a fan, l always enjoy and buzz the most during a season when we are expected to do very litttle comparatively but 'over-perform' - the play off final season took most people by surprise in football and l for one really enjoyed it. Not a great deal of investment, a young squad with players from the academy all singing from the same hymn sheet, we 'clicked', they had that understanding, they played for each other (and for us) as a team, a togetherness. No egos, journeymen, players with past reputations. Personally l get less enjoyment when we have in our more recent history thrown the kitchen sink at buying a load of players in the hope it will work - kind of feels a bit like that now. Having spent 30 odd million on players naturally we are one of the favourites for promotion. And so we should be. Teams love to play us at the minute, to try to beat us, get one over on us, make a point. The tabloids love it too, waiting for a big fish to flop. I dont want the journos nor other clubs' fans to see us in this way, l dont want them to think that its their chance to burst the bubble, to humiliate us. We are Derby not the likes of Manure. Any success this season for me is not as merited as it should have been two years ago. Increased investment brings with it high expectations - not always a good thing, people get frustrated far too quickly and look to blame even quicker. Agree or disagree, it doesn't really matter, we'll all more than likely still be here when Mel has gone, we are still the same, still fans who will continue to support this great club during its ups and downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Everyone does things differently and everyone has a certain way of working. The money available can really take this club to the next level, therefore Mel is incredible for the club. The issue, for me, lies in how it has been spent. Now, I don't believe the players we've signed are bad or necessarily bad value for money. I would argue, however, that they don't fit the system in place and many have found themselves surplus to requirements quickly - Pearce is just a laughable example. I definitely think we should have invested a bit more in talented young players with potential. We seem to have gone for experience, which people aired as a concern last season, but I never bought into it. All in all, the players should have been utilised better. Weimann, Blackman, Bent and Johnson don't even have a role in the side. Bradley Johnson could/should have been played wide left rather than through the middle and the former three are strikers that want to either run the channels or hang off the defender's shoulder. Butterfield has been a successful signing purely because he's come into play a role he's comfortable in. Shackell and Carson too. I think that's the difference between the success stories and the not so successful stories thus far. If we were to get a new manager, I almost guarantee that it would be all change again. I'd like to see someone get the best out of Martin, Johnson, Ince and Thorne. Martin Johnson Ince Would be my next punt if I was Clement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburgh ram Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 15 hours ago, climbon said: Slightly devil's advocate but I'm not too sure where I sit on this at the moment. This is not about Cement or our league position at all...simply money! Since talking over we have spent 20 mil plus (even 30??), I for one don't see how the squad is stronger. We seem to be buying up anyone we can in a desperate attempt to get promoted. I don't understand this, Mel says promotion is not a requirement this season at all and that Clement has time to build...if that is the case why do we seem to be spending like it's do or die this season?? Of course Mel puts in the money and the scouting staff and others spend it..but it is Mel's responsibility to ensure those staff members are up to the job! Seems those staff are like kids in a candy (crush) store....living off scraps of money for years then all of a sudden they've won the lottery and just go crazy buying anyone and everyone..the squad has lost it's togetherness. The work on the academy is amazing and I'm sure we will get some quality players....but will they ever play a game if we just buy every time we need a first team player....are we in danger of becoming the Chelsea of the championship. I've no doubt Mel's heart is in the right place...but so is Fawaz's, and look how that turned out! Mel is one of the best things that has happened to the club for a long while, not only providing the club with funds but also providing the fans with extras too eg. The drinks, flags and st prices. He may have stormed into the dressing room according to reports but is he not entitled to that? We had been playing awful a long time before the reading game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 6 hours ago, Daveo said: When the early signings were made it would have been impossible to know how and if Clement would have used them. We heard about the Derby way but there is the Clement way as well, he wouldn't have known much about most of the squad without sitting down and watching hours and hours of DVD's. Could it not be possible that the club knew some of the signings made would not have been wise investments and simply offering Clement a wide range of tools at his disposal? We could put a team out with round pegs in round holes for whatever fancy formation you can imagine. He has more tools than Bob the Builder and not the clones everyone wants that offers us no other options. Clement has come under fire for changing the team and formation but he really needs to be cut some slack here as he hasn't seen the players as much as we have. 6 months into football management no wonder he hasn't a clue what his strongest team is yet and we need to allow him the time to find it and accept the mistakes. The club will have known what they was getting into and it's about time the fans jumped on board and showed a bit more understanding. Dont forget Mel is 6 months into his tenure as a football club owner and will have made mistakes and will make many more as he gains experience. The club is in very good hands with a young and well respected coach, about time we all stopped sounding like ungrateful know it all ***** and listened to Gary Barlow.....have a little patience. A club owner and manager 6 months into their first jobs. Look at the table, look at our squad and woosah. Good post fella. You're right The only thing I think differently about is the clones bit. No club in the world is successful and changes it's tactics and formation often. Most only make slight alterations to get the desired effect. Whether it be this guy playing a bit deeper, this guy playing with tons of freedom or a different guy that offers something slightly different. But no drastic changes. And we've bought enough players for an entire new team. We've got 3 (?) center forwards and 2 haven't made the bench. We keep going to 433 because we're so well rehearsed in it. So it makes no sense to sign not 1, not 2 but 3 strikers who aren't really strong in the lone role. I see your point is kinda "but now Clement can play with 2 up front". But I don't think we're likely to make those big changes. If we do it knocks other players out of fit. If you try to cover every eventuality then I think you end up with a bloated squad and a group of players barely ever used because you always find a majority click into a comfortable system? And you don't want to he replacing any broken down George Thorne with a spare part called Weimann. You want someone who can do what George did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 8 hours ago, Daveo said: When the early signings were made it would have been impossible to know how and if Clement would have used them. We heard about the Derby way but there is the Clement way as well, he wouldn't have known much about most of the squad without sitting down and watching hours and hours of DVD's. Could it not be possible that the club knew some of the signings made would not have been wise investments and simply offering Clement a wide range of tools at his disposal? Thats crackers. It is possible however that those initial signings - carson, baird, pearce, bent, weimann, and ince - were all agreed with mcclaren. The signings make sense from mcclarens perspective. Carson - There were suggestions that he felt he had no real competition for Grant. Baird - schteve seemed to have very limited belief in Christie pearce - Some assumed that pearce was to replace keogh, but perhaps he was to replace bucko if mclaren had decided to get rid of him. bent and ince - were already selected by mclaren and presumably deals were in progress weimann is the interesting one. It does seem strange to have spent £2m on a striker to then only select him 11 times out of 27 and then seem to replace him in january. But not so strange if he was schteve's choice and we were committed to the deal. but...... clement made baird his captain so he must have been reasonably happy with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Two points:- 1 - It's not like either MM or PC are completely new to football 2 - PC was quite low in the betting odds a few months before getting the job. I think it would be naive to say he has no idea about the summer signings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Huge difference in being an assistant to being Numero Uno, same as being a shareholder to owning the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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