Curtains Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: I didn't realise we lived in a serfdom. This isn't North Korea. We are consumers who buy into a product. As consumers are allowed an opinion on how that product is developed and delivered. Get yer head out yer backside. You asked the question, so live with the answers. Actually you need to see who started this thread and it wasn't me so get your facts right . Vulcan you bombed the wrong target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 3 hours ago, Jon_Grooves said: Yeah but if we dont go up this season, the players will have time to bond over pre season and we'll own every dcent player in the championship by then and win te league next season I would have thought 40 games this season would have been enough for the players to bond.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Aircraft pun/joke. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIWY Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Srg said: I hope it is a Warnock replacement. As steady as he's been, we aren't as good a team with him in there and the balance is completely shifted over to the right hand side. Agreed. Like Warnock as a player and he gives his all for the team, but he offers little in terms of attacking and I've noticed often can't get back quick enough when the opposition breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Lol you're right, apologies. redirected @climbon Btw Curtains I don't disagree with you necessarily - I'm not as loved up as you are but I broadly agree with you - the post was more that you don't really cut anyone any slack or see their point of view. But seeing as you didn't even start the thread I apologise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: It's not as simplistic as saying he has been fantastic just because he has spent a lot of money. What he has done for the academy is astounding. But despite all the money being spent do you honestly see youngsters coming through with the way the set up is? I don't. And I will be honest (and probably get slaughtered) but I have lost a bit of the excitement going down the route we have and quite frankly the football is not as good to watch. When we were building a team on low fees, low wages and team spirit I think a lot of us felt part of the project. I think back to sone of the away days in play off season and they were fantastic. These days if we win games it is just as though it should be expected with what we have spent, and if we lose well....you can see how a lot react! So you are telling me that you'd rather not have the money that we have right now to be pushing for promotion? We have a manager who is in his FIRST SEASON OF MANAGEMENT. He plays a secure game for sure, and of course I wish we were a bit more free in attacking and less methodical, but this is a new project for us to get behind. I'd rather have a secure, slightly boring manager than conceding 3 goals and scoring 4. Security is doing wonders for Middlesbrough (who like Derby put a novice manager in, was patient for the first season and it's paying dividends now). Plus we can't tell if we won't be bringing players from the academy through until it happens. There is no way Mel as a businessman is not going to want to see a return on his investment. He'll be pushing to get those players in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 minute ago, VulcanRam said: Lol you're right, apologies. redirected @climbon Btw Curtains I don't disagree with you necessarily - I'm not as loved up as you are but I broadly agree with you - the post was more that you don't really cut anyone any slack or see their point of view. But seeing as you didn't even start the thread I apologise! No hard feelings Over and Out. I love my Aircraft jokes so I'm going to fly low for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Actually think the OP has a valid point to discuss although I wouldn't have phrased the title quite like that. First things first, I don't believe any Derby fan should question Mel Morris or his intentions - he has put a substantial amount of his own cash into the club (both infrastructure & playing staff) because he wants us to succeed & I daresay 99% of this forum, had they the means, would do exactly the same thing. Where the OP has a point, is in questioning whether the amount of cash being lavished on this squad is a wise choice - that in my mind is totally separate to any perceived criticism of Mel Morris. I can't be the only Derby fan who has felt borderline uncomfortable with the sums we've been spending recently & it appears to have created a large squad ripe with potential for disgruntled players not getting game time & a reduction in the kind of cohesive team spirit we've seen since the end of the Jewell era. Time & time again it has been proven that throwing cash at football teams is no guarantee of success. The best football teams & most successful clubs tend to grow organically, with a large smattering of home grown talent/lower league step ups allied to top quality purchases in positions where reinforcements are needed. There's also a history lesson from our own club when you compare the team created by Lionel Pickering's spending spree of 1992-94, with the carefully moulded side of lower league signings allied with quality in key areas used by Jim Smith in the promotion team of 1995/96. Have Sam Rush & Clement been too reckless in their choice of signings? I suspect in hindsight there's 3/4 players who they probably wish they could unsign (Pearce, Weimann & Bent immediately spring to mind) but what I want to see now is Clement working with what he has (no more signings other than critical cover) & paying more regard to youth players coming through - other than Hanson, that area seems to have been thoroughly neglected in the chase for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 15 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Actually think the OP has a valid point to discuss although I wouldn't have phrased the title quite like that. First things first, I don't believe any Derby fan should question Mel Morris or his intentions - he has put a substantial amount of his own cash into the club (both infrastructure & playing staff) because he wants us to succeed & I daresay 99% of this forum, had they the means, would do exactly the same thing. Where the OP has a point, is in questioning whether the amount of cash being lavished on this squad is a wise choice - that in my mind is totally separate to any perceived criticism of Mel Morris. I can't be the only Derby fan who has felt borderline uncomfortable with the sums we've been spending recently & it appears to have created a large squad ripe with potential for disgruntled players not getting game time & a reduction in the kind of cohesive team spirit we've seen since the end of the Jewell era. Time & time again it has been proven that throwing cash at football teams is no guarantee of success. The best football teams & most successful clubs tend to grow organically, with a large smattering of home grown talent/lower league step ups allied to top quality purchases in positions where reinforcements are needed. There's also a history lesson from our own club when you compare the team created by Lionel Pickering's spending spree of 1992-94, with the carefully moulded side of lower league signings allied with quality in key areas used by Jim Smith in the promotion team of 1995/96. Have Sam Rush & Clement been too reckless in their choice of signings? I suspect in hindsight there's 3/4 players who they probably wish they could unsign (Pearce, Weimann & Bent immediately spring to mind) but what I want to see now is Clement working with what he has (no more signings other than critical cover) & paying more regard to youth players coming through - other than Hanson, that area seems to have been thoroughly neglected in the chase for promotion. You don't know if the Rams will be a success and get promoted to the Premier League with respect its far too early to say as we have 18 games left this season and Mel is building for this season and future seasons. It's not rocket science if we don't make it this season we go again next season and then the next. The academy is already attracting top players to the club and it's being extended and made state of the art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Shang said: So you are telling me that you'd rather not have the money that we have right now to be pushing for promotion? We have a manager who is in his FIRST SEASON OF MANAGEMENT. He plays a secure game for sure, and of course I wish we were a bit more free in attacking and less methodical, but this is a new project for us to get behind. I'd rather have a secure, slightly boring manager than conceding 3 goals and scoring 4. Security is doing wonders for Middlesbrough (who like Derby put a novice manager in, was patient for the first season and it's paying dividends now). Plus we can't tell if we won't be bringing players from the academy through until it happens. There is no way Mel as a businessman is not going to want to see a return on his investment. He'll be pushing to get those players in the first team. All I care about is watching decent football on a Saturday afternoon. Has all of the money Mel has spent improved that for me? No. I still turn up and support the team so I am behind the project. Before I was proud of the project, these days I feel it is more like one that I have spent the previous 5 or 10 years slating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Mel has not been good for this club. he has been EXCEPTIONAL for this club! I have never thought so highly of someone who i have not met! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 No one could question Mel's commitment, intention or integrity. He is a brilliant owner. I firmly believe that he will propel my club to heights that we've not even dared dream about since Tommy Docherty's insane vandalism. In my book, Mel Morris is a hero. However, he's not infallible. Although he's gotten far more right than wrong, he has made a few mistakes - who doesn't though. I'd say his biggest error was not instantly halting the summer recruitment until a manager was in post and up to speed. Since Clement has been actually running things, we've signed replacements for long-term injured players (Johnson, Butterfield, Olsson), a goal scoring striker to offer an alternative to Martin (Blackman) and a bright young winger (Camara) - which is a position that we've been clearly lacking all season. To me, all those signings make perfect sense. It's only because they've come after a lot of pretty haphazard summer signings that people are questioning things. The net effect is that we've wasted a lot of money, but I do think Mel has actually sorted out the issue and we're now buying sensibly again. Personally, I think that Mel was also wrong (and I posted as much at the time) in appointing an inexperienced coach, rather than a seasoned manager. I think that this league is so competitive that it takes someone with real hands on knowledge to sustain a promotion push. However, we're still in with a shout this season, and Clement could easily have developed enough knowledge by next to make us run away with the league if we do go up. Consequently, Mel could well be right and I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 ----------Weimann----Blackman---------- Camara---Johnson--Butterfield---Ince-- Olsson-----Shackell----Pearce-----Baird-- -----------------Carson---------------------- Since the end of last season and Clement's arrival, Derby have essentially bought an entirely new team. Total cost £25m. The problem is, we haven't really sold anyone. ------------Martin-----Russell-------------- --Hendrick--Bryson---Thorne--Hughes-- --Forsyth---Keogh--Buxton---Christie-- -------------------Grant--------------------- There's such thing as healthy competition for spots, but with the exception of Buxton, Russell, Camara and possibly Baird I'd say that every player there expects to play and will be unhappy not to. I wouldn't be surprised if there is considerable unrest at the club right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymru Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 26 minutes ago, Simsy said: Mel has not been good for this club. he has been EXCEPTIONAL for this club! I have never thought so highly of someone who i have not met! Well said Simsy Mel is only trying his best to get us back to the premier league and he will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 17 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said: ----------Weimann----Blackman---------- Camara---Johnson--Butterfield---Ince-- Olsson-----Shackell----Pearce-----Baird-- -----------------Carson---------------------- Since the end of last season and Clement's arrival, Derby have essentially bought an entirely new team. Total cost £25m. The problem is, we haven't really sold anyone. ------------Martin-----Russell-------------- --Hendrick--Bryson---Thorne--Hughes-- --Forsyth---Keogh--Buxton---Christie-- -------------------Grant--------------------- There's such thing as healthy competition for spots, but with the exception of Buxton, Russell, Camara and possibly Baird I'd say that every player there expects to play and will be unhappy not to. I wouldn't be surprised if there is considerable unrest at the club right now. You forgot Bent of course. However, four of the bottom side have been unavailable due to injury for most of that time. So with the brought in twelve and the seven existing fit players, it leaves an eminently sensible eighteen man squad. It might feel bloated as players return, but we've reacted to the return to fitness of Buxton with the departure of Pearce, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 2 hours ago, curtains said: You don't know if the Rams will be a success and get promoted to the Premier League with respect its far too early to say as we have 18 games left this season and Mel is building for this season and future seasons. It's not rocket science if we don't make it this season we go again next season and then the next. The academy is already attracting top players to the club and it's being extended and made state of the art. I've made exactly the same point on Mostyn's 'Is it too soon to judge Clement' thread - yes, there's still every chance of going up this season - I haven't written the team off at all. That doesn't detract from the points I make about unease at the amount of money spent & the potential problems that has caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 He's just moved too fast imo. Let his heart rule his head. We'll survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRam Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Mel Morris has turned is into fans who engage in debates on whether or not the Head Coach should be fired, despite being fifth in the league. Im sure everyone on here remembers only a few years ago when 1 million spent on Shaun Barker was exciting to us. He's been great and hopefully our players will come good soon. I would rather we had this blip now rather than March or April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Well I'm probably considered negative as I've been clear I don't think PC is the right man for the job but I am sure as f'!k Mel Morris IS the right man for the owner ,, I'm also sure if PC turns out to be the wrong man Mel will see it and change him til he gets the right man,,, one Mel Morris' ,, there's only one ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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