Calling all tactical geniuses

[Stuniverse]

Against Middlesbrough we played three different systems: -

* 4-3-3 (more 4-1-2-3 really) to start
* 4-2-3-1 after the break
* 4-4-2 (more 4-2-4 as time was running out) when Bent came on

Plus we've also used the 4-4-2 diamond in other games.

Now my question to the tactical geniuses is this: Based purely on the opposition's system when is it best to play each of these systems? Or, put another way: Against which system should we play each of our systems?

Hope that makes sense.

[robglosta]

Good thread - I would like to see what the more knowledgable types on here make of it. 

[Uptherams]

Start with the 4-3-3 (4-1-2-3). If the opposition is sitting back and we are dominating possession then switch to the 4-2-3-1. Which at the moment would come in he form of dropping Hendrick, bringing on another wide man and slotting Ince into the middle/giving him a free role. 

At home everyone we play will likely sit back and we will dominate possession with the 4-3-3 (4-1-2-3). So perhaps just go straight for the 4-2-3-1 at home but away from home start with the 4-3-3. 

We switch to the 4-4-2 in the final 1/3 or quarter of the game when we are chasing a goal. As time depletes, alter to 4-2-4. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

We should play

                 Baird

Baird Baird Baird Baird

         Baird   Baird

Baird        Baird      Baird

             Martin

Subs: Chris Baird x 3

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

We look way to narrow with the diamond so I would gladly see them forget about it completely. It doesn't work, especially with two fullbacks with zero pace.

I would play 4-3-3 at home and go at teams, that has been when we were at our best recently. 

I would then play a 4-2-3-1 away from home.

[sage]

I generally go 4-3-3

If I've been eating nuts, there's often a surprise in store so 4-2-3-1

After a curry 5-4-3-3-2-3-1

 

[Westcumbrianram]

Scrap the diamond we don't have the players available for it. 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 for me, depends on who we are playing and their style of play.

[Bris Vegas]

You should never base a system against the opposition at Championship level, never! Should you always play to your team's strengths, your players' strengths.

In our case, 80%+ of our team is better suited to 4-3-3. I'd say around 60% 4-2-3-1, and about 25% to the diamond.

It shouldn't take a genius to work out that our players are far betted suited to 4-3-3. Especially Martin, Ince, Hendrick, Hughes, Bryson, Christie, Forsyth, and Thorne. Keogh and Shackell have more passing options with 4-3-3 too.

 

 

[Philmycock]

11 v 11, shoot and score

[rynny]

You should never base a system against the opposition at Championship level, never! Should you always play to your team's strengths, your players' strengths.

In our case, 80%+ of our team is better suited to 4-3-3. I'd say around 60% 4-2-3-1, and about 25% to the diamond.

It shouldn't take a genius to work out that our players are far betted suited to 4-3-3. Especially Martin, Ince, Hendrick, Hughes, Bryson, Christie, Forsyth, and Thorne. Keogh and Shackell have more passing options with 4-3-3 too.

 

 

I agree with this to a point, there will be times where 4-3-3 isn't effective,  like Boro last season. We will need another option.

[Bris Vegas]

I agree with this to a point, there will be times where 4-3-3 isn't effective,  like Boro last season. We will need another option.

Or we just need to improve the 4-3-3? Thing is, against any defensive-minded team who is tactically astute, conceding the first goal will always pose a massive problem as the opposition can just sit behind the ball.

I don't think there is any need to change our system for Boro away. We just need to pass the ball quicker, take more risks, get more men in the box etc.

Barcelona have renownedly struggled against Chelsea in the past. But how much of that is because Chelsea have scored the first goal and just sat back - or when 0-0 has been the plan all along?

As we're a top Championship team gunning for promotion, I think we'd be utterly foolish to change things about.

Boro play an attacking 4-2-3-1 and lined up with pretty much the same team and system which demolished Bolton last weekend. The only difference they made was mentality, the system stayed the same.

We could go 4-3-3 away from home and play more cautious. We did at times last season and still won.

[WorksopRam]

Or we just need to improve the 4-3-3? Thing is, against any defensive-minded team who is tactically astute, conceding the first goal will always pose a massive problem as the opposition can just sit behind the ball.

I don't think there is any need to change our system for Boro away. We just need to pass the ball quicker, take more risks, get more men in the box etc.

Barcelona have renownedly struggled against Chelsea in the past. But how much of that is because Chelsea have scored the first goal and just sat back - or when 0-0 has been the plan all along?

As we're a top Championship team gunning for promotion, I think we'd be utterly foolish to change things about.

Boro play an attacking 4-2-3-1 and lined up with pretty much the same team and system which demolished Bolton last weekend. The only difference they made was mentality, the system stayed the same.

We could go 4-3-3 away from home and play more cautious. We did at times last season and still won.

I blame the recruitment department tbh mate. No left winger!? What a joke. 

Thoughts? 

[B4ev6is]

I personal would not mind having jonney russle be allowed to be one of centre fowards and hit and go with chris martin some times.

 

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

4-3-3

When this doesnt work go 5-3-2 with full backs pressed up creating an overlap with midfielders

 

[Bris Vegas]

I blame the recruitment department tbh mate. No left winger!? What a joke. 

Thoughts? 

No left winger, no alternative for Martin, questionable forward signings.

I wouldn't have minded if we finished 8th from bottom last season and Paul Clement has come in with a long-term plan to mould his own team with the diamond, play attacking football and eventually win promotion.

But we're almost there. And instead of applying the finishes touches to a squad/system which is good enough to go up, our 'professional' recruitment team decided to go for a different direction altogether. 

[WorksopRam]

No left winger, no alternative for Martin, questionable forward signings.

I wouldn't have minded if we finished 8th from bottom last season and Paul Clement has come in with a long-term plan to mould his own team with the diamond, play attacking football and eventually win promotion.

But we're almost there. And instead of applying the finishes touches to a squad/system which is good enough to go up, our 'professional' recruitment team decided to go for a different direction altogether. 

What if we use various systems throughout the season and we're top two by Christmas?

[Bris Vegas]

What if we use various systems throughout the season and we're top two by Christmas?

It's not going to happen. The only way we'll finish top six this season is with Thorne and Martin regularly fit and a 4-3-3 formation. If not, then forget it.

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

We have upgraded the squad nothing more.

Shackell for Barker

Weiman for Ward

Baird for Eustace.

Bent forSammon

Carson for Roos

Ince and Pearce being the only real additions

We arebuilt for 4-3-3 so will have to stick with that or a subtle variant.
Yes lose cm we are in ***** but we d haveoptions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WorksopRam]

It's not going to happen. The only way we'll finish top six this season is with Thorne and Martin regularly fit and a 4-3-3 formation. If not, then forget it.

Maybe we will mainly play this way. But why is Clement wanting to try new systems then? Is he wrong? 

[Ambitious]

It completely depends on where your opposition's strengths and weaknesses are, for me. I don't like the diamond, I just think you have to be up against a tactically inept manager to make it work. I guess the idea is to stretch the oppositions midfield and make it narrower, but they usually just go man for man and make it much harder work than it needs to be. I also find the two middle central midfielders tend to end up playing as wide midfielders more often than not. 

4-3-3 works well. I do think you have to have the right players in order for it to work, though. Thorne and Martin are invaluable in that set-up. I don't think we could play it anywhere near as well without them.

I like 4-2-3-1 - I think it's possibly my favourite formation. It looks to distribute the work rate out evenly and allows voids in the park to be filled in and covered as and when. The problem lies in the middle three, as they are instrumental to it all fitting together.

As I said at the start, though, if you're going to have a mix of formations then you really need to have a look at the opposition. If you're going to keep the same formation then you look at your own side. 

I've got quite a specific idea of how a team should set-up and play: One of my main requirements would be the central midfield players having an engine to rival a sports car. I also don't like the idea of the weight being on certain positions, i.e. 4-3-3 the defensive mid and central striker. 

Everyone has their own opinions and methods.