Change of formation

[sage]

There seems to be a fairly even split between people on the forum between those who think we should stick with last season's formation or change to a new one.

For me last season's problem was the key injuries and inadequate attempts to replace them (or ironically change formation if we didn't).

If we had those key players fit again at the start of this season why did we change formation?

Was it to have a plan B?

Find a better system?

Change the system to suit incoming players?

or

Simply Clement looking to impose his own system as a break from the past. 

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

There seems to be a fairly even split between people on the forum between those who think we should stick with last season's formation or change to a new one.

For me last season's problem was the key injuries and inadequate attempts to replace them (or ironically change formation if we didn't).

If we had those key players fit again at the start of this season why did we change formation?

Was it to have a plan B?

Find a better system?

Change the system to suit incoming players?

or

Simply Clement looking to impose his own system as a break from the past. 

 

 

Of those 4 i think it's something like 20%, 25%, 20%, 35% 

[sage]

Of those 4 i think it's something like 20%, 25%, 20%, 35% 

I suppose the second part of this question is...

Should we have changed formation?

[Bris Vegas]

In the summer we should have sat down, looked at last season and decide why we didn't get promoted last season. Why did the performances drop off? Why did we concede so many goals towards the end?

IMO they've come to the conclusion that we didn't have a plan B. Why did we need a plan B when plan A worked so well. We were top of the league, ableit not playing that great, with plan A.

By plans I'm referring to systems, not style of football! It was so logical what we needed in the summer. A new winger (Ince), cover at DM (Baird and maybe one more) and backup/competition to Chris Martin (we got nobody).

Instead, they obviously decided that the next best course of action was to provide a new system. A diamond, a formation which probbaly gets the best out of Bent and Weimann - But to what cost? Causing Martin, Ince, Hendrick and Forsyth to play worse?

I'm going all out here. Not bringing in an alternative for Martin and sticking with the diamond will be our biggest mistake. Unless Clement goes back to 4-3-3 now, he'll never get the best out of over 50% of our team.

Our summer signings still leave short of a genuine left winger. Russell and Weimann can play there, but is that position their best role? I'm doubtful.

I want to know who did our recruiting this summer? Did they actually review last season's shortcomings? I'd love to be wrong but I think they've made an incredibly amateurish call in the summer.

[Bris Vegas]

When you've got something good but is falling just a little short, improve it! Don't change it completely!

[sage]

When you've got something good but is falling just a little short, improve it! Don't change it completely!

That's what i told the missus

[Wsm-ram]

When you've got something good but is falling just a little short, improve it! Don't change it completely!

exactly,and now the defence is looking stronger would it not make sense to go with something that the players know and understand and were pretty comfortable with ?..

[ollycutts1982]

A problem I have seen from the first to games, albeit last night I watched it on sky, the full backs seem to b me struggling due to being isolated. Fozzy got forward last night but some of his distribution was poor. I still think it is evident the players are struggling with the shape. I agree with the why change it argument but can also see why PC would want his own style.

 

[Mostyn6]

I'm not sure the formation matters if the play has no tempo and the players no urgency.

Clement needs to learn rapidly, if the players aren't moving fast then the ball should be. There's no other way to succeed.

[Ashz09]

I want him to have his own style and a plan B. The problem is that we still struggle vs sides who pressed us happened a lot last season and happening now. Two teams have got results against us with this pressing system.

 

They do get tired late second half but we struggle till then. Wigan put the blueprints out last season and teams are starting to follow it. Once we get harrased we need Hughes on the pitch to want to recieve the ball and make things happen or we struggle a lot.

 

I thought Thorne kinda did a Hughes wanting the ball making things happen but most likely due to them being tired.

[Van der MoodHoover]

I want him to have his own style and a plan B. The problem is that we still struggle vs sides who pressed us happened a lot last season and happening now. Two teams have got results against us with this pressing system.

 

They do get tired late second half but we struggle till then. Wigan put the blueprints out last season and teams are starting to follow it. Once we get harrased we need Hughes on the pitch to want to recieve the ball and make things happen or we struggle a lot.

 

I thought Thorne kinda did a Hughes wanting the ball making things happen but most likely due to them being tired.

good point. At one point early in second half the ball got passed low to hendrick about 30 yards out with his back to goal And 3 pompey players in close proximity. But it was right to feet. 

Cryingout for a one touch pass to a third runner.

Instead Jeff trapped it then took a touch, turned back, took another touch,  got challenged and fell over. 

The ref gave us a soft free kick which came to nowt.

Summed it up for me.

[Ashz09]

True maybe 4-2-3-1 doesn't work due to lack of support up front which leads to backwards passing by that ime they got men behind the ball. The commentators were making valid points about the system which picked up on a few things and I thought it would work a treat! I know Russell scored one or two free kicks in pre season but struggling to see why Ince is not taking them. Maybe we need

 

Least we scored from a corner that's rare as anything!

[Alph]

I still don't believe in that plan A-Z stuff.

I can't think of any successful team that chops and changes to suit the weather. 

You find a system that fits. You play it. You pick the bones out of it. You work it and work it. You buy players that fit it but are better than the players you have. You work it some more. 

You work it until every single person plays on instinct. Until every person knows exactly what everybody else should be doing. 

You will always lose games. You can't be at 100% every week. It's not because the plan doesn't work. It's because the plan wasn't done at 100% 

Everybody in the world gets better at their job with experience. You learn little tricks of the trade. Shortcuts. Unique ways of doing things. You don't want a new role every week. 

It'd be great if you could be that adaptable. But that takes time. Time that you don't get in football. What's the average time spent at a club for a player or manager? 

[duncanjwitham]

I still don't believe in that plan A-Z stuff.

And for all the talk about 'plans', while the 2 formations and teams we've used in the 2 games so far have been different, the style/execution has been exactly the same.  A flat back 4, 2 or 3 midfielders sat very deeply in front of them, a massive gap, and then 3 or 4 forwards standing on top of each other up front.  Clement has made no attempt to vary that in game either, with subs or tactical changes.  

[ramsbottom]

I didn't go to Bolton and was out for my Mum's birthday last night so didn't get to watch the game but all I've read, heard and seen from the highlights is no intensity and tempo.  When Schteve first came in that was the hallmark of our play, then last season he got obsessed with possession and slowed everything down and PC seems to be doing the same.  I'd rather we go back to flying out the traps, going balls out to get a good lead, then sitting back and keeping the ball from 70 mins onward.  The two matches so far we seem to the doing it the other way round and not waking up til it's too late.

I know the above doesn't have a great deal to do with formations but 4-3-3 did allow us to move the ball quicker so I'd go back to it and hope that an on form Thorne and Shackell/Baird's calmness can make us less susceptible to counters.  

[Srg]

Changes for changes sake thus far.

2 games, 2 tactically wrong games.

With that said, still doesn't excuse being so poor on the ball. As has been mentioned, the movement and intensity is appalling.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

In both games the one constant has been a slow tempo. I was there last night and it was painful. Imo the players are not comfortable with what they are being asked to do. I wish someone would specifically ask Paul Clement why we seem to be playing slowly and using the long ball. I mean .....just why?.................I don't get it!!

[Bris Vegas]

Thing is. 4-2-3-1 only works if your two central midfielders are comfortable enough on the ball. They have to make themsevles available, find space, play urgently and distribute the ball to the attacking four.

Dawkins yesterday played as the number 10 and was starved of the ball because Hendrick and Baird were so poor in that department. It was all long ball from the defence.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

Thing is. 4-2-3-1 only works if your two central midfielders are comfortable enough on the ball. They have to make themsevles available, find space, play urgently and distribute the ball to the attacking four.

Dawkins yesterday played as the number 10 and was starved of the ball because Hendrick and Baird were so poor in that department. It was all long ball from the defence.

 

I was trying to recall who we deployed there when we used this system in 2010-2011, with some success

The 2 seemed to be Savage and James Bailey. Surely we have moved on???

Agree that if we are to deploy this season then FFS not with Baird and Hendrick - the latter is NOT comfortable on the ball, he is a runner/box-to-box type.

[Bris Vegas]

My article on why we whould play 4-3-3 and why! Before anyone moans, I tried copying and pasting over but the graph doesn't appear when doing so!

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/08/13/graphic-why-paul-clement-should-select-this-derby-county-xi-agai/