Mostyn6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 See it's that kind of post that makes ME look confrontational and argumentative, just because I respond.What was Derby's win rate in the two season before he rescued them?If you've been watching for 50 years, you'll remember that quite well?The manager before Clough had a nervous breakdown and left the club a broken man. He'd won 7 out of 26 games with a squad that cost you best part of 30m quid to assemble and pay.The manager before him didn't win a game for a season and turned the club into the laughing stock of the country football wise.Yet here you are saying Clement needs time, all he's got to do is turn around a squad who narrowly missed out on promotion, then a squad that narrowly missed out on the play offs, and they've spent 21m hard cash to help him do it.The fact that you say NC was one of the worst managers for 50 years shows where you're coming from.This is the clubs history for the bad times of those 50 years you've been watching.66/67 – finished 17th in Div 267/68 – 18thThen you landed on your feet for a while hiring Brian Clough who brought with him Peter Taylor and Dave Mackay.Then it went belly up.78/79 – 19th79/80 – 20th and relegated 83/84 – 20th and relegated to division 3.90/91 – 20th and relegated. 91/96 - a very good spell.2000/01 – 17th01/02 – 20th and relegated03/04 – 20th in The Championship05/06 – 20th in the Championship07/08 - 20th in the Premier League and relegated winning just one game08/09 – sitting in 18th having won 7 games out of 25!!!You've had 18 managers who've managed for more than 15 games in that time.These include Colin Murphy, Tommy Docherty, Colin Addison, John Newman, Peter Taylor (sorry Pete), Colin Todd, John Gregory, Phil Brown and Paul Jewell all of whom have a lower win % than Nigel Clough, I'd have to throw Billy Davies into the mix as well cos of his last season where he single handedly destroyed the club and left a mess that took 5 years to clear up.Still, you carry on telling me I'm deluded and am showing blind faith to Nigel, one of the worst managers YOU'VE seen in your 50 years watching the Rams.And then he repeated it all at Sheffield United where his win rate was 47% and I'm the biased one? I also have to pull you up on Billy Davies, I don't buy the accusation his mess took five years to clear up. Of the Davies signings, many had contracts extended by Clough, and were major parts of his teams. Clough kept more Davies players than Jewell players, and considering Jewell signed 22 in 12 months, that some going. Davies is tarnished by poor premier league signings, but aside of Claude, the rest were relatively short term deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 and if someone starts slagging off someone I've loved for 30 years? what would you like me to do?I'm not slagging off your CLUB, I never have and i never will. I've certainly never criricised every aspect of your club, I spent a long time defending it while you weren't so proud of what was going on. I'm slagging off (if you must call it that) individuals at YOUR club, I think even you've done that from time to time. I certainly remember quite a bit of slagging before McClaren came in.No matter if your points are sometimes correct or not, you'll always be wrong to slag Derby County off. Just cos you're a fan of 45 years doesn't change the fact you slagged them off a lot when I didn't and wouldn't.I'd wager you've had periods in your clubs history where you haven't always liked the people running the club, managers or dodgy owners.I'm at that stage now, that's all, there's no difference. There will be times in the future where I'm 100% happy with everything that's going on and I'll be positively glowing in my praise.That's natural isn't it?I've fell out with the mrs a few times in our thirty years together, had periods where we've hated each other for a while, I've probably moaned about her to my mates down the pub, but if anyone had a go at her I'd defend her to the hilt.i understand that he's your mate and you're defending him, which is what I was referring to when I said honourable intentions, but at the end of the day were both on different sides of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That's natural isn't it?I've fell out with the mrs a few times in our thirty years together, had periods where we've hated each other for a while, I've probably moaned about her to my mates down the pub, but if anyone had a go at her I'd defend her to the hilt.i understand that he's your mate and you're defending him, which is what I was referring to when I said honourable intentions, but at the end of the day were both on different sides of the fence.very well put.I don't think our fences are THAT far apart though and I think I like your missus more than you realise :-)Just her mother in law with the goatee beard really does my head in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I also have to pull you up on Billy Davies, I don't buy the accusation his mess took five years to clear up. Of the Davies signings, many had contracts extended by Clough, and were major parts of his teams. Clough kept more Davies players than Jewell players, and considering Jewell signed 22 in 12 months, that some going. Davies is tarnished by poor premier league signings, but aside of Claude, the rest were relatively short term deals.We've had the "Clough kept them so they were decent signings" argument before. On a limited budget you cant replace all players you want to. Clough prioritized the funds ge had and replaced when he could, and was forced to extend contracts of other players to avoid ys having a squad that wasn't capable of championship survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Jewell made far far worse signings than the poison dwarf.Although Claud and Earnshaw weren't good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We've had the "Clough kept them so they were decent signings" argument before. On a limited budget you cant replace all players you want to. Clough prioritized the funds ge had and replaced when he could, and was forced to extend contracts of other players to avoid ys having a squad that wasn't capable of championship survival.fair enough, but it defies logic that Manager A buys several players, achieves promotion, then Manager B struggles with the same players to replicate achievement therefore it's Manager A's fault for lumbering the club with those players, even though they achieved what they were supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I also have to pull you up on Billy Davies, I don't buy the accusation his mess took five years to clear up. Of the Davies signings, many had contracts extended by Clough, and were major parts of his teams. Clough kept more Davies players than Jewell players, and considering Jewell signed 22 in 12 months, that some going. Davies is tarnished by poor premier league signings, but aside of Claude, the rest were relatively short term deals.Again Most, I won't over defend that point cos I didn't go through both signings and pay attention to them the same way I started doing in 2009, I was more of a casual observer before then, kind of a secret admirer.I think Billy poisoned the place, but I might be wrong and I know he's still held in some affection cos of hte fact he got you up.If you're telling me Billy's legacy was solid enough, I'll trust you.Personally though, I hate everything he stood for. I hope you'll let me have that at least!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Again Most, I won't over defend that point cos I didn't go through both signings and pay attention to them the same way I started doing in 2009, I was more of a casual observer before then, kind of a secret admirer.I think Billy poisoned the place, but I might be wrong and I know he's still held in some affection cos of hte fact he got you up.If you're telling me Billy's legacy was solid enough, I'll trust you.Personally though, I hate everything he stood for. I hope you'll let me have that at least!? I think Billy was fine until Pearson arrived. After that, his attitude towards the club, in my opinion, was despicable. He will always be hated for that. Rightly so. But I still think in terms of actual damage he did, it wasn't as much as people say. Jewell did lots more, albeit in good faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 When thinking of Nigel's first couple of seasons, folks tend to forget just how much money Jewell had been backed with. He was hopeless. But he tried. Really, he did.Thing that strikes me is we have really moved on from what Nigel built in terms of the character, team spirit, group loyalty etc which came through in Mac's first season. We had a decent team, McClaren freed it to plat cavalier football and rode the good times. That ride was clearly at an end by the end of last season. We have to build something new. The owners want to buy that in double quick time. It's a tough gig, but it's going to need more than having able players in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 very well put.I don't think our fences are THAT far apart though and I think I like your missus more than you realise :-)Just her mother in law with the goatee beard really does my head in. How do you know about the goatee?thats freaked me out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Again Most, I won't over defend that point cos I didn't go through both signings and pay attention to them the same way I started doing in 2009, I was more of a casual observer before then, kind of a secret admirer.I think Billy poisoned the place, but I might be wrong and I know he's still held in some affection cos of hte fact he got you up.If you're telling me Billy's legacy was solid enough, I'll trust you.Personally though, I hate everything he stood for. I hope you'll let me have that at least!? At least we do agree on Billy Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Spalding Ram Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Is Clement up to the job...............only time will tell, but I know what I want to see.I want to see a high tempo, high pressing mentality, I want to see us dominate matches for more than ten minutes, I want to see midfield players bursting past Martin into the oppositions penalty area, I want to see wide players supported by bombing on full backs, I want to see possession lead to chances, I want to see players given an opportunity to show a bit of individual flair, I want to see the latest investment transferred into improved performances, I want to see our manager have a smile on his face at a post match press conference, I want to see us rise up this table, I want to see a little bit of luck going our way and most of all, I want to see if I can get a pair of them rose tinted glasses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETRA Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I don't like to say it even this early in the season, but I think the next four games could well decide PC future at the Club. With the two expensive signings this week expectations especially in the boardroom must be huge.I really wish we didn't have another two of the next four games Live on Sky, ok the revenue is welcome but from a player confidence prospective I think it's working against us. I would prefer to see us winning games & getting our confidence back well away from full scrutiny. Can anybody tell me when we last won a Live Sky game ?. As its so long ago I can't even remember which is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Was it the 2-0 win over Leeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETRA Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Was it the 2-0 win over Leeds?Yes you could well be right, but I wonder how many we've failed to win on Sky since then ?. Too bloody many that's for sure. No get us off the telly for a while I say, it just encourages the opposition to perform better on a bigger stage I think ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Is Clement up to the job...............only time will tell, but I know what I want to see.I want to see a high tempo, high pressing mentality, I want to see us dominate matches for more than ten minutes, I want to see midfield players bursting past Martin into the oppositions penalty area, I want to see wide players supported by bombing on full backs, I want to see possession lead to chances, I want to see players given an opportunity to show a bit of individual flair, I want to see the latest investment transferred into improved performances, I want to see our manager have a smile on his face at a post match press conference, I want to see us rise up this table, I want to see a little bit of luck going our way and most of all, I want to see if I can get a pair of them rose tinted glasses! relax no need to shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 PAUL CLEMENT BARMY ARMY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Yes you could well be right, but I wonder how many we've failed to win on Sky since then ?. Too bloody many that's for sure. No get us off the telly for a while I say, it just encourages the opposition to perform better on a bigger stage I think ?.Don't go there....All change for Preston, we have to more forceful in attack and we need a massive performance lift - what with spending millions again this week - A win at Preston and a very good team performance is a must! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 relax no need to shout. isn't shouting Upper Case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 isn't shouting Upper Case?Oh I see the Hypocricy But seriously I can't understand how some people can make a negative out of a positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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