Sam Rush ambition of the club

[Ambitious]

nonsense! His QPR side played some amazing football!

 

We're not QPR though, when he got them promoted he did it on a 30million pound wage budget - they also had players brought in on big figures, and big wages, they had a set of very good players - all built round pace, power and athleticism which we simply don't have here 

 

but we are very much in the same position as Leeds - what he had at leeds, he would have here - signing players like Habib Habibou, El Hadj and Andy Gray!! I can do without that!! 

 

Poor quality football, grinding 1-0 wins - and very, very negative mindset.

 

It's not worth arguing because it simply will not happen - but, I wouldn't return to pride park while he was manager! absolutely no chance. 

 

Imagine Will Hughes in a neil warnock side? It'd be horrible to watch.

[BOB BIGGS]

I don't like him, I don't like his tactics, don't like his transfer dealings and really don't want him at the club.

Compared to my feelings about him, you're being very kind!!

[Asanovic]

If the right player for the right money in the right position isn't available, I'd rather we didn't spend Brayford's sale money just to say we'd done it. I'd be much angrier if we spunked money on someone who turned out to be no good for us.

 

There are players who look good in other teams and their wages and fees probably stack up, but there's a reason we haven't gone for them, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not the manager and I won't have done nearly as much research on any of the players mentioned on the transfer talk pages so I can't really sit here criticising.

 

Attitude, the way that person would play in our team, personal circumstances, injury record - lots of things to take in to account that the average fan won't know about.

 

I'm not saying Clough is immune from supporter ire if we're not performing well and if his signings are dross I say so, but I won't criticise him for not bringing in a CB just because it's what people want. It has to be the right person.

 

For what it's worth Gjokaj has looked good in the games I've seen. If he's able to deputise (which no one apart from the management really know - I expect they think he can, though), then I'm glad we kept us money in us pocket.

[RodleyRam]

Mostyn, i think a reasonable amount of time you have some decent and interesting posts, different and challenging.

However, when you criticise Clough for negative tactics and propose Warnock as the saviour i feel that you dont do yourself any favours!

I'd propose that under the circumstances Clough has faced, Warnock would not have lasted half as long and the club would be in a similar state of disrepair as when Jewell departed. I highly doubt he would have had any more success on the pitch than Clough. But that's pure speculation based on his tenures at other clubs, i'd put him in the Billy Davies group of managers but not even quite as good.

Whilst no-one would claim Clough was a tactical genius, i personally feel much happier as a fan with the club as a whole under his management. You, yourself have listed the multitude of things he's got right over the last 5 years and to my mind, and loads of others, things continue to improve on and off the field. So it seems to me you contradict yourself pretty substantially when in the space of half an hour you list numerous things you give clough credit for, most of which have developed over time, suggest you made your mind up he wasn't up to the job after 15 games and then propose Warnock would have done a better job in the same circustances!

You're good at arguing, i'll give you that. And when i say good i mean relentless and unable to consider that you might not be right all of the time!

[PrivateDerby]

Dambusters march please.

[Dimmu]

That Smith deal seems pricey. 6 figures for him and we pay all his wages? How much would he be to buy?!?

It's pricey to calm fans down after selling fans favourite and propably best player...

[Mostyn6]

Mostyn, i think a reasonable amount of time you have some decent and interesting posts, different and challenging.

However, when you criticise Clough for negative tactics and propose Warnock as the saviour i feel that you dont do yourself any favours!

I'd propose that under the circumstances Clough has faced, Warnock would not have lasted half as long and the club would be in a similar state of disrepair as when Jewell departed. I highly doubt he would have had any more success on the pitch than Clough. But that's pure speculation based on his tenures at other clubs, i'd put him in the Billy Davies group of managers but not even quite as good.

Whilst no-one would claim Clough was a tactical genius, i personally feel much happier as a fan with the club as a whole under his management. You, yourself have listed the multitude of things he's got right over the last 5 years and to my mind, and loads of others, things continue to improve on and off the field. So it seems to me you contradict yourself pretty substantially when in the space of half an hour you list numerous things you give clough credit for, most of which have developed over time, suggest you made your mind up he wasn't up to the job after 15 games and then propose Warnock would have done a better job in the same circustances!

You're good at arguing, i'll give you that. And when i say good i mean relentless and unable to consider that you might not be right all of the time!

 

 

the reason I mention Warnock is simply statistics. He knows what it takes to get out of this league. I don't like the man, but he gets bad press about his game. Forget Leeds, I think his heart was never in that job. But when you look at Palace, QPR, Sheff Weds and Notts County, he achieved it playing attacking, even if industrious and agricultural football. I also have no doubt QPR would've done better keeping him over Mark Hughes. Certain managers are suited to certain clubs, and certain managers are suited to certain leagues. Yes, you're right in pigeon holing him in with Billy. But they're the elite at this level. I would only recommend him to get us out of this league.

[Gritstone Ram]

the reason I mention Warnock is simply statistics. He knows what it takes to get out of this league. I don't like the man, but he gets bad press about his game. Forget Leeds, I think his heart was never in that job. But when you look at Palace, QPR, Sheff Weds and Notts County, he achieved it playing attacking, even if industrious and agricultural football. I also have no doubt QPR would've done better keeping him over Mark Hughes. Certain managers are suited to certain clubs, and certain managers are suited to certain leagues. Yes, you're right in pigeon holing him in with Billy. But they're the elite at this level. I would only recommend him to get us out of this league.

I thought Warnock was at Sheff Utd not Wendy.

[Dimmu]

Some Spurs fans think he should be in their first team!

 

What's in it for us? I guess the main thing is that if he gets injured, we send him back and get someone else in. I was surprised though. I could understand a loanee at CB while we wait for Barker & O'Brien but Freeman is either first choice or he isn't. If he's the long term Brayford replacement then he needs to be playing to get experience. If Smith keeps his place all season then Freeman won't have come on any

IMO we have ideal amount of fullbacks. 1 RB, 1 LB and 1 who can play both. Keeps squad smaller than having two to each place, but there's still competition.

[Mostyn6]

I thought Warnock was at Sheff Utd not Wendy.

 

sorry, I was distracted whilst on t'phone. I'm used to typing Sheff Weds... lol

[WilkoRam]

Wow I'm not Nigel's biggest fan but Warnock? You have to be kidding. Is this some joke that's passed me by? Warnock? Neil Warnock?

I've not liked one team he's managed and as for personality.....well let's leave it there. If he came to Derby then my kids are growing up Spurs fans.

[WilkoRam]

Can we get this guy for pre game?

http://bbcsporf.lockerdome.com/articles/109567956

[Mostyn6]

hypocrisy.

 

I bet half of you were anti Robbie Savage but loved him when he was here.

[WilkoRam]

hypocrisy.

I bet half of you were anti Robbie Savage but loved him when he was here.

Nope. Didn't like him pre-derby or when he was here. Headless and chicken come to mind.

[ramblur]

 

 

For what it's worth Gjokaj has looked good in the games I've seen. If he's able to deputise (which no one apart from the management really know - I expect they think he can, though), then I'm glad we kept us money in us pocket.

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is the fact that our ability to attract decent talent to the Academy/Development squad isn't just based on the excellence of our facilities and coaching staff,but also on the willingness of the manager to give youth a chance.If we were to go out and get a CB,then either he or one of the present incumbents would be first in line to come in to cover for injury,so where would this leave the likes of Gjokaj? When could he get a chance-after 2 injuries? Some may point out that he doesn't even feature on the bench for some games,but this could well be because Clough may feel that the likes of Eustace may be able to cover during the game in which an injury might occur,and that Gjokaj would be better served getting a full 90 elsewhere.He might then be drafted in for the game following an injury,and if it didn't work out it might then be time to look for a loan.

 

If we want a strong Academy,then this may be the price (if it is a price) to pay.Short term fix v long term health.We'll never find out how good some of these youngsters are until they've been thrown into action.We've not done badly out of it in recent years,and there's no doubt in my mind that BC wouldn't have hesitated in throwing Gjokaj into the game against the gumps if a CB had been injured in the run up.

[weedram]

  pigeon holing him in with Billy. But they're the elite at this level.

 

Billy fluked promotion once, was embarressed for half a season at the next level & has since spent many millions not getting promotion.

 

As for Warnock - look where those clubs are now Palace, QPR, Sheff Weds and Notts County - (Palace have only gone up after years of being rebuilt by other managers.)

 

Is there a prize for writing utter b******s ?

[Mostyn6]

Billy fluked promotion once, was embarressed for half a season at the next level & has since spent many millions not getting promotion.

 

As for Warnock - look where those clubs are now Palace, QPR, Sheff Weds and Notts County - (Palace have only gone up after years of being rebuilt by other managers.)

 

Is there a prize for writing utter b******s ?

 

Yes, if there was, we'd be agreeing with you and saying that within 10 years of Brian Clough and Dave Mackay leaving Derby, they were in the 3rd division!

 

Is that your point? 

 

<Bananas>

[bourneyesterday]

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is the fact that our ability to attract decent talent to the Academy/Development squad isn't just based on the excellence of our facilities and coaching staff,but also on the willingness of the manager to give youth a chance.If we were to go out and get a CB,then either he or one of the present incumbents would be first in line to come in to cover for injury,so where would this leave the likes of Gjokaj? When could he get a chance-after 2 injuries? Some may point out that he doesn't even feature on the bench for some games,but this could well be because Clough may feel that the likes of Eustace may be able to cover during the game in which an injury might occur,and that Gjokaj would be better served getting a full 90 elsewhere.He might then be drafted in for the game following an injury,and if it didn't work out it might then be time to look for a loan.

 

If we want a strong Academy,then this may be the price (if it is a price) to pay.Short term fix v long term health.We'll never find out how good some of these youngsters are until they've been thrown into action.We've not done badly out of it in recent years,and there's no doubt in my mind that BC wouldn't have hesitated in throwing Gjokaj into the game against the gumps if a CB had been injured in the run up.

Ramblur you are one of the posters whose opinion i respect on this forum but i think you are overplaying the significance of the academy. Compare it to say southampton or peterborough to name just two successful developers.

Apart from Tom Huddleston who exactly have we produced that have set the world on fire? I agree Will Hughes looks a decent prospect but untill he has done it consistantly for a few seasons with us, or more likely a low level prem team ,then its just potential.

The club would like us to believe that we have a conveyor belt of talent just waiting to be unleashed on to the footie world but its just not as easy as that.

How often have any of the top 6 english clubs produced 5 or 6 top players from their youth team at the same time? I can only think of one,

i'm afraid its just another " jam tomorrow" ploy to keep suckers buying tickets for a club that is dying on its arse, just look at the crowd yesterday and imagine what it would look like with another 3,000 supporters having given up the ghost because of the owners apathy and the manager's incompetence.

[ramblur]

Ramblur you are one of the posters whose opinion i respect on this forum but i think you are overplaying the significance of the academy. Compare it to say southampton or peterborough to name just two successful developers.

Apart from Tom Huddleston who exactly have we produced that have set the world on fire? I agree Will Hughes looks a decent prospect but untill he has done it consistantly for a few seasons with us, or more likely a low level prem team ,then its just potential.

The club would like us to believe that we have a conveyor belt of talent just waiting to be unleashed on to the footie world but its just not as easy as that.

How often have any of the top 6 english clubs produced 5 or 6 top players from their youth team at the same time? I can only think of one,

i'm afraid its just another " jam tomorrow" ploy to keep suckers buying tickets for a club that is dying on its arse, just look at the crowd yesterday and imagine what it would look like with another 3,000 supporters having given up the ghost because of the owners apathy and the manager's incompetence.

My main point was that if you block off opportunities for youngsters,then one of our recruitment planks disappears.If fans want a CB (for instance) now,in the search for promotion,then what happens if we gain promotion?We start looking for players to keep us up and again block out youngsters.If we then go up a level and start aiming for Europe,the same thing happens.This,in my opinion,is exactly why our national side struggles-everywhere clubs are scared to introduce youngsters because of various pressures that cry out for results.Naturally,I'm not suggesting that we introduce them just for the sake of it-they have to be considered good enough,hopefully for the level we're at and even more hopefully for a higher level.I don't think anyone expects 5 top players to be produced at the same time ,as you may have to go back to the 'Busby Babes' for that.I think our recent production has been above average,and I think you're being a bit dismissive of Hendrick,who I feel could certainly play at the next level.

 

Going back to your point about top clubs not producing 5 top players,how difficult is it for youngsters to break into these teams,crammed with internationals? I don't think youngsters are being allowed to develop naturally and have to be truly outstanding from the off to get a look in.Some take time to develop into great players-Kevin Keegan springs to mind.He himself said he didn't think he was up to much as a player at Ssausagehorpe,but determined to make himself into one by sheer hard work.

 

I've 2 opinions on the CB issue.If Clough is under pressure for a top 6 finish this year,then I think a decent CB should have been bought.If,however,the longer term picture holds sway,then I think the likes of Gjokaj should be first given a chance before dipping into the market.The more youth graduates we get into the team,(in theory) the more cash should be available for the odd purchase of a better quality player to supplement.

 

Don't think for one moment I've suddenly changed from being a board sceptic into a board lover.The Will Hughes situation is likely to develop into an acid test for me.I notice on another forum various posters are claiming the loan capital is interest free (which I've always taken as 0% interest).The last accounts show that c£1m of interest on these loans had already accrued,and I fully expect (with the introduction of yet more loan capital) that this figure will be closer to £2m in the next set of accounts.Whilst no interest has yet been paid,we don't know if this is a matter of policy or simply down to the fact of there being no available cash (to date,the investors would have had to loan more money,or borrow externally,to pay the interest-both a bit silly).I think a big Hughes windfall may well put the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

Just had a quick look at Gellaw,and accrued interest is as follows:- 9/10 £152k, 10/11 £294k, 11/12 £626k,with a total accrual debtor of £1.073m (the £1k diff down to rounding).

 

For those who only look at DCFC accounts and remain sceptical-just look at the interest payable figures at the end of the P/L account for the last 3 years and see how the interest has steadily risen.

[davenportram]

Under FFP doesn't it have to be capital investment to be offset against loans - so it can't be in the way of loans after this season(or am I mistaken) will be interesting if they can find the funds for that.

And the grounds mortgage is due for repayment in 2015 - hope they can get a good deal on remortgaging.