BOB BIGGS Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Simple question. After 4 years of him in charge, I am now firmly of the opinion that Nigel is not the man for the job. I have zero excitement going to games to watch the same negative dross, and lack of ambition. Despite many people around me at PP being of a similar opinion, that stance is seen as ridiculous by many on this forum. I've only been back on the forums a few days and I've already been called a WUM and a Forest fan, because I think Clough should be replaced for the club to move forward. The fact is, it's the club I love. Not the staff and players. They come and go. And short of signing Lee Hughes or Marlon King, I couldn't give a **** who's here, if we're moving back where we should be. So I ask you, what will need to happen for you to say enough is enough? It seems to me that in many of your eyes, he's bullet proof. Will he need to be named in the Savile enquiry or will he actually, finally, be judged on his ability, or lack of? Simple answer to your question As far as I'm concerned, whenever you like. Complex answer to your question Given all the circumstances of the last few years, the present budget difficulties, the unknown issue of whether more young players will come through to first team level, the difficulty of finding an obvious replacement who would do any better under the same circumstances, the likely departure of some of our best players just when we need to keep them, I'd say it's impossible to put a date on it. Just keep hoping he'll go while I keep hoping the team continues to improve, albeit very slowly, I wouldn't have wanted his job when he took it and I wouldn't want it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Question, what would be gained by getting rid of him now. Can you name one available manager who has a proven track record of working on minimal funding and wage budget who would do any better? What would they do any differently? Why would they benefit the club long term? There's no reason to go for the boom and bust route while we're clearing moving forward both on and off the field. Patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. Sometimes we need to stop acting like children and actually have the faith to allow Nigel to do his job. I'll give you one, Roberto Di Matteo. Another, Nigel Adkins. Another, Owen Coyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Is WUM a magic word on here? Does it get you into the crystal maze? It's a typo mate. They meant to put "BUM". The area in which most fans enjoying kissing of Cloughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Question, what would be gained by getting rid of him now. Can you name one available manager who has a proven track record of working on minimal funding and wage budget who would do any better? What would they do any differently? Why would they benefit the club long term? There's no reason to go for the boom and bust route while we're clearing moving forward both on and off the field. Patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. Sometimes we need to stop acting like children and actually have the faith to allow Nigel to do his job. Ever the voice of reason Albert 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> People keep talking about Nigel Adkins but Southampton have LOADSAMONIES if you hadn't noticed... they spent it well and quite quietly but they spent about £20 million on players in 2 seasons (pre-Prem, and before you start arguing I got those numbers from a coupla Saints fans and haven't cheked them) Other than that I'd suggest checking this list for managers that would improve us: [url=http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html]http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html The only one I MIGHT consider from our league or below is Poyet... But he's had LOADSAMONIES too and hasn't got a team very much better than ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If we was ever relegated under Clough, or couldn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, if I genuinely thought it was him not improving us, then I would want him gone. The side as it stands is pretty piss poor only has 2 players that were previously proven 'decent' at this level, in Keogh and Roberts and one of them is getting on, so Clough can take great credit in that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'll give you one, Roberto Di Matteo. Another, Nigel Adkins. Another, Owen Coyle. Di Matteo - Didn't do brilliantly at WBA and managers since have backed that up PLUS had a squad of VERY good players at Chelsea who didn't fire for him this season... Adkins - see post above, had loads of money to spend AND well... He probably is a good manager actually but not like 300% better than Nigel Coyle - Gimme a break dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Ever the voice of reason Albert 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> People keep talking about Nigel Adkins but Southampton have LOADSAMONIES if you hadn't noticed... they spent it well and quite quietly but they spent about £20 million on players in 2 seasons (pre-Prem, and before you start arguing I got those numbers from a coupla Saints fans and haven't cheked them) Other than that I'd suggest checking this list for managers that would improve us: [url=http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html]http://www.leagueman...st-current.html The only one I MIGHT consider from our league or below is Poyet... But he's had LOADSAMONIES too and hasn't got a team very much better than ours... Adkins had another job before he went to Southampton, at a smaller club, in a better position. Ssausagehorpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonRam Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Good reply. Thanks it took me all morning and two coffees 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> It's nice to get some recognition though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'd have thought appearing from nowhere at te same time as someone else and criticise everything on every thread in a 24 hour blitzkrieg is always going to get on peoples nerves. It is having an agenda and ramming it down peoples throats. That isn't debate. Everyone has their own opinion, we wouldn't be here if we didn't like debates, but this approach has frankly looked liked WUMMERY. Would you make the same accusations if 2 people came on and started banging on about what a brilliant manager Clough is and how he should be given as long as it takes and what a strong team he has built? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Because managers with proven track records ALWAYS walk into the club and do well. I remember the footballing world going about what a coup we had pulled off bringing Jewell to the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Dean Holdsworth is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 So you don't actually disagree with anything I post? Bravo, welcome to reality. On the contrary. That is the reality. I've experienced impatience before. It wasn't fun. I've always backed Clough, sure he's frustrated me at times (Portsmouth away springs to mind) but I don't doubt he'll get us to where everybody would like us to be. If I was in the investors shoes I'd go for it because, for me, he's proved he's more than capable of achieving promotion. I can understand all the frustration that exists and also it be directed against Clough, the board and players. There is a lot of passion and love for our club in here but what I would like to see is that all that passion would materialize as a phenomenal backing the team on the game day. It is easy to blame everybody but it would be better earned after doing all you can yourself for the club. It's like most people are waiting to enjoy themselves instead of just getting on with it regardless. We need this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Adkins had another job before he went to Southampton, at a smaller club, in a better position. Ssausagehorpe. I refer you to my second post... AND are you trying to say we're a Ssausagehorpe size club? We'll start thinking you're a dirty red if you say things like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Di Matteo - Didn't do brilliantly at WBA and managers since have backed that up PLUS had a squad of VERY good players at Chelsea who didn't fire for him this season... Adkins - see post above, had loads of money to spend AND well... He probably is a good manager actually but not like 300% better than Nigel Coyle - Gimme a break dude... Oh my god, that's either lack of knowledge or plain ignorance! Di Matteo got West Brom promoted in his first season when they were in turmoil following relegation. they had to sell their better players after relegation and he got them promoted without touching a parachute payment. Adkins took over Ssausagehorpe and got them promoted, before taking over underachieving Southampton from Pardew and gaining back to back promotions, his net spend wasn't much more than Nigel's given the money he raised from sales. Coyle got Burnley promoted on a proper shoestring, using loan players and free transfers cleverly to put together a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 On the contrary. That is the reality. I've experienced impatience before. It wasn't fun. I've always backed Clough, sure he's frustrated me at times (Portsmouth away springs to mind) but I don't doubt he'll get us to where everybody would like us to be. If I was in the investors shoes I'd go for it because, for me, he's proved he's more than capable of achieving promotion. It's like most people are waiting to enjoy themselves instead of just getting on with it regardless. We need this guy. All it took is ONE guy to get it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 On the contrary. That is the reality. I've experienced impatience before. It wasn't fun. I've always backed Clough, sure he's frustrated me at times (Portsmouth away springs to mind) but I don't doubt he'll get us to where everybody would like us to be. If I was in the investors shoes I'd go for it because, for me, he's proved he's more than capable of achieving promotion. It's like most people are waiting to enjoy themselves instead of just getting on with it regardless. We need this guy. Can you please qualify that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 All it took is ONE guy to get it going. Just one guy man, one guy. Derby is a difficult place to please, but I believe it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDerby Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Clough will manage in the Premiership one day, I just hope it's with Derby. I'd also be willing to bet that he'd do better than most if he one day manages England. Some Derby fans forget he's having to teach these lads how to play a high level of against the grain passing football, they have next to no experience, I mean you can even see them looking across to him for help all the time! Combine that with no pot to p*ss in and **** fans that expect too much and it's quite a tough job.... I think Nigel and most of our players deserve praise for doing as well as they do! Clough in, up the rams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Oh my god, that's either lack of knowledge or plain ignorance! Di Matteo got West Brom promoted in his first season when they were in turmoil following relegation. they had to sell their better players after relegation and he got them promoted without touching a parachute payment. Adkins took over Ssausagehorpe and got them promoted, before taking over underachieving Southampton from Pardew and gaining back to back promotions, his net spend wasn't much more than Nigel's given the money he raised from sales. Coyle got Burnley promoted on a proper shoestring, using loan players and free transfers cleverly to put together a good team. Di Matteo did well at West Brom with a team which had been put together by Mowbray... check out the losses from this link: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_West_Bromwich_Albion_F.C._season#In]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_West_Bromwich_Albion_F.C._season#In You can't ignore the windfalls Adkins received for selling players like the Ox... That'd be like us getting £8 mill for Hughes and then not counting that if Nigel brought in 3 players who got us promoted... The fact is however he got the money, he had money to spend... Coyle's Burnely side have proved they were a one-season wonder by getting relegated and then not really challenging again, and Coyle himself didn't exactly do great at Bolton did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Can you please qualify that? It's very time consuming for me to qualify four years of Nigel Cloughs tenure. Read this if you've got time. [url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/years-Nigel-Clough-delivered-fronts-Derby-County/story-17798973-detail/story.html#axzz2LXPF4rQO]http://www.thisisder...l#axzz2LXPF4rQO NIGEL Clough was appointed manager of Derby County four years ago this week. He is the club's longest-serving manager since Jim Smith, who had the job from 1995 to 2001, and only nine managers in the country have been in their jobs longer than Clough. The simple way to showcase the progress made in the past four years is to turn the clock back to January 2009 and remember where Derby stood at that time and the mess Clough inherited. The Rams had fallen out of the Premier League in embarrassing fashion at the end of the previous season, 2007-08, with a record low number of points. Burdened by a huge squad and wage bill, life back in the Championship was proving extremely difficult and a run of one win in nine League games signalled the end of Paul Jewell's reign. Clough's first League game in charge should have been away to Cardiff City but the fixture was called off due to a frozen pitch and so Queens Park Rangers at Pride Park were his first opponents in the battle for much-needed points. Derby sat 20th and a demoralising 2-0 defeat at the hands of Rangers confirmed the scale of the task ahead. Boos rang out at half-time and again on the final whistle, although by then the ground was virtually empty as thousands of disappointed fans had already trudged away. "The same old symptoms and problems resurfaced and that is not something that is going to be eradicated in a week or two," Clough said afterwards. There were no promises, no suggestions of a quick-fix, no timescale. (I believe a 10 year plan was spoken of at some point though) Turning a club around, building foundations and instilling a new ethic was going to take time – and quite a lot of it. A thorough shake-up was needed and such shake-ups are not completed in months, they take years. Clough's remit was firstly to keep the club in the Championship and then reduce the size and average age of the squad, slash the wage bill and develop young talent while remaining competitive in the division. He has delivered on all fronts. Four years on from being unveiled as Jewell's successor, Clough and his staff have pieced together and moulded a team that is in better shape than any Rams side since the promotion season of 2006-07. This has been achieved while working to a tight budget. The achievement is all the more remarkable given his meagre net spend in the four years, way below the amounts spent by a number of Championship clubs, including the Rams' East Midlands rivals, Leicester City and Nottingham Forest. (the same could be said for a fair few other clubs, including Cardiff. These 3 clubs are lucky in that their owners cleared the debts and continued to spend a lot more than Derby County) The January transfer window has only been open a matter of days and Leicester have forked out £2m to sign striker Chris Wood from West Bromwich Albion. Clough has overhauled the squad inside only seven full transfer windows and dramatically cut the wage bill at the same time, no easy task. Gems have emerged from the Academy and some are playing lead roles. Will Hughes, at only 17, and 20-year-old Jeff Hendrick have become key players. They are assets, Hughes a particularly valuable one, but there are others because a number of Clough's signings have increased in value, John Brayford being an example, Paul Coutts another. Derby signed Coutts from Preston North End for a fee of around £100,000 rising to £150,000. What is he worth now on his performances in the first half of this season? Other signings have not worked – Chris Maguire, David Martin and Chris Porter, to name three – but no manager can have a 100% success rate in the transfer market and shopping in the £200,000 to £500,000 market is far more difficult than having the resources to splash millions. Supporters are now seeing a vibrant group of players who play with determination and desire and have a thirst to learn. A touch more quality in certain areas would be welcome at times – that is the next step – but the efforts of the players cannot be questioned. They have shown, certainly at home, that they can take on the best the division has to offer and, given the performances in general this season, their current position of being only three points adrift of the play-off places is not a false one. There have been low points in the past four years. A 4-1 home defeat by Ssausagehorpe United three years ago was a juddering moment as was the 5-2 hammering by Nottingham Forest and the FA Cup exit at the hands of Crawley Town, a non-League outfit at the time. Lengthy runs without a League win, like the eight-match sequence early in 2011 that included five consecutive defeats at Pride Park, was a testing spell. But for those examples, there are more memorable moments. Four victories over Forest at the City Ground, one of which was gained while playing with 10 men for virtually all of the game. A string of wins against Leeds and a purple patch in 2010, when a run of eight victories in 11 matches lifted Clough's team to fourth, are right up there along with the four successive victories at the beginning of 2011-12, Derby's best start to a season in 106 years. Another sequence of four straight wins later that season saw Derby climb to seventh and although they ended the campaign 12th, it was their highest finish in five years and their third best in 13 seasons. This season, the Rams have been as consistent as at any time under Clough and their home form has been impressive. They have won six and drawn one of their last eight matches at Pride Park. Derby are a work in progress under Clough. The team have developed and improved in the past 12 months and, while there is still work to do, the signs are encouraging. If anybody is in any doubt about that, just think back to that first game against QPR. You can call this cheating if you want, but I've got to get the pots washed and kitchen spotless before the missis gets home with her parents for Thursdays tea. There's some positives and negatives in there. But mostly I wanted to highlight the overhaul of the squad, the tight budget and the gentle improvement of our position and financial status over the past 4 years. Including the signing of players whose value will have increased instead of large sums for players with the wrong attitude and little ability. Financially we can't compete with Cardiff, Leicester, Forest and maybe next season the likes of Palace. There's a fair few other clubs like Blackburn and Bolton who will, financially, be in a better position than us. With a bit more money allowed for wages in particular, Clough would gain promotion. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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