Nigel Cloughs negative away form

[ChaddesdenRam]

Indeed ward is the key.

[BOB BIGGS]

Progress is progress i suppose.

It's about mentality I think. Not formations.

Couldn't agree more. Also agree that a lot of this of this has to come from the players. I think a number of them are turning the corner but it's a big corner......

[ramesses]

Progress is progress i suppose.

It's about mentality I think. Not formations.

I don’t think the way Clough sets them up home or away is that much of a problem. I also think the mentality, attitude, focus, determination (or whatever) of the players is first rate no matter what the formation.

I think the main problem is the quality of the players being asked to carry out instructions – especially up front. Maybe that's why this thread moved onto Ward who, on his day at least, is the one player you hope might be able to create something out of nothing for himself or for others.

[ConorDoyle'sLoveChild]

I went to the Burnley game, one of the few away games I have watched this season, and found that Derby seemed to lack something in their performance which the have at home. I think this is probably a mentality thing with the players, however I do not think 1 up front is working for us away from home

[Guest]

or wecscore in 63% of games and gain points in 47% of games.

This year our home form has improved and we have had our best first half of a season since promotion

Signs of improvement

Or we are 12th, where we finished last season

[Day]

Goal bonuses for away goals, and lose you don't get paid. Only way players are motivated these days is through the wallet.

[curb]

We just don't take risks.

Mr Tibbs is spot on as usual. We 'set up' differently. It's everybody making sure they keep things tight and simple. It's too safe. It must be because we lose as much as we win

I think Nigel has always played too safe. Apart from purple patches (this season not included) I think we've worried far more about not losing than winning. About doing what's safest. We've had our moments (at home) but overall I'd say we have been a conservative side.

This season has been a much longer/braver attempt at playing possession football.

Away though. The midfield hold a flat line, striker(s) get isolated. The home team take encouragement, we get rattled, they get in, we get sloppy, they score, we're stuck in 2nd gear and 1-0 down. Everything is against us now. It's too late.

I just want to see them set about things with more arrogance. Just leave a few holes to get into promising areas. You might lose 5-0, but we do these things at home. We risk getting caught on the counter at home and.... Well, we often don't get caught. We might even win 5-0.

It's like the Hull home game. I've heard loads of moaning about that but it wasn't a bad performance. Hull are good. But some of those thinking they have discovered a new problem should check out a few away games. Isolated striker, flat midfield/square passing..... add some flapping and and touch of clumsiness and you've got an away game. Against P'Boro/Barnsley/ Watford etc.

At least that game was against a good opponent!

The keep it tight, flat tight lines and work off a striker approach would be sold to me if it worked more often. It does for some teams. But look at our away record. Look at how we go to Milwall/Watford and are happy to draw before KO. Lets try being more pro active than reactive.

We try to make good decisions and keep things so safe a 7/10 every home game player like Bryson becomes a 6/10. Everybody just loses that spark away. And the whole team drops.

If 'away Derby' came to PP and played 'home Derby' next Saturday we'd all say they came for a draw. But we'd beat them because for some reason they aren't that solid.

It's a shame because we have made progress this year. It just could of felt even better.

Progress is progress i suppose.

It's about mentality I think. Not formations.

Absolutely agree with this, except I'd go one further and say he's actually scared of losing, which over-rides his desire to win.

I remember the first summer he was here, after a pretty dire finish to the season where we were in a relegation scrap, during pre-season he had the players passing and moving, hed obviously tod Bywater not to kick it out because we passed it from the back all the time. I remember getting quite excited about watching a team again with a passing outlook, only for the season to start and we reverted back to the scrappy rubbish that we finished the previous season with.

I personally don't think he's got the strength of his convictions, away from home he sets up not to lose, and invariably does.

[Boycie]

Well if its wet, Ward won't be risked unless its an emergency ward.

[Leicester Ram]

I think we should sell Hughes for 11 million and buy an entire team of Spaniard's (all of whom will be 37646780751905378 times the player Hughes is.

[Bris Vegas]

I think Alpha has pretty much covered it..

We can all talk formations and tactics but in reality a 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2. 4-2-4, 4-1-3-2, 4-3-2-1 etc etc. can be played in both a positive and a negative manner..

I've mentioned many times over the past 5 seasons that I hate the way we approach the last 15 minutes where the mentality is 'if we're drawing we'll take what we've got'.. It's the overall mentality of 'an away draw is a good result' or the 'win your home games draw away'... It's such a backwards way of thinking as looking at the stats going for an average of 1 point per game away heaps so much pressure on a team to have a more than good home record.. You need an excellent home record just to compensate

I've never been so disappopinted to see NC delighted with picking up a point away at Barnsley or Watford..

Until NC changes the mentality of the players especially away from we'll never get promoted under him.. A team in the top 6 has to be winning at least 30% of their away games.. In fact looking at it now the only team in there that's under 30% is Leicester, whilst compensated by an excellent home record, i garauntee they won't make the playoffs unless they go over 30%.

This season as progress goes I don't really see it away from home.. In 12 games we've won 3 (25%) and only scored 10 goals..

[davenportram]

Birmingham and Blackpool managed it with just 30.4% (7 wins) last season so theres no reason why Leicester cant stay there this season if they win 4 more away games and keep the home form going

[davenportram]

20 wins in total is normally enough to get a play off spot. So we need to win 11 more times to be in with a shout

[ramesses]

I think Alpha has pretty much covered it..

We can all talk formations and tactics but in reality a 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2. 4-2-4, 4-1-3-2, 4-3-2-1 etc etc. can be played in both a positive and a negative manner..

I've mentioned many times over the past 5 seasons that I hate the way we approach the last 15 minutes where the mentality is 'if we're drawing we'll take what we've got'.. It's the overall mentality of 'an away draw is a good result' or the 'win your home games draw away'... It's such a backwards way of thinking as looking at the stats going for an average of 1 point per game away heaps so much pressure on a team to have a more than good home record.. You need an excellent home record just to compensate

I've never been so disappopinted to see NC delighted with picking up a point away at Barnsley or Watford..

Until NC changes the mentality of the players especially away from we'll never get promoted under him.. A team in the top 6 has to be winning at least 30% of their away games.. In fact looking at it now the only team in there that's under 30% is Leicester, whilst compensated by an excellent home record, i garauntee they won't make the playoffs unless they go over 30%.

This season as progress goes I don't really see it away from home.. In 12 games we've won 3 (25%) and only scored 10 goals..

Yes, Alpha’s just about covered it for all the odd balls who think ‘mentality’ can somehow compensate for the fairly solid, hardworking, mid table quality of the squad - especially up front.

Alpha also appears to have covered it for those who’ve never rated Clough and will use any old stick to beat him up with.

If Clough thought we’d win more away games than we’d lose by depending on the natural creativity, initiative, and skill of the players at his disposal then his ‘mentality’ would probably change quite quickly. Until then I don’t think he has too many options.

[gcdcfc28]

Can't believe almost four years into his tenure and he still hasn't found a formation suitable for away games.

Anyone else and they'd be slaughtered by the supporters.

[Mr Tibbs]

Can't believe almost four years into his tenure and he still hasn't found a formation suitable for away games.

Anyone else and they'd be slaughtered by the supporters.

Bit daft considering you take things game by game, does Fergie play 4-4-2 every game away from home?

It's not the formation thats the problem, it's the approach and performance we put in.

[Bris Vegas]

Yes, Alpha’s just about covered it for all the odd balls who think ‘mentality’ can somehow compensate for the fairly solid, hardworking, mid table quality of the squad - especially up front.

Alpha also appears to have covered it for those who’ve never rated Clough and will use any old stick to beat him up with.

If Clough thought we’d win more away games than we’d lose by depending on the natural creativity, initiative, and skill of the players at his disposal then his ‘mentality’ would probably change quite quickly. Until then I don’t think he has too many options.

But you have to wonder how a team can score 26 home goals in 12 games, more than 2 per game on average, to one that has scored 10 in 12 games.. or 86 in 92 overall..

It's the same sport, same football, same players and same pitch.. So why are the differences absolutely massive?

Mentality.. And a negative one too..

You can't use the midtable quality thing as an excuse.. The likes of Millwall, Watford, Bristol City have also been midtable quality teams but have scored more goals and accumulated more points than us away from home over the past few seasons... Why is that?

[sage]

But you have to wonder how a team can score 26 home goals in 12 games, more than 2 per game on average, to one that has scored 10 in 12 games.. or 86 in 92 overall..

It's the same sport, same football, same players and same pitch.. So why are the differences absolutely massive?

Mentality.. And a negative one too..

You can't use the midtable quality thing as an excuse.. The likes of Millwall, Watford, Bristol City have also been midtable quality teams but have scored more goals and accumulated more points than us away from home over the past few seasons... Why is that?

Are we being negative today?

[davenportram]

This season as progress goes I don't really see it away from home.. In 12 games we've won 3 (25%) and only scored 10 goals..

we only need to win 4 more away games to reach the magical 30%

[eranio20]

Another game we should have won today, throwing away too many 3 points to be in with a chance of the play offs.

Robinson and Sammon aren't the answer, sorry.

Time to cash in on Robinson in the window, sell him and the crock of **** like Doyle and we might generate about a fiver to buy someone from Bognor FC.

The formation(s) is dull and there is never a plan b if things don't go our way.

Well done Ward, even only half fit it's another game where you show up the likes of Hendrick, Coutts and Bryson.

[ramesses]

But you have to wonder how a team can score 26 home goals in 12 games, more than 2 per game on average, to one that has scored 10 in 12 games.. or 86 in 92 overall..

It's the same sport, same football, same players and same pitch.. So why are the differences absolutely massive?

Mentality.. And a negative one too..

You can't use the midtable quality thing as an excuse.. The likes of Millwall, Watford, Bristol City have also been midtable quality teams but have scored more goals and accumulated more points than us away from home over the past few seasons... Why is that?

I wasn’t clear enough.

What I was saying is that the squad this season, especially up front, really isn’t good enough to get us into the top six by the end of the season - irrespective of ‘mentality’ or tactics.

Nevertheless, things have improved a lot this season. In previous seasons there wasn’t enough half decent cover for injuries and the first team often looked barely good to stay in this division – again irrespective of ‘mentality’ or tactics.

I really don’t have much to say about your simplistic interpretations of multi-season statistics – but I’d appreciate any information about where you think our current strikers sit, stand or wobble on the ‘rubbery ankle index’.