is this our year for promation

[Bris Vegas]

No, it's saying www.dcfcfans.co.uk does what it says on the tin, you should really post on www.dcfcfansicanwindupfrombrhindmypchavingneverbeentoamatch.com

I have been to many games.. Not that it's particularly relevant..

And you're suggesting I'm winding people up by saying it's fanciful and rather unrealistic for us to make the playoffs and did so using many valid points?

Why do you even bother posting on here if all you want to read is 'Derby are amazing' or 'Derby are going up' or 'Will Hughes for Barcelona' or 'NC is a top top manager' or 'Brayford is the best RB in the league'

If you don't like opinion you're wasting your time on here buddy.. Go out with your mates and talk about how good Derby are, surely that'll be better than reading through a forum and getting wound up by a few posters who take a different approach to the rose tinted glasses approach

[dabber]

Are you talking about GSE or the investors?

The investors

[Guest]

Yes, but you'd also be in league 1

It's been 4 years since we were in the Prem, we're still way off Prem standard and still in debt.

If we did go up we'd have to spend around 50 million to compete, and commit to 4 years worth of monstrous wages, and when we come down again we'd be in even more debt.

Why would they want that when as it stands they've got a nice little turnover?

I struggle to remember any team that has had £50 million instant outlay to stay in the Premier League.

Wages really should be covered by increase in tv revenue/parachute payments following relegation.

The club may have a nice turnover, but I imagine the investors are more concerned with the loss the club is making and the fact they are getting next to f**k all out of it!

[curb]

The investors

But the investors don't set the policies or manage the club, GSE do, and they're getting their annual management fees no matter what division they're in.

The investors agreed to put in an amount of money 5 years ago, which they haven't had a return on yet, but they are sports people, they would know exactly what they're letting themselselves in for. There are no guarantees that they will make anything, in fact I would say that they would be very surprised if they did make money out of it.

[davenportram]

This is our best record at the halfway point for 6 years - in other words since Billy's promotion season.

Have we improved?

[Philmycock]

I have been to many games.. Not that it's particularly relevant..

And you're suggesting I'm winding people up by saying it's fanciful and rather unrealistic for us to make the playoffs and did so using many valid points?

Why do you even bother posting on here if all you want to read is 'Derby are amazing' or 'Derby are going up' or 'Will Hughes for Barcelona' or 'NC is a top top manager' or 'Brayford is the best RB in the league'

If you don't like opinion you're wasting your time on here buddy.. Go out with your mates and talk about how good Derby are, surely that'll be better than reading through a forum and getting wound up by a few posters who take a different approach to the rose tinted glasses approach

You're opinions are always against the tide, just for effect and just to wind people up. I'm very subjective about my team, but then I can be cuz I watch them in the flesh every week, with friends, it's great!

Anyone on here who shows the slightest bit of optimism you jump on them and insist you know best, and it's not even now and again, it's all the time.

A true fan doesn't do that, just lighten up, buddy.

[Albert]

I have to be honest here, there is nothing wrong with Bri$$$$$$$$$$$, or his points of view. That is, so long as he, or others, don't outright lie. This is a forum after all, we need people of all points of view, all backgrounds, all personalities. The key here isn't blindly supporting the club, but giving our honest view on it, and doing so in an honest manner. If we all sat around talking about how great everything is, it would be a tad pointless. For that matter, if it were a run away hate fest of the current management, it would also be so. Bri$$$$$ may be annoying to some, but ultimately he's that other side of the coin, and to be fair, he's not the worst that's been on here. If he doesn't just lie about things, and is actually willing to offer something in support of his opinion I really can't see the issue with him.

[eddie]

I like reading Bris Vegas's comments, and they do a great service. They stop me setting fire to ants with a magnifying glass or pulling the legs off spiders.

[Anag Ram]

You're opinions are always against the tide, just for effect and just to wind people up. I'm very subjective about my team, but then I can be cuz I watch them in the flesh every week, with friends, it's great!

Anyone on here who shows the slightest bit of optimism you jump on them and insist you know best, and it's not even now and again, it's all the time.

A true fan doesn't do that, just lighten up, buddy.

Purely from my perspective, I think we are doing about as well as we can with the squad we have. When you look at the opposition players each week, you wonder how we are going to get anything out of the game but the fact is we play as a team. When we moan about this player or that and their shortcomings, we have to realise that if their game was complete they would have been snapped up by a pretty moderate Premiership.

I think we'll finish tenth or thereabouts. It would be silly for us to go up because we'd need about £20 million to survive. Also, we have most of our best players to pick from right now. A few injuries and we'd be in the cart. I always enjoy watching Derby because I always feel they are trying their hardest. Good luck to them and to you in 2013.

[SK47]

i always said from the start of the season, we are a mid table team.. THATS IT.. NOTHING MORE. The only way we are guna be playoff contenders is if we strengthen in Jan with some Absolute miracle loans, which isnt going to happen. We have have a minority of players that are of the quality to get us there, but in this league it isnt enough. You have to spend to get out this league ( with money we dont have. ) If you compare our presant squad to the one billy had when we were promoted, it was alot stronger and looked like we could beat anyone in the league, But now its not the case. Finishing 10th to me is just like finishing 18th or 1 place above the relegation zone, it doesnt get me excited or thinking " Maybe next year" because it will be the same every year, Players in and out, Like for Like and untill we get investment this is where we will stay.

[dabber]

But the investors don't set the policies or manage the club, GSE do, and they're getting their annual management fees no matter what division they're in.

The investors agreed to put in an amount of money 5 years ago, which they haven't had a return on yet, but they are sports people, they would know exactly what they're letting themselselves in for. There are no guarantees that they will make anything, in fact I would say that they would be very surprised if they did make money out of it.

But the investors employ GSE to do the job they do. Currently the investors are paying about 7M a year to cover the losses generated by the GSE management, so I would be very surprised if they are happy for this to be the case for too long. How they solve that is another issue, sell Hughes and cover their losses, employ a different management team or try a different approach?

[curb]

Although there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they would do that.

It's a bit of a strange situation. You say if they're not happy they might employ another management team.

Do you mean GSE? If so, they're the ones who brought the investors in, I'm not sure the investors CAN sack GSE as they technically own the club.

If you mean sack Clough and his management team, then they have been very consistent to insist that they aren't going to do that, which suggests to me that they are happy with where we are, a mid table championship club with a mid table team and mid table manager.

My guess is they'll look to cover the losses by selling players, but we'll have to wait and see with that one.

[eddie]

I'm not sure that I totally agree with the supposition that GSE and/or the investors are 'happy with where we are', although they might be happy with the progress that has been made. We were told from the word 'go' when Clough arrived that it would be a long building process, where we would be looking for year-on-year improvement.

What is absolutely certain is the 'speculate to accumulate' approach is not for them - but if Clough can get us promoted, they are not exactly going to turn it down.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

If you can't accept different opinions then you really shouldn't be posting on an internet forum

I am very comfortable with others opinions thank you. I am also very comfortable with my own. My opinion is that you portray yourself as something akin to a critic rather than a fan. Your critique of Derby seems to be based on champions league/premier league/spanish/football. My problem with this is that it isn't realistic or relevant to Derby County playing currently in the Championship. If they had a forum you may as well post critical comments regarding your local pub side in relation to Derby County. I don't see the point unless it is an effort to imply superior knowledge of the game or portray yourself as someone who only accepts first class and thus has higher standards than the second class plebs.

At the moment the team are trying to pass and move. They are far from perfect but they are trying and having a fair old go.Up until they scored Hull hardly had a kick.Much much better entertainment than the last few years. Are they as good as most in the premier league, probably not. Are they in line for the champions league? Nowhere near. Sure we can discuss the pro's & cons of the game. I can see the flaws of Connor Sammon for instance as well as you can. I can see the limitations of Craig Bryson. I get frustrated with our defending of a lead. I can however also see the makings of a decent side and it's that aspect I prefer to voice.

Be critical if you must but please don't just engage in attempts at superior point scoring.

[dabber]

Although there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they would do that.

It's a bit of a strange situation. You say if they're not happy they might employ another management team.

Do you mean GSE? If so, they're the ones who brought the investors in, I'm not sure the investors CAN sack GSE as they technically own the club.

If you mean sack Clough and his management team, then they have been very consistent to insist that they aren't going to do that, which suggests to me that they are happy with where we are, a mid table championship club with a mid table team and mid table manager.

My guess is they'll look to cover the losses by selling players, but we'll have to wait and see with that one.

No I was definitely referring to the GSE management team. I am very much in the pro-Clough camp and can see the tangible evidence for improvement on the field. However my concern is with the patience the investors / GSE have for the steady improvement approach. Will GSE / investors be forced to sell Hughes or A.N Other asset to pay off the losses or can they continue to absorb them until we reach the promised land?

I had never thought about who calls the shots be it GSE / investors as I had always assumed the investors employ GSE to run the show and can replace them if they aren't satisfied with the job they are doing and not the other way around. Perhaps the investors would simply pull out but that would mean a greater loss for them than hanging on hoping for promotion?

As G-Star said I am also perplexed how much more we can reduce our expenditures so that we are not making these losses as it seems we cannot cut the playing staff's wages much (any) further. So what else could be cut? Alternatively how do they generate more revenue. Clearly there are at least 10,000 seats left un-filled every home game but to attract the fans back the product on the field has to improve further and selling the likes of Hughes is unlikely to achieve that, unless all that money is ploughed back into the team, but then the wage envelop increases... Sorry if this has just turned into a going round in circles waffle!

[ramblur]

It seems fairly clear to me that GSE identified the 'target' and then brought investors on board (which is probably why it dragged on so long-they didn't even pay the whole takeover consideration up front),possibly by a mixture of prospectus and contacting investors invol;ved in past ventures.To me this effectively makes GSE investment managers,as opposed to the investors employing GSE as managers.That's why I've likened it in the past to investment trusts/unit trusts where the investment managers invite investors to come on board.However,our investors would have considerably more say than 'trust' investors,but I somehow doubt they'd find it easy to ditch GSE.A lot depends on the initial agreement,and I doubt GSE would have included any clause that might lead to their removal.

All purely opinion of course.

[Bris Vegas]

I might aswell use this to keep a running statistical outlook to possible playoff spots..

33 points from 24 games, needing 42 points from 22 remaining games.. 11 at home and 11 away..

A home record of 8-1-2 = 25 points

An away record of 5-2-3 = 17 points

That would be enough.. It's a tough tough ask for us to win 50% of our remaining away games as we're only at around 26%

Also our home record needs to drastically improve aswell..

We could win more than 50% of our remaining games (12) and pick up 6 draws which leaves us open to only 4 losses.. But this seems even more unlikely..

Records of 13-3-5 or 12-6-4 or 11-9-2 or 14-0-8 would all be enough.. If I were NC I'd now be drilling it into the players that draws are now becoming pointless.. We'd be far better off risking losing games and going for the win that trying to hold our for a draw.. We could go 15 or 16 games unbeaten and end up with a lesser amount of points as losing 8 of the remaining 22 games..

In a nutshell.. I think we've now left ourselves too much of a gap to make the playoffs.. Despite being only 4 points off now (5 if you include GD) it doesn't look too far away but you have to take the average of past seasons and reach for a particular points tally as we know there will be one or two who really find some form later on in March/April time.

[PistoldPete]

I might aswell use this to keep a running statistical outlook to possible playoff spots..

33 points from 24 games, needing 42 points from 22 remaining games.. 11 at home and 11 away..

A home record of 8-1-2 = 25 points

An away record of 5-2-3 = 17 points

That would be enough.. It's a tough tough ask for us to win 50% of our remaining away games as we're only at around 26%

Also our home record needs to drastically improve aswell..

We could win more than 50% of our remaining games (12) and pick up 6 draws which leaves us open to only 4 losses.. But this seems even more unlikely..

Records of 13-3-5 or 12-6-4 or 11-9-2 or 14-0-8 would all be enough.. If I were NC I'd now be drilling it into the players that draws are now becoming pointless.. We'd be far better off risking losing games and going for the win that trying to hold our for a draw.. We could go 15 or 16 games unbeaten and end up with a lesser amount of points as losing 8 of the remaining 22 games..

In a nutshell.. I think we've now left ourselves too much of a gap to make the playoffs.. Despite being only 4 points off now (5 if you include GD) it doesn't look too far away but you have to take the average of past seasons and reach for a particular points tally as we know there will be one or two who really find some form later on in March/April time.

I think 75 points is a bit high for a 6th spot although that was needed last year.

What is troubling me is the fact that we have not managed to win more than two on the spin all year. We really need a good run of 4 or 5 wins. We need to sort out the defensive mess at corners and quick, or else this season is going to be yet another damp squib.

[ChaddesdenRam]

I went today and pretty much if we play like that we won't get pomoted. The annoying thing is there have been some quality performances. Consistency is key if we are to be in the top 10 this season I will be worried if we don't get a point at Carlton.

[SillyBilly]

In a nutshell.. I think we've now left ourselves too much of a gap to make the playoffs.. Despite being only 4 points off now (5 if you include GD) it doesn't look too far away but you have to take the average of past seasons and reach for a particular points tally as we know there will be one or two who really find some form later on in March/April time.

Reasonable analysis in general.

4-5 points is a lot considering that teams who finish in the playoffs are regularly winning games themselves. In essence, we'd need to win 3, most probably 4 games straight to even get level with the pace. I can't see it happening. TBH I expected more from the last 2 games.