Ravabeerbelly

I’ll try and be brief without using one liners or being too controversial….don’t want to upset the apple cart further ?
My biggest bug bear is immediate and over the top reactions to players on their first few appearances and the subsequent questions / criticisms that arise a few games later about what they can’t do. It’s so typically ‘English’ and it’s so dated and archaic.
The easiest games a young player will ever play as a pro, are his first 2/3. He’s driven on adrenalin, enthusiasm, no fear and a complete lack of any kind of expectation from those watching. Everything he does is a bonus and his focus and eagerness to do the right thing and follow instructions overrides everything.
After that it only gets harder until you have played 60/70 games! Those next 30/40 are riddled with ups and downs and more and more public criticism than they’ve ever had in their lives and more than most slip away and never have a career. 
Im critical and I’ve seen the process many times, which is why I try not to fall into the ‘sweeping statements’ camp early on. 
My other bug bear is when there is no understanding of the players capabilities or their limitations and after the initial few appearances of doing the simple things….or the things they are capable of…people then criticise them for not doing things they’ve never done in the first place. A prime example being when people started to question if Thompson could score goals or if he had a shot on him…..
I think we have to be realistic and say that not one of them would have in normal circumstances have had their chance this early had it not been for the circumstances and probably realistic to say they wouldn’t have commanded a regular place at any other Championship side. However it’s probably also fair to say that in the short term none of them have looked out of place or been anything other than a credit to themselves or the club.
I include the lads early season that played Carabao Cup games in that too and in many of those cases they out performed some of their counterparts but were never given other opportunity's.

Realistically, Festy is the only one I’d consider a serious contender for selection each week with a fully fit squad. I have my reservations on Festy however and much depends on where he wants to end up playing. If he wants to be a full back, the skys the limit. He reminds me a lot of Reece James with a more devastating turn of pace. Defensively that’ll put him on the Ashley Cole category and I think he’ll play in the Prem. As a winger though I’m not so sure. I don’t think he has the technical ability to mix up his game and he doesn’t have the touch and awareness to play inside the wide areas like many wide attackers are asked to do. 
Plange is a player I highlighted as someone I liked early on this season. Before he scored regular goals in the 23s and long before he was anywhere near a 1st team picture. However I don’t see him as a no 9. He doesn’t have either the pace to really trouble top defenders in behind and he’s not proficient enough in the air to provide an alternative to that. He does have great technical ability though and I see him as an inside forward….a 7/10/11 playing in pockets.
My other observations may not be popular….
Cashin I’m not convinced is a Championship player. Saturday as I said will be the easiest game of his football life and Peterborough the kindest of opposition for any debut making Centre back. I think he’ll have a pro career but maybe not in the Championship. 
 
Liam Thompson did brilliantly for several games but if I’m honest the reaction was way over the top and we’re largely driven by the occasion - Bournemouth on live TV - and the result - a cracking win! Another example of the first few games being the easiest. When questions were asked of him and other teams put more pressure on him in possession he’s found it difficult. He still has lots of developing to do but there are lots of players that play his role and and I’m not sure what will set him apart from others….funnily enough it’s done him a favour being at Derby and how they play and in the championship. League 1 or 2 will have seen him swallowed whole.
Another factor largely driving fans perception of player performance, particularly on young players is the result! A 3-0 drubbing gives nowhere near the same perception of an individual performance as a hard earn 1-0 win….regardless of individual player input…as players like Brown, McDonald, Watson, Hutchinson found after the Carabao Cup loss to Sheff Utd.

That was an interesting resume ? and I agree with what you've said, except maybe I think Cashin could become a decent Championship player. ?

Did I say I’d keep it brief? ? 
At least no one liners though ?

I’ll try and be brief without using one liners or being too controversial….don’t want to upset the apple cart further ?
My biggest bug bear is immediate and over the top reactions to players on their first few appearances and the subsequent questions / criticisms that arise a few games later about what they can’t do. It’s so typically ‘English’ and it’s so dated and archaic.
The easiest games a young player will ever play as a pro, are his first 2/3. He’s driven on adrenalin, enthusiasm, no fear and a complete lack of any kind of expectation from those watching. Everything he does is a bonus and his focus and eagerness to do the right thing and follow instructions overrides everything.
After that it only gets harder until you have played 60/70 games! Those next 30/40 are riddled with ups and downs and more and more public criticism than they’ve ever had in their lives and more than most slip away and never have a career. 
Im critical and I’ve seen the process many times, which is why I try not to fall into the ‘sweeping statements’ camp early on. 
My other bug bear is when there is no understanding of the players capabilities or their limitations and after the initial few appearances of doing the simple things….or the things they are capable of…people then criticise them for not doing things they’ve never done in the first place. A prime example being when people started to question if Thompson could score goals or if he had a shot on him…..
I think we have to be realistic and say that not one of them would have in normal circumstances have had their chance this early had it not been for the circumstances and probably realistic to say they wouldn’t have commanded a regular place at any other Championship side. However it’s probably also fair to say that in the short term none of them have looked out of place or been anything other than a credit to themselves or the club.
I include the lads early season that played Carabao Cup games in that too and in many of those cases they out performed some of their counterparts but were never given other opportunity's.

Realistically, Festy is the only one I’d consider a serious contender for selection each week with a fully fit squad. I have my reservations on Festy however and much depends on where he wants to end up playing. If he wants to be a full back, the skys the limit. He reminds me a lot of Reece James with a more devastating turn of pace. Defensively that’ll put him on the Ashley Cole category and I think he’ll play in the Prem. As a winger though I’m not so sure. I don’t think he has the technical ability to mix up his game and he doesn’t have the touch and awareness to play inside the wide areas like many wide attackers are asked to do. 
Plange is a player I highlighted as someone I liked early on this season. Before he scored regular goals in the 23s and long before he was anywhere near a 1st team picture. However I don’t see him as a no 9. He doesn’t have either the pace to really trouble top defenders in behind and he’s not proficient enough in the air to provide an alternative to that. He does have great technical ability though and I see him as an inside forward….a 7/10/11 playing in pockets.
My other observations may not be popular….
Cashin I’m not convinced is a Championship player. Saturday as I said will be the easiest game of his football life and Peterborough the kindest of opposition for any debut making Centre back. I think he’ll have a pro career but maybe not in the Championship. 
 
Liam Thompson did brilliantly for several games but if I’m honest the reaction was way over the top and we’re largely driven by the occasion - Bournemouth on live TV - and the result - a cracking win! Another example of the first few games being the easiest. When questions were asked of him and other teams put more pressure on him in possession he’s found it difficult. He still has lots of developing to do but there are lots of players that play his role and and I’m not sure what will set him apart from others….funnily enough it’s done him a favour being at Derby and how they play and in the championship. League 1 or 2 will have seen him swallowed whole.
Another factor largely driving fans perception of player performance, particularly on young players is the result! A 3-0 drubbing gives nowhere near the same perception of an individual performance as a hard earn 1-0 win….regardless of individual player input…as players like Brown, McDonald, Watson, Hutchinson found after the Carabao Cup loss to Sheff Utd.

When you explain your 'negative sounding' posts about certain players in the manner you have above, it becomes much easier to see where you're coming from and even, agree with your point of view. #COYR

You’ve looked through my last 15 posts on one thread? Well that’s balanced.
Because I choose to make informed, balanced comments based on my own opinion from watching the games, instead of using over inflated, over excited hyperbole to describe someone I’ve read about on Twitter or seen as a sub for 3 mins when we were 3-0 down?
Funnily enough I checked out your posts from the previous twenty pages of just your posts…..and it seems you have an opinion on everything from Covid, to admin, to TV to the weather. Granted you’ve contributed articulately and thoughtfully on all those, but the one topic I’ve barely seen you post an opinion on the actual football match or the footballer other than post match ratings where it’s acceptable to mark a player out of 10 without understanding or commenting  on any of the nuances that contribute to it.
You may not agree with my comments or indeed like them but all I’m doing is posting an opinion and while it’s sometimes harsh it’s never scathing, abusive or vindictive. But it is after all a football forum and honest opinions, even if unpopular, are what it is for. However none of my comments on young players are even close to some of what I’ve read on matchday threads when things are going badly including some aimed at one or two of the younger players.
You may not like them but my comments are anything but ignorant or ill informed. I’ve been inside pro football as a player and a coach. I’ve coached several current pros inc premier league players and been in youth development at a Category 1 academy. I could discuss the finer points all day long but in a forum it often comes across differently in short one line observations.
But fwiw, our predicament at the moment is in danger of harming as many players as it aids. Players fast tracked into 23s or 1st team football too soon often on the back of some promising performances at U18s level isn’t always good. Robinson for example may well end up a decent player but trust me when I say he’s finding U23s football hard and keeping his head above water by keeping the game simple and trying not to make mistakes isn’t good for him on the long run and in 2/3 years time when someone is criticising him for not having more tools on his toolbox of game skills and asking why he doesn’t play forwards more often, or break lines with his passing it’ll be because he was being asked to play at a level too high too soon and wasn’t able to take risks, try things out, spend time on the ball and make mistakes. He’s not the only one either.
This is the very reason why someone like Louie Watson isn’t being rushed into the first team where the pressure to retain possession and not ‘cost the team’ by taking a risk is much greater and as much as he may not like it right now, he’ll be a better player for being given a little more time where he is. I’ve seen the criticism of Max Bird…and it won’t be long before the same people say the same things about Liam Thompson. 
I’m happy to talk football all day. But don’t expect to like or agree with me, which is fine, but likewise don’t criticise me for how I express an opinion. 

@86 Hair Islands if you won’t quote it, I’m happy to. 
This is the post that is claimed to show realism and objectivity.
if you’re going for realism and objectivity, then you’re expecting me to believe that this guy has never once played a forward pass. Or possibly that you’ve only ever actually seen him touch the ball twice.
This is hyperbole and opinion, not realism or fact, exaggerated to make him sound worse than he is, which is absolutely the right way to encourage kids. 
Or, to put it another way, every single time I’ve seen a post from you if you’re not slagging off a youth team player, you’re normally kicking it off.

He’s a very young lad and needs backing 

Blimey there's some overkill going on. He was alright, but until the last 10 minutes and that nutmeg that's all he was.
Would have preferred to see Stretton given some game time.

The replies seem pretty positive. He got the assist for the opening goal and by all accounts did well.

The replies seem pretty positive. He got the assist for the opening goal and by all accounts did well.

The replies seem pretty positive. He got the assist for the opening goal and by all accounts did well.

Half time thoughts as per :-
Foulkes still needs to work on his distribution ?
Louie Watson is seriously lacking confidence ?
Cybulski needs some support and I’m not his biggest fan but he gets little or no help ?
Robinson is a better defender than he is a midfielder ?
So is Clarke and I think that’s where he’ll end up ?
Im still not sure who thought Aghatise is first team material ?
Liam Delap really isn’t that good technically and I’m not sure he’ll have a career at Man City… ?
Grey to see Tyree Wilson back and good luck to the lad ?

Wonder if some of it is a case of 'bigger than the rest of his age group' kind of thing?

21 points deducted, 30 months under embargo (so far), £100k fine, unable to play good prospects, unable to retain good prospects, forced to release players...

Didn't say what? That Festy wants a football contract that runs after the end of this season? ?

Not sure why everyone's going mad at this. Surely no-one expected him to stay beyond this summer, when we're likely to be in L1? Is he not OOC in the summer? The key was keeping him for the rest of this season in our survival bid, but even if that was successful I expected him to reject a new contract while his stock is high and go somewhere better and earn more than we could offer. 

There’s a lad in the u13s showing real talent…

Yeah he’s a kid but he’s still judged on what he does once selected. Stearman was literally lunging in to try and bail him out and to save a 1 on 1 on goal. Thompson has done exactly that several times of late and teams have sussed him out a little…

Why are people focussing on Stearman and not the umpteenth time Thompson has been caught in possession in his own defensive third?

No cos he's at Stoke! 
Steargoat did his best, bit unexpected so early in.

Yeah he’s a kid but he’s still judged on what he does once selected. Stearman was literally lunging in to try and bail him out and to save a 1 on 1 on goal. Thompson has done exactly that several times of late and teams have sussed him out a little…

Why are people focussing on Stearman and not the umpteenth time Thompson has been caught in possession in his own defensive third?

Rooney was hardly unknown tbf!!

Palace have been in the PL for half of Plange's life. In that same period of time, Bielik has spent more time injured since joining us than we've been in the PL.
Palace have the 14th highest revenue in the country and have a social media following more than 3 times greater than us. They may not be historically big, but they are certainly an established PL side.