Stive Pesley

The company I work for has offices in Russia - home to 4000 employees
I say has - I mean had.
Company just withdrew and closed all its offices with immediate effect. 4000 employees out of work just like that
 

I don't think the bleeping of bad language was necessary, Whoever  could have watched that film and been shocked .. by the bad language...  is missing the point of what is truly shocking don't you think?

He looks different from his X Factor days.
 

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 
This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 
This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 
This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 
This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

Apparently already doing this with wheat(?)
So I read from Russian news. China to lift sanctions on wheat industry. 
Like Baalocks said, Putin has been in power so long that he's had many years to prepare for this. I don't see the stranglehold being all that. 
I think its more about trying to put him under pressure domestically because Russia will survive as it has had to before

Not sure how popular this opinion will be, but if anything this is a perfect case study in why no nuclear power should or would seriously consider getting rid of their nuclear weapons. If Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal then this simply wouldn't be happening. Nuclear war is the single greatest deterrent currently available to any nation on the planet. They are the reason that NATO haven't gone in and attempted to repel this invasion themselves and they are the reason that Russia will not invade any NATO country once whatever they want to achieve in Ukraine is achieved.
Nuclear weapons have done more to keep the peace since the end of WW2 than anyone or anything else. Only by totally assuring that nobody can win a war do you avoid one, as evidenced by the current situation. Putin knows the situation well and he knows exactly how far he can push before he needs to stop.
As for what happens next? My prediction is that Ukraine as we know it will be forever changed. Russia will eventually overwhelm it and install a puppet government and pretend that Ukraine is still independent but the international community will fail to recognise. Meanwhile there will be the 'true Ukraine' based out of Lviv that Russia will consider illegitimate. Almost like a China/Taiwan scenario. 
If Russia want to properly occupy Ukraine they didn't bring enough men. This is regime change.

It's probably splitting hairs, but I cant think of any western countries have gone to war recently in order to expand their territory (ie annex a neighbour)?
Now if you'd said "regime overthrow in order to install a new order that suits our interests" then no argument
We've done plenty of that
Right now though it looks more likely that Putin wants to subsume Ukraine back into Russia, rather than install a Russian-friendly regime like he has in Belarus?

To hear Putin speak he wants you to believe that he's there on the request of Donetsk and Luhansk Republics, to aid Crimea and to remove all military threats to Russia and their allies neighbours as well as remove a government that supports right wing extremists such as Azov Batallion etc.
The idea that he's there to conquer Ukraine seems to be our perspective. 
Of course Rome forged an empire by "defending" itself and its allies.... so I'm not saying anyone should have to believe him. 
But I think it's fair to draw parallels with our liberations and their invasions. 
I think if we were seeing these images but they were coming from the middle east that we'd be less caring too. But that's just my opinion. I just imagine how we feel now is how many have felt in history when facing thousands of drone strikes from a country prepared to use atomic bombs.

I think their name is short for Quantumañana.

I have been surprised at how fast things have moved. 

To that point, I'm going to step back on this thread now. I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling I'm just repeating myself and for those who want to know a bit about how we got here it's in the previous 26 pages - if you don't then ignorance is bliss and I'd suggest go listen to Liz Truss for a big dollop of that.
I'm not saying I'm quitting the thread, but I don't think I'm helping anyone too much if it's just me responding on the same points again and again. To @Davids point, sensitive times and there are likely people reading this thread who have relatives in one country or the other. Looking forward to sharing news of relief when this has all hopefully been concluded with limited further suffering. 

It's good to see a fair scattering of people trying to apply some sense from the Russian perspective. 
I think if you paint Putin as this satanic figure who's relentless drive to rebuild the Soviet Union is the reason he's killing his Slavic brothers... then what do you propose. There's no dealing with him except fight fire with fire
Trying to understand him and then there's a point of negotiation. And I think that's what's made this thread such a good civilised debate. In that those who are dead set against Putin have been willing to listen to those who (aren't with Putin) are sympathetic towards his vision for Russia and Russian people. Even if they don't agree its good that people have listened to @BaaLocks and at least thought past the "Hitler is back" angle. 
I don't know how much trouble this thread has caused the mods. I hope not too much
Because between the hysterical West media and the State line Russian media there's surely a logical right answer. And I think there are conversations being had that a realistic, logical and recognise failures on both sides to allow such a war to happen. This little corner of the Internet certainly makes more sense than Liz Truss. 

On Saturday I'm dropping off a car full of supplies to the local Ukrainian centre.
From there, a local Polish owned firm is picking up the gear and delivering it to those who've fled to Poland to shelter, all completely voluntarily. 
Most people, in most countries, and I include Russia in that, are fundamentally decent, not fundamentalists.

If anything good comes of this war, i hope that it finally bangs the heads of the world together into realising that we have far more in common than that which divides us, and to go to actual literal war over stuff is insanity
 

Who is going to break it to him about Princess Diana? ?

Here,,,, that’s my job??‍♂️

If anything good comes of this war, i hope that it finally bangs the heads of the world together into realising that we have far more in common than that which divides us, and to go to actual literal war over stuff is insanity
 

Well fair play to the mods, as they must have dealt with stuff quickly and efficiently, as I've not witnessed any posts out of order on those grounds. Everyone currently contributing has been respectful and sensitive to the situation as far as I can see - so the rules seem to be working?
 
 
 

Yep deaf dumb and blind to the faults in our own societies and call for decency and behaviour from others we don’t practise ourselves,
you look at this newest war and stuff like covid in how quick we are to divide and pour vitriol on others and wonder if we have moved that far from the dark ages after all ??‍♂️,
we could really do with some of our leaders and governments being more interested in finding a way to stop the bloodshed rather than tub thumping on one side or the other

A member of my team is Lithuanian (was part of the old USSR) and has family and friends there and in Russia too.  She's not happy and everyone she knows, here and back "home" is wholly against the invasion and is ashamed of what is happening.  One of the companies we work with have their development team in Minsk.  They too are struggling to understand what's happening and don't accept it.  It must be difficult for the majority of  Russian / Belarusian people who really are at the mercy of their leaders.

Indeed, it's just another layer to it I am afraid. Documentary the other year showed Indian families getting beaten up at Shaktar Donetsk just for being at the game.
Racism is years, nay decades, behind where it is here across most of Central and Eastern Europe and, according to what we saw last night, even when they get to Poland (Ukranian border police are operating a 'ten Ukranians for every 'obvious foreigner'' policy) they are getting chased in the streets by Polish far right thugs who are leaping at the chance of a bit of 'sport'. 
Humans are, in the main, pretty flippin' horrible.

Well fair play to the mods, as they must have dealt with stuff quickly and efficiently, as I've not witnessed any posts out of order on those grounds. Everyone currently contributing has been respectful and sensitive to the situation as far as I can see - so the rules seem to be working?