Asanovic70

Last September I was playing football with my grandson,and hurt my knee. I didn’t bother the doctors because the knee gradually returned to near normal, but still quite painful at times. It was such a time I winced, and my wife “advised “ me to see the doctor,which I duly attended, knee examination, all OK, I asked for a PSA (having seen the information at Pride Park) check which he duly gave me the paperwork. The test came back 7.1, I’m over 70 so 6.5 is regarded as normal. I was dispatched to the Derby Royal, had the anal examination, ( for the first time) small lump found. In five weeks I’ve had a MRI scan,my prostrate biopsy done, and a QT scan,and I’m now on a hormone treatment plan. It appears they’ve caught the tumour early, and the prognosis is good, they say it will be eliminated. You do lose your dignity at times, but not going through that door and having the exam you could lose a lot more.
A shout out to the doctors and nurses at the Derby Royal, they have been absolutely terrific, informative, and very understanding, and caring.
 

Derby County v  Shrewsbury Town
 
5pts
NONE
3pts
Jimbo Ram    17
Ramant62    18
 
2pts
NONE
1pt
Amberram    24
Asanovic70    26
BodminRam    32
Jase116    28
Premier ram    26
r4derby    28
REDCAR    26
Rich84    17
Topram    23
Van der MoodHoover    19
Wolfie20    44
 
 
Derby County 2  Shrewsbury Town 2, Roberts = FRGS.
 

Thought this was gonna be a thread about what it's like to support Derby.

No, I don't agree, I don't call spending £180m+ exploiting an opportunity to finish bottom six and have the worse goal return in away games in all four divisions. We didn't buy experienced PL players, Forest have done this including players from Euro leagues. These players cost in terms of wages etc.  I'm not sure it's right to be so dismissive of us in the PL in comparison to Forest, who have eclipsed the spending of Villa & Fulham as promoted clubs in recent seasons, both spending £100m+ .
Billy Davies demanded we spent the £60m we were going to get for being in the PL, half of it going to pay historic debts. So past baggage held us back. There's an argument that he should have received more backing but his signings were poor or underperformed and he was asking the club to mortgage itself - which is what eventually happened under Mel Morris.
I'd argue that we went from 20th & a flirtation with a relegation battle to promotion with little in-between. It was a memorable season, but the new owners flashed the cash at Billy Davies who was ambitious and left Preston to join a club with more resources. Unfortunately, these weren't forthcoming for the PL season. The situation in 2006 has vague echoes of now in that the club was emerging from a chaotic ownership & the ABC loan (crippling interest). There's a view that we should have taken the sort of approach we are doing now in rebuilding the club over the long-term.
I agree nobody turns down a promotion if it happens, but we are still being held back still by restrictions. There isn't anything wrong in building a platform or keep doing the right things - build an infrastructure, appoint the right people - because eventually a promotion will happen, as did for the likes of Brentford in the division above etc. We are too big a side to stay in L1 forever, that is the simple fact.
FWIW, I think we have an intelligent owner, who shocked us with the decision to replace Rosenior but which looks a decision that will benefit both parties. The sort of owner we have been probably desperate/crying out for in decades. 

No, I don't agree, I don't call spending £180m+ exploiting an opportunity to finish bottom six and have the worse goal return in away games in all four divisions. We didn't buy experienced PL players, Forest have done this including players from Euro leagues. These players cost in terms of wages etc.  I'm not sure it's right to be so dismissive of us in the PL in comparison to Forest, who have eclipsed the spending of Villa & Fulham as promoted clubs in recent seasons, both spending £100m+ .
Billy Davies demanded we spent the £60m we were going to get for being in the PL, half of it going to pay historic debts. So past baggage held us back. There's an argument that he should have received more backing but his signings were poor or underperformed and he was asking the club to mortgage itself - which is what eventually happened under Mel Morris.
I'd argue that we went from 20th & a flirtation with a relegation battle to promotion with little in-between. It was a memorable season, but the new owners flashed the cash at Billy Davies who was ambitious and left Preston to join a club with more resources. Unfortunately, these weren't forthcoming for the PL season. The situation in 2006 has vague echoes of now in that the club was emerging from a chaotic ownership & the ABC loan (crippling interest). There's a view that we should have taken the sort of approach we are doing now in rebuilding the club over the long-term.
I agree nobody turns down a promotion if it happens, but we are still being held back still by restrictions. There isn't anything wrong in building a platform or keep doing the right things - build an infrastructure, appoint the right people - because eventually a promotion will happen, as did for the likes of Brentford in the division above etc. We are too big a side to stay in L1 forever, that is the simple fact.
FWIW, I think we have an intelligent owner, who shocked us with the decision to replace Rosenior but which looks a decision that will benefit both parties. The sort of owner we have been probably desperate/crying out for in decades. 

Terrific post (all of it, not just the bit quoted) ?
 
 

No, I don't agree, I don't call spending £180m+ exploiting an opportunity to finish bottom six and have the worse goal return in away games in all four divisions. We didn't buy experienced PL players, Forest have done this including players from Euro leagues. These players cost in terms of wages etc.  I'm not sure it's right to be so dismissive of us in the PL in comparison to Forest, who have eclipsed the spending of Villa & Fulham as promoted clubs in recent seasons, both spending £100m+ .
Billy Davies demanded we spent the £60m we were going to get for being in the PL, half of it going to pay historic debts. So past baggage held us back. There's an argument that he should have received more backing but his signings were poor or underperformed and he was asking the club to mortgage itself - which is what eventually happened under Mel Morris.
I'd argue that we went from 20th & a flirtation with a relegation battle to promotion with little in-between. It was a memorable season, but the new owners flashed the cash at Billy Davies who was ambitious and left Preston to join a club with more resources. Unfortunately, these weren't forthcoming for the PL season. The situation in 2006 has vague echoes of now in that the club was emerging from a chaotic ownership & the ABC loan (crippling interest). There's a view that we should have taken the sort of approach we are doing now in rebuilding the club over the long-term.
I agree nobody turns down a promotion if it happens, but we are still being held back still by restrictions. There isn't anything wrong in building a platform or keep doing the right things - build an infrastructure, appoint the right people - because eventually a promotion will happen, as did for the likes of Brentford in the division above etc. We are too big a side to stay in L1 forever, that is the simple fact.
FWIW, I think we have an intelligent owner, who shocked us with the decision to replace Rosenior but which looks a decision that will benefit both parties. The sort of owner we have been probably desperate/crying out for in decades. 

The long term plan must be to reach a place of financial means once again.
That in mind, if its not this season or next season I'm OK with that.
I don't see us outside of the play offs this season or next, im ok with that.
Three years from now is another story, we will be outside the efl punishment zone.
We will reach a point in time when Derby can spend a transfer budget, as one of the teams with a top 3 attendance in the league, we will be able to spend a decent amount on transfers.
We will no longer be reliant on free agents but can then bring in quality to win promotion.
If the teams not strong enough yet to get automatic promotion, I don't want to be promoted and be everybody's punching bag in the Championship.
I'm looking forward to the day when we can add quality signings to the team and then that season, we are getting promoted.
I accept that might not be this season or even next season, but a club of derbys size is definitely not staying in League one.
It took Leeds 3 years to escape league one, then they went to the championship, then to the Premier league.

There's no doubt Cooper's done a good job, but look at the tools he's been given, experienced players, some with PL experience, others from top clubs in Europe, & elite clubs at that. Most PL sides outside the elite would sign Navas if given the chance. And this was after Forest signed Henderson from Man United!
It's not the same as Brentford or Brighton buying unknowns & developing them (Toney). Contast Forest with Swansea who signed players from the lesser lights of La Liga like Michu from Rayo Vallecano.
£180m +. I think Dane Murphy has been sidelined, & has actually left. This was the man who made the astute signings (loans) last season & also did an impressive job at Barnsley. It'd be interesting to hear his take on what has happened. Apparently, his statement did not mention Giraldi, the Sporting Director, brought in by Forest. It reminds of the power struggle between Nigel Clough & Sam Rush. Yes, Clough's position often came into question, it wasn't just results which determined his fate but ultimately who had the final say over signings. It's clear now that our transfer policy after Clough was haphazard.
I genuinely think Forest's approach is unsustainable. I find it of interest because of the parallels to us. OK, I accept the argument that they will receive much greater tv revenue, but if the PL largesse is so great, why do the likes of Bolton, Cardiff etc, end up in financial trouble? Surely, the argument is that the PL sets clubs up for life, making them solvent. Or does it? Why is it necessary then that at least 12 clubs, perhaps 13,  are now owned by billionaires? Tony Bloom only has a fortune of £800m. Only £800m!
The PL largesse often goes out in wages & fees, and as said, contrast the young players who got Forest up with the players they have signed now who have no re-sale value. It's more than likely that Forest would have got relegated with these younger stars, but these players would have remained assets, and Forest may have become a yo-yo club. If I was a Forest fan, I may have criticised the lack of ambition but welcomed we weren't mortgaging ourselves (ditto Norwich).
As for Murphy, he may have the last laugh. Who is to say, he may not have advocated the approach now taken? After what happened to us, I'm glad to have Mark Thomas on board as well as Mr Clowes who is fast becoming one of the best owners we could have ever hoped for after Kirchner's arrest. Football's a funny old game, in about five years,  maybe less, Forest & us will be in the same division but we will be the more solvent club. It happened when we were in the PL & they were in League 1. They returned to the Championship with some erratic results but were better run than us.
That side eventually got ripped up by Billy Davies & ended up with Doughty being forced to put his beloved club up for sale with huge debts.

There's no doubt Cooper's done a good job, but look at the tools he's been given, experienced players, some with PL experience, others from top clubs in Europe, & elite clubs at that. Most PL sides outside the elite would sign Navas if given the chance. And this was after Forest signed Henderson from Man United!
It's not the same as Brentford or Brighton buying unknowns & developing them (Toney). Contast Forest with Swansea who signed players from the lesser lights of La Liga like Michu from Rayo Vallecano.
£180m +. I think Dane Murphy has been sidelined, & has actually left. This was the man who made the astute signings (loans) last season & also did an impressive job at Barnsley. It'd be interesting to hear his take on what has happened. Apparently, his statement did not mention Giraldi, the Sporting Director, brought in by Forest. It reminds of the power struggle between Nigel Clough & Sam Rush. Yes, Clough's position often came into question, it wasn't just results which determined his fate but ultimately who had the final say over signings. It's clear now that our transfer policy after Clough was haphazard.
I genuinely think Forest's approach is unsustainable. I find it of interest because of the parallels to us. OK, I accept the argument that they will receive much greater tv revenue, but if the PL largesse is so great, why do the likes of Bolton, Cardiff etc, end up in financial trouble? Surely, the argument is that the PL sets clubs up for life, making them solvent. Or does it? Why is it necessary then that at least 12 clubs, perhaps 13,  are now owned by billionaires? Tony Bloom only has a fortune of £800m. Only £800m!
The PL largesse often goes out in wages & fees, and as said, contrast the young players who got Forest up with the players they have signed now who have no re-sale value. It's more than likely that Forest would have got relegated with these younger stars, but these players would have remained assets, and Forest may have become a yo-yo club. If I was a Forest fan, I may have criticised the lack of ambition but welcomed we weren't mortgaging ourselves (ditto Norwich).
As for Murphy, he may have the last laugh. Who is to say, he may not have advocated the approach now taken? After what happened to us, I'm glad to have Mark Thomas on board as well as Mr Clowes who is fast becoming one of the best owners we could have ever hoped for after Kirchner's arrest. Football's a funny old game, in about five years,  maybe less, Forest & us will be in the same division but we will be the more solvent club. It happened when we were in the PL & they were in League 1. They returned to the Championship with some erratic results but were better run than us.
That side eventually got ripped up by Billy Davies & ended up with Doughty being forced to put his beloved club up for sale with huge debts.

Oh come on, Asa.  Poor players they may be, but lets not resort to personal insults, eh?   You're better than that.
 
... Anyway, I'll go and finish the rest of your post now... 

There's a difference between doing a "good job" (which he is) and being worthy of "Manager of the Year" awards (that's where this discussion started, remember) when you've been handed 30 new players at a cost of something in the order of £180-200M though, don't you think?
And "mid-table"?? They're 4 points above the drop - I doubt he'll be grateful for all of the premature garlands he's curiously getting on here when they could be in the bottom 3 by Easter.

Has Mrs. Ince left for Reading then?

Previously we've needed to sell 1 or 2 every summer to basically fund the club.
Playing at a ground we don't own, paying an extortionate rent and service fee to an ex Chairman being the underlying reason.
 
Recent takeover (rich Asians including ex Inter Milan chairman) has made us pretty wealthy for our size, which has influenced the types of signings made, with less of the younger talent being recruited and as I mentioned previously may have had some influence on Thomas' decision to move on.

Only if aimed at the EFL.

A local Councillor you say! 
Are you sure he wasn't swearing at you?

Approach him and ask him nicely to keep the language clean as there are lots of kids around.
If he doesn't, tell him to eff off somewhere else the cnut. 

I didn't know that, it's only fair & reasonable that he'd stick up for his brother. As for an apology, I'm sure he & his brother must have shared a wry smile as things imploded under Morris and said, 'See? I told you so.'
I would say though that Paul Clement's career as a manager has disappointed. He came across as a gentleman. Of course, it was disappointing that things didn't work out. He can certainly feel a bit aggrieved at getting sacked with the club sitting 4th in the table. Most clubs sack a manager when they are 4th from bottom.
 

Wycombe  v Derby County
 
5pts
NONE

3pts
Topram    18
 
2pts
AndyB    46
archram    320
BathRam72    27
dabber    32
DCFC4LIFE    26
dcfc the 1 4me    27
Elgin_Ram    20
Foreveram    25
harwich ram    26
HedgeEnder    37
jono    24
Kenavo    29
leroyoftherovers    39
Miggins    30
Osbaldwick    21
Premier ram    21
1967Ram    13
richinspain    16
Rich84    14
rynny    35
sheeponacid    31
StrawHillRam    22
TimRam    30
WharfedaleRam    28
Wolfie20    38
Yani P    24
 
1pt
Amberram    19
Andrew1    7
Asanovic70    21
CBRammette    11
ColonelBlimp    30
gccrowdpleaser    19
Jimbo Ram    12
LeedsCityRam    33
PendineRam    18
 
Wycombe 3 Derby County 2, Collins = FRGS.
 

This is why I liked Nigel Clough despite whatever criticism (legitimate or not) he receives on here. He came in & rebooted the Academy at a time when we had so few prospects emerging and that took a few years.  He often would ask a player to fill in at another position (make an attacker deputize at full back) as part of their football education so that they gained an understanding of that role, and it might make them realize their overall responsibility to the team & how they often dovetail together since football is also about units and partnerships.
Lionel Pickering (2003), at the opening of Moor Farm, famously envisaged it as producing a steady stream of Academy graduates into the first team ( a team built on them).
I think we are beginning to see that fruition, but it has often come against a chaotic background of two takeovers (2008) & (2022), perhaps a turnover  of staff, so you wonder how much this has impacted upon it. I do think though, we now have an owner (& manager, as well as any future management) who will buy into it as a resource.

I thought Burley in particular brought in some useful experienced players coming towards the end of their careers, like Paul Peschisolido & Jeff Kenna, Marc Edworthy as well. The last two were well into their thirties. When you sign such players, the cynic in you thinks 'Are we that desperate?', and yet they disprove that cynicism through their & leadership & professionalism.
Agree about Rob Lee & Gordon Cowans.
 

I don't know really (Forest's survival), part of me cares as it's our arch rival, the other couldn't care less except, repeating myself, they cannot keep spending sums like this as it is unsustainable. FWIW, I think they'll survive: Bournemouth are out of their depth, Southampton have had too much upheaval. I think Leeds have gone on the sort of run that is ominous, 2W in 17. They were lucky to survive last season. 
The Championship is full of ex-PL clubs who had (lengthy) spells in the PL but are now struggling with finances etc, such as Birmingham, Cardiff. Stoke are backed by the Coates family & look where they are. 
On 5live (Sunday), there was a euphoric Forest fan on the phone-in. He took issue with the criticism that they are buying 'PL survival', comparing it to Chelsea, who spent a similar amount on just a couple of players. To paraphrase, he remarked 'We've only spent £186m on 30 players.' Only £186m! He did make the good point, however, that they do have some younger talent: Gibbs-White, Williams, Johnson.
I used to like Alan Biggs, still think he is a good reporter, but couldn't believe how he admired Forest for setting their stall on PL survival after they signed Lingard (twitter).
 Forest have a 30k stadium, (limited revenue). OK, they will receive a lot of money through tv revenue. While they do have the above players as potential assets, they have spent heavily in contrast to the likes of Brighton & Brentford, both recently promoted in the last five years, but who operate under a completely different strategy,  with owners who are involved in the betting/data industry (Bloom & Benham) and use that methodology with how their operate especially in buying talent (low) and selling high.
Interestingly, Chelsea now remind me of the customers, in the Harry Enfield sketch (I Saw You Coming) who used to buy any old tat for a ridiculous price. Only it's young tat that's ridiculously priced on 7 year contracts.
It's a Smashie smash-up of Julio Geordio & I Saw You Coming.

Yes, I agree. We've always undersold our best talent. One thing I'd say about the Forest Academy is that they always nurtured it even in bad times and fallen upon it as a back-up resource (Swansea in recent seasons). We may laugh at them, but Mark Warburton's tenure (FFP/embargo, al-Hasawi) saw several young players promoted to the first team, including Matty Cash.
Let's be honest, Forest have regularly sold Academy/home-grown prospects for eight figures. 
I think we are going to value our players more under own new owner & be less easy to exploit after what happened to us because we are going to have to be a club who has to generate its own income than rely on a benefactor who may then walk away.

It's ironic that their representative on here demands apologies for the abuse he apparently got for warning us about DCFC's spending under Mel, yet any comment about their own much heavier (and often random) spending, and the man that is presumably funding much of it at the moment, is met with angry denial and  accusations of 'envy'. 
They just need to follow their own advice and question how sustainable it is if Stavros goes 'pop'.
 

This is why I liked Nigel Clough despite whatever criticism (legitimate or not) he receives on here. He came in & rebooted the Academy at a time when we had so few prospects emerging and that took a few years.  He often would ask a player to fill in at another position (make an attacker deputize at full back) as part of their football education so that they gained an understanding of that role, and it might make them realize their overall responsibility to the team & how they often dovetail together since football is also about units and partnerships.
Lionel Pickering (2003), at the opening of Moor Farm, famously envisaged it as producing a steady stream of Academy graduates into the first team ( a team built on them).
I think we are beginning to see that fruition, but it has often come against a chaotic background of two takeovers (2008) & (2022), perhaps a turnover  of staff, so you wonder how much this has impacted upon it. I do think though, we now have an owner (& manager, as well as any future management) who will buy into it as a resource.