San Fran Van Rams

I haven't read the latest in this thread as frankly I don't have the time or inclination. The whole process has been an absolute farce - a witch hunt against an owner; a wider agenda in an attempt to force change up the pyramid; and a corrupt system which bows to those who shout the loudest.
The biggest issue in those whole debacle is that there is an assumption that the LAP made the correct decision about our amortization policy's non-compliance with FRS102. My understanding is that even though the original DC (which included the relevant experts) found the policy to be in compliance (apart from poor disclosure), the LAP then decided to uphold the original particulars even though the LAP had no accounting expertise on it. 
The second biggest issue is that EFL have used the club's financial plight to have it agree to the punishment. The EFL knew full well that we were unable to let the sanctions/appeals decision slip given the existing funding and limited cashflow and the inability to sell the club without that decision agreed upon. The EFL forced us to agree to the decision or face liquidation. To me, this is forcing a false confession and is completely unjust and unfair. 
The third biggest issue is that we have been repeatedly punished for the same perceived mis-demeanor which I'm still yet to see full evidence that we're guilt of - non-compliance with FRS 102. Putting the compliance matter to one side, we've been punished through a strict transfer embargo, an inability to utilize a league wide loan and now a points deduction. The overall points deduction is also a repeated sanction for the same alleged crime given we would have changed our approach and our decisions if we were to know we couldn't use it. (To note, indirectly we've also been punished with administration as the whole EFL debacle forced buyers to pull out a potential acquisition that would have prevented this from happening).
Finally, the fourth biggest issue is that throughout this whole process, Derby's name has been dragged through the mud. Whether its from the EFLs shockingly worded statements, leaks to the national press, or miss/over simplified reporting by the press, Derby County is now a dirty word amongst many a fan - I do not care that we are not liked. I care that we are not liked because of false accusations and an agenda from our governing body which is meant to protect our club and the game we love.
As I've said before, I do not admonish MM of any responsibility. His financial mis-management of Derby is shocking and he should be condemned as one of, if not the, worst owners in our history and the fact he decided to walked away from the steaming pile of poo he created says a lot about the man.
The EFL, however, has done nothing but further punish and cripple the club and is as worthy of as much criticism as our esteemed previous owner. It is an unfit and unjust governance body that needs dismantling and building from the floor up again. 

We could start a new company, call it Fukda, and sponsor the shirt sleeve just above the EFL badge.

Instead of the teams on the scoreboard have it up there too.... change name to eff the EFL stadium for the rest of the season. 

I haven't read the latest in this thread as frankly I don't have the time or inclination. The whole process has been an absolute farce - a witch hunt against an owner; a wider agenda in an attempt to force change up the pyramid; and a corrupt system which bows to those who shout the loudest.
The biggest issue in those whole debacle is that there is an assumption that the LAP made the correct decision about our amortization policy's non-compliance with FRS102. My understanding is that even though the original DC (which included the relevant experts) found the policy to be in compliance (apart from poor disclosure), the LAP then decided to uphold the original particulars even though the LAP had no accounting expertise on it. 
The second biggest issue is that EFL have used the club's financial plight to have it agree to the punishment. The EFL knew full well that we were unable to let the sanctions/appeals decision slip given the existing funding and limited cashflow and the inability to sell the club without that decision agreed upon. The EFL forced us to agree to the decision or face liquidation. To me, this is forcing a false confession and is completely unjust and unfair. 
The third biggest issue is that we have been repeatedly punished for the same perceived mis-demeanor which I'm still yet to see full evidence that we're guilt of - non-compliance with FRS 102. Putting the compliance matter to one side, we've been punished through a strict transfer embargo, an inability to utilize a league wide loan and now a points deduction. The overall points deduction is also a repeated sanction for the same alleged crime given we would have changed our approach and our decisions if we were to know we couldn't use it. (To note, indirectly we've also been punished with administration as the whole EFL debacle forced buyers to pull out a potential acquisition that would have prevented this from happening).
Finally, the fourth biggest issue is that throughout this whole process, Derby's name has been dragged through the mud. Whether its from the EFLs shockingly worded statements, leaks to the national press, or miss/over simplified reporting by the press, Derby County is now a dirty word amongst many a fan - I do not care that we are not liked. I care that we are not liked because of false accusations and an agenda from our governing body which is meant to protect our club and the game we love.
As I've said before, I do not admonish MM of any responsibility. His financial mis-management of Derby is shocking and he should be condemned as one of, if not the, worst owners in our history and the fact he decided to walked away from the steaming pile of poo he created says a lot about the man.
The EFL, however, has done nothing but further punish and cripple the club and is as worthy of as much criticism as our esteemed previous owner. It is an unfit and unjust governance body that needs dismantling and building from the floor up again. 

I haven't read the latest in this thread as frankly I don't have the time or inclination. The whole process has been an absolute farce - a witch hunt against an owner; a wider agenda in an attempt to force change up the pyramid; and a corrupt system which bows to those who shout the loudest.
The biggest issue in those whole debacle is that there is an assumption that the LAP made the correct decision about our amortization policy's non-compliance with FRS102. My understanding is that even though the original DC (which included the relevant experts) found the policy to be in compliance (apart from poor disclosure), the LAP then decided to uphold the original particulars even though the LAP had no accounting expertise on it. 
The second biggest issue is that EFL have used the club's financial plight to have it agree to the punishment. The EFL knew full well that we were unable to let the sanctions/appeals decision slip given the existing funding and limited cashflow and the inability to sell the club without that decision agreed upon. The EFL forced us to agree to the decision or face liquidation. To me, this is forcing a false confession and is completely unjust and unfair. 
The third biggest issue is that we have been repeatedly punished for the same perceived mis-demeanor which I'm still yet to see full evidence that we're guilt of - non-compliance with FRS 102. Putting the compliance matter to one side, we've been punished through a strict transfer embargo, an inability to utilize a league wide loan and now a points deduction. The overall points deduction is also a repeated sanction for the same alleged crime given we would have changed our approach and our decisions if we were to know we couldn't use it. (To note, indirectly we've also been punished with administration as the whole EFL debacle forced buyers to pull out a potential acquisition that would have prevented this from happening).
Finally, the fourth biggest issue is that throughout this whole process, Derby's name has been dragged through the mud. Whether its from the EFLs shockingly worded statements, leaks to the national press, or miss/over simplified reporting by the press, Derby County is now a dirty word amongst many a fan - I do not care that we are not liked. I care that we are not liked because of false accusations and an agenda from our governing body which is meant to protect our club and the game we love.
As I've said before, I do not admonish MM of any responsibility. His financial mis-management of Derby is shocking and he should be condemned as one of, if not the, worst owners in our history and the fact he decided to walked away from the steaming pile of poo he created says a lot about the man.
The EFL, however, has done nothing but further punish and cripple the club and is as worthy of as much criticism as our esteemed previous owner. It is an unfit and unjust governance body that needs dismantling and building from the floor up again. 

I haven't read the latest in this thread as frankly I don't have the time or inclination. The whole process has been an absolute farce - a witch hunt against an owner; a wider agenda in an attempt to force change up the pyramid; and a corrupt system which bows to those who shout the loudest.
The biggest issue in those whole debacle is that there is an assumption that the LAP made the correct decision about our amortization policy's non-compliance with FRS102. My understanding is that even though the original DC (which included the relevant experts) found the policy to be in compliance (apart from poor disclosure), the LAP then decided to uphold the original particulars even though the LAP had no accounting expertise on it. 
The second biggest issue is that EFL have used the club's financial plight to have it agree to the punishment. The EFL knew full well that we were unable to let the sanctions/appeals decision slip given the existing funding and limited cashflow and the inability to sell the club without that decision agreed upon. The EFL forced us to agree to the decision or face liquidation. To me, this is forcing a false confession and is completely unjust and unfair. 
The third biggest issue is that we have been repeatedly punished for the same perceived mis-demeanor which I'm still yet to see full evidence that we're guilt of - non-compliance with FRS 102. Putting the compliance matter to one side, we've been punished through a strict transfer embargo, an inability to utilize a league wide loan and now a points deduction. The overall points deduction is also a repeated sanction for the same alleged crime given we would have changed our approach and our decisions if we were to know we couldn't use it. (To note, indirectly we've also been punished with administration as the whole EFL debacle forced buyers to pull out a potential acquisition that would have prevented this from happening).
Finally, the fourth biggest issue is that throughout this whole process, Derby's name has been dragged through the mud. Whether its from the EFLs shockingly worded statements, leaks to the national press, or miss/over simplified reporting by the press, Derby County is now a dirty word amongst many a fan - I do not care that we are not liked. I care that we are not liked because of false accusations and an agenda from our governing body which is meant to protect our club and the game we love.
As I've said before, I do not admonish MM of any responsibility. His financial mis-management of Derby is shocking and he should be condemned as one of, if not the, worst owners in our history and the fact he decided to walked away from the steaming pile of poo he created says a lot about the man.
The EFL, however, has done nothing but further punish and cripple the club and is as worthy of as much criticism as our esteemed previous owner. It is an unfit and unjust governance body that needs dismantling and building from the floor up again. 

I should also say - as someone who has been pretty vocal in attributing a fair bit of blame to our previous owners - I don't think the EFL has covered itself in glory. The whole system stinks: football basically doesn't work, financially, outside the Premiership. There's a complete disconnect between the Prem and the rest of football. And rather than any kind of benevolent independent oversight the whole thing seems to be run on the basis of 'Yeah we all know it doesn't really work, but just don't take the **** and we will pretend it's all fine and functional'. At best the EFL is curbing the worst excesses while turning a blind eye to the underlying issues. We messed up, I can't really defend the way we were run - but it's not like we were one bad apple in an otherwise perfectly healthy batch. 

I afraid however much we feel hard done too,  that we being singled out to be made an example of, we are where are and nothing is going to change.
It is how we learn and move on from this is the Most important thing. 
Remember, we have been here before and risen up to the promised land and we will again with :
1. Good governance
2. Sound management both on and off the pitch.
3. Maintenance of our fantastic fanbase.
4. The skill,dedication and fortitude of our lads who wear the black and white with pride.
No but no can keep this GREAT club down.
We WILL get back to where we rightfully belong amongst the elite 
So chin up lads, this not the end but the beginning of a glorious NEW dawn.
UP THE MIGHT RAMS 
 

When The Rams Trust next meer with the EFL, the first thing they should be doing is asking for a full transcript of all discussions that took place with the administrators. 
Basically, we've had two parties who do not have the clubs best interests in mind agree on a punishment for us.

This is the exact reason I am still so angry about this whole debacle.  We were guilty of poor communication and fined £100K.  We still didn't break the law. Bent the EFL's rules maybe, but that's it.  We didn't hide it.  We didn't try and cover it up.  We didn't do anything illegal.  Being forced to re-do accounts based of how the EFL wanted it applied (contrary to usual industry practices), we're found to be what? £4m over?  The punishment applied to us for the past 2 years, (courtesy of THEIR delays, change of approach, changes of mind, incompetence, call it what you will), plus the 12 points for Admin far exceeds the perceived crime already.  We couldn't take the loan, which may have stopped Admin, because they had put us in a position such we wouldn't qualify. And to now apply another 9 points, for barely £4m is incredible.....a discrepancy only created because the EFL having previously accepted our accounts for nigh on 4 years changed their minds as a result of a certain person pointing the anomaly out to them.   How does that equate to Reading's breach, over 10x ours, but receiving the same penalty.  Plus of course 3 suspended due to late wages (yeah, Mel should have paid).  I honestly truly don't get it.  
I do get the Administrators wanting to just lie down and accept it all, so we can get a clean slate and move on, but I really hate the fact we have (IMO of course) been unjustly treated and have just accepted it whilst the EFL get away with everything.  Maybe I'm just too principled.   

Why look at it from other clubs perspective? They are most likely only going off the same click bait stories as the fans of other clubs.
Was Paul Warne on the IDC listening to all of the facts and evidence? No, so his opinion is worth nothing more than mine or yours.
How about looking at it from our clubs perspective, we've been found guilty of nothing other than incorrect wording in our accounts, yet 20 months on, have been under constant embargo, denied access to a loan that all other clubs were given and basically been bullied into trying to help the EFL save face. 
MM shoulders the responsibility for our financial position but everything else that has gone with it is as a result of our regulator being completely inept.
 

Our pr has been appalling throughout this whole business and we've let the EFL completely dictate the narrative. 
I can't for the life of me work out what the EFL is for.... 
- it doesn't write good, clear rules
- it doesn't police its rules effectively and reasonably 
- it doesn't negotiate good deals on behalf of its members 
- it doesn't prevent bad things happening to clubs
- it doesn't appear unbiased and puts out shockingly worded and insinuating statements 
It's disgraceful really. It seems to be nothing more than a clique of has-beens in thrall to vested lobby groups. 
The fact that we were represented in one of these and completely failed to move the agenda to our advantage is merely the latest example of rubbish performance by our people. No surprise there then.... ?

This stinks of EFL desire to see us punished (relegated or out of existance), one way or the other.
The administrators noted a month or so back (think it was on TalkSport) that they were expecting the EFL discussions to have a conclusion within 3 weeks to allow for a purchase to take place thereafter, and likely concluding in the 1st week of Jan. My guess is that we need it to go through then given cashflow constraints and current runway running out early in 2022. From memory, the administrators have never confirmed they have funding for the season but were confident we'd complete it (indicating my point). 
A purchase will not go through until the points deduction is agreed. We cannot afford for the points deduction decision to slip any further. The EFL, by adjourning our case, have backed us into a corner as we cannot viably continue post January and hence need to accept whatever punishment they throw at us. I.e. the 21 points, full book punishment. 
This is ludicrous, outrageous and unethical behaviour by the EFL. Although what did we expect. Again, not admonishing MM of any blame, but this smacks of a political agenda and DCFC being made an example of.
(Caveat that the above is based on Nixon's article being true)

This stinks of EFL desire to see us punished (relegated or out of existance), one way or the other.
The administrators noted a month or so back (think it was on TalkSport) that they were expecting the EFL discussions to have a conclusion within 3 weeks to allow for a purchase to take place thereafter, and likely concluding in the 1st week of Jan. My guess is that we need it to go through then given cashflow constraints and current runway running out early in 2022. From memory, the administrators have never confirmed they have funding for the season but were confident we'd complete it (indicating my point). 
A purchase will not go through until the points deduction is agreed. We cannot afford for the points deduction decision to slip any further. The EFL, by adjourning our case, have backed us into a corner as we cannot viably continue post January and hence need to accept whatever punishment they throw at us. I.e. the 21 points, full book punishment. 
This is ludicrous, outrageous and unethical behaviour by the EFL. Although what did we expect. Again, not admonishing MM of any blame, but this smacks of a political agenda and DCFC being made an example of.
(Caveat that the above is based on Nixon's article being true)

This stinks of EFL desire to see us punished (relegated or out of existance), one way or the other.
The administrators noted a month or so back (think it was on TalkSport) that they were expecting the EFL discussions to have a conclusion within 3 weeks to allow for a purchase to take place thereafter, and likely concluding in the 1st week of Jan. My guess is that we need it to go through then given cashflow constraints and current runway running out early in 2022. From memory, the administrators have never confirmed they have funding for the season but were confident we'd complete it (indicating my point). 
A purchase will not go through until the points deduction is agreed. We cannot afford for the points deduction decision to slip any further. The EFL, by adjourning our case, have backed us into a corner as we cannot viably continue post January and hence need to accept whatever punishment they throw at us. I.e. the 21 points, full book punishment. 
This is ludicrous, outrageous and unethical behaviour by the EFL. Although what did we expect. Again, not admonishing MM of any blame, but this smacks of a political agenda and DCFC being made an example of.
(Caveat that the above is based on Nixon's article being true)

This stinks of EFL desire to see us punished (relegated or out of existance), one way or the other.
The administrators noted a month or so back (think it was on TalkSport) that they were expecting the EFL discussions to have a conclusion within 3 weeks to allow for a purchase to take place thereafter, and likely concluding in the 1st week of Jan. My guess is that we need it to go through then given cashflow constraints and current runway running out early in 2022. From memory, the administrators have never confirmed they have funding for the season but were confident we'd complete it (indicating my point). 
A purchase will not go through until the points deduction is agreed. We cannot afford for the points deduction decision to slip any further. The EFL, by adjourning our case, have backed us into a corner as we cannot viably continue post January and hence need to accept whatever punishment they throw at us. I.e. the 21 points, full book punishment. 
This is ludicrous, outrageous and unethical behaviour by the EFL. Although what did we expect. Again, not admonishing MM of any blame, but this smacks of a political agenda and DCFC being made an example of.
(Caveat that the above is based on Nixon's article being true)

Does this mean refs will be allowed to give us penalties now? 

Division 3. As in the third tier. As in league 1?

Wonder if we went  legal this would have dragged on for months and one or more of the bidders said just get it done to move on and stop EFL continually stalling things ? Plus if it went on too long Admin would run out of dosh. Check mate from EFL without having to prove what they have done is correct or not ? 

Ah yes. You may be right. Mel may have sent revised accounts to the efl. The point that is true is that we no longer have any obligation to file accounts with companies house. Whether there is any loophole we could exploit around the accounts not being submitted to companies house and therefore the accounts we have submitted to the efl is no longer valid according to league rules I don’t know. But I suspect this would be a weak argument in a court of law and perhaps therefore it’s wishful thinking to be trying to wipe off or reduce those points. 
in conclusion perhaps those points - whatever they may are - might be ones we have to suffer. But the positive is that these still aren’t agreed and I believe could still be open to negotiation.

Yes, the clubs agree to the rules and vote in/agree to changes to the rules; that always has been and always will be the case. When there's no realistic alternative though it's a bit of a sham.
The EFL dictate whether you're allowed to play in their league. You could up sticks and apply to play elsewhere, but where? Shall we join ask to join the Welsh or Irish leagues? Start up our own league system?
Football clubs don't tend to have a collective conscience (albeit they often pretend to, they never do when it matters), they're in it for themselves, they're in competition with each other not in collusion; anyone who challenges the status quo is going to find themselves very much isolated with at best a handful of clubs willing to back them up.
Do we need look any further than our own doorstep for proof of what happens to clubs who challenge the rules? We've got head honcho of the EFL telling us all of the ways in which the system is broken while at the same time  slapping us down for pointing it out years ago, and for trying to work a way around it!

Driving bans are a matter of criminal law. It makes sense that a failed appeal could see the sanctions increased because in appealing you're taking up both time and money of the courts. They have a duty to look after the interests of the public as a whole.
The example of a multinational company where a prior punishment can be seen  as too lenient and increased after an appeal makes sense because you're re-evaluating the sanction handed out. While it may often fall the way of an increased punishment there's scope for them to say they were happy that the original sanction was correct and to not add anything extra. 
The EFL disputes are not covered by the law of the land nor is the proposal that any sanctions would be fairly reassessed, rather they have put in place measures only to add additional, arbitrary punishments for a failed appeal.
Without the backing of criminal law it doesn't really make any sense to do this. Without scope to simply uphold the original decision it doesn't make sense either. Its simply the EFL having their cake and eating it.
Now, not content with that they want to put up further barriers that look to heavily discourage anyone from appealing in the first place!
That isn't a fair and just appeals system.
Their actions aren't in the interests of anyone but themselves and their mindset seems to be that the best way to deal with anything is to hand out as heavy a punishment as they can get away with.
They may as well just be saying "accept your punishment and STFU, if you appeal we will crush you"

In most dispute resolution situations there is extra slack given where there is inequality of status between the disputing parties. SO in financial services if I am involved in a dispute with a bank, I do not get charged or penalised in anyway if I do not win the dispute. In employment tribunals there is no fee charged to the employee and there are usually no costs awards either. Attempts to change that situation were opposed on grounds of it being an  offence to natural justice 
In Derby's  disputes with EFL there is clear inequality between the parties to the dispute.. basically it is the 71 other EFL clubs ganging up on us to give us a kicking. So the EFL should be very keen to be seen to be independent and to avoid bully boy tactics.  EFL has consistently failed spectacularly to do either.    
The particular proposal, if true , is yet another example of EFL's failures to be independent and to avoid bullying. I cannot think of any precedent , even where parties to a dispute are of equal standing, that would require the professionals involved in the dispute to be held personally liable if the dispute is not won. Quite apart from any failings by EFL to be independent or fair, it is offensive to the professionals involved and implies they are somehow trying it on.
 
Contrary to what some podcasters may say, there are on the face of it strong grounds for an appeal. That may not mean that Derby will win the appeal, but they are perfectly entitled to make it and it is crass , cynical and manipulative if EFL are seeking to discourage the appeal in this way. 
     
 

Hi Angie/Jim,
The issue you will have, amongst the wider DCFC community, is with the objective highlighted in bold.
Myself, I am ambivalent towards RT, I certainly don't share some of the negative views held by some about the Trust.
However, how can it claim to be democratic? Are the Board elected by other Board Members, or paid trust members? It certainly isn't done by DCFC's wider community, and therein lies the issue about representation. 
Ultimately, people will always resent being represented by those whom aren't elected (not least by that individual). Sadly, for RT to be an accountable, trustworthy and widely supported Trust it needs to be far more transparent and engaging with fans beyond the RT sphere.
So, on a positive; welcome. If this is the beginning of RT reaching out to the wider community then it is absolutely welcomed and arguably should have come some time before now and I wish you success in the venture.

They seem to be completely upending the entire premise of limited liability and trying to enforce unlimited liability on owners. 
It didn't work 300 years ago (basically forced the economy to be only sole traders with no company formation or capital reallocation) and it won't work now.