brady1993

Its a nagging concern I've had about him from the off is that his view of tactics is narrow and simplistic, so he cant correctly diagnose when something is wrong to change it. The solution always seems to be work harder/be better/get the ball forwards faster. 

Its a nagging concern I've had about him from the off is that his view of tactics is narrow and simplistic, so he cant correctly diagnose when something is wrong to change it. The solution always seems to be work harder/be better/get the ball forwards faster. 

From that interview, the first topic of discussion feeds into what @brady1993 keeps saying.
When asked are these players being able to play his system, Warne's response: "I don't think we're losing due to tactics or player deficiencies... or a flaw in the system". To me, this is a concern that he didn't categorically deny it, and cannot see the very obvious reason why we have been struggling so far against top half opposition, especially when he has signed 8 players specifically for his system.

People saying we're not spending enough to get out of the league, while conveniently ignoring the fact Plymouth got promoted with a budget that most of us would struggle to do a weekly shop with.
People also claim Sheffield Wednesday spent loads, when their last financial report showed their lowest wage spend in 10 years.
Ipswich spent a decent wedge, but they'd just been taken over, and had yank bank accounts to drain.
Realistically, who else in this league is spending money? I absolutely do not buy the argument that anyone in this league is chucking money about. A sensible budget  backed by a decent crowd (which we had last year, never mind this) should have us competing right at the top, financially. And should be more than enough to challenge for promotion.

A small squad by choice. Warne thought Collins and McGoldrick would be enough to see us through the season. He also chose not to spread the minutes around between more of the players in the squad (Rooney and Thompson), including the two players he did choose to sign in January (White and Springett). Nor did he use any U21s, despite several having Championship experience for the club. His team selection also resulted in our 3rd choice CF being recalled, and sold a promising (albeit injury prone) forwardwho could have helped lighten the load for our aging forwards.

Before he sells Bird and Cashin, and drives out Rooney and Thompson through lack of playing time, replacing them by 33+ year old journeymen.
Said before... Seems a nice enough guy but I don't think he's the right manager for our club. I'm far from convinced by his tactics and team selection.
Voted "on the edge, not yet 100% against him" but it's getting closer every game.

If Clowes was happy to sit in League 1 for 4 years there isn't a chance in hell he'd shuttled out Rosenior last year and replaced him with someone who's supposed primary selling point is getting out of league 1.
If he was happy to take time in League 1 he could have let things play out for a year with Rosenior, seeing if it clicked and all the well get the behind the scenes infrastructure right and beginning to really scout for the best fit for the job. All the messaging even by Warne has been with an eye on a relatively fast promotion.

If Clowes was happy to sit in League 1 for 4 years there isn't a chance in hell he'd shuttled out Rosenior last year and replaced him with someone who's supposed primary selling point is getting out of league 1.
If he was happy to take time in League 1 he could have let things play out for a year with Rosenior, seeing if it clicked and all the well get the behind the scenes infrastructure right and beginning to really scout for the best fit for the job. All the messaging even by Warne has been with an eye on a relatively fast promotion.

If Clowes was happy to sit in League 1 for 4 years there isn't a chance in hell he'd shuttled out Rosenior last year and replaced him with someone who's supposed primary selling point is getting out of league 1.
If he was happy to take time in League 1 he could have let things play out for a year with Rosenior, seeing if it clicked and all the well get the behind the scenes infrastructure right and beginning to really scout for the best fit for the job. All the messaging even by Warne has been with an eye on a relatively fast promotion.

Does anybody actually think that means spend 4 years in League one then get promoted though?  I've always taken that to mean go up within the first 2, or maybe 3, years and then spend 2 or 3 years getting established in the championship - i.e. building a comfortable top half squad so we can kick on.  The longer we spend at this level, the harder it is going to be to get out of it.

I think you've missed my point or I didn't explain it well enough.
I'm more than happy to be patient. In fact I think we should be patient and be thinking long term. I'd have stuck with Rosenior for longer than he got because I think in spite of a somewhat rocky start I could see the longer term view in what he was trying. 
If someone came in and basically took a season to build a team around of academy players, giving them a season to grow and gel. So that we could propel forwards in later seasons I'd be all for that. Or if they took a few gambles on younger, rawer players in the hopes of developing them.
But all of Warne's moves both tactically and in the market feel short term. And I have nagging concerns over his management of player fitness.
I have sympathy for the argument of let's just get out of league 1 and sort things out later. But I don't see evidence of Warne doing that quickly. His signings in a fair few places don't seem good fits for how he wants to play. There is an air of struggling to either attract talent and keeping talent. And current performances are way off the mark.
Basically it feels like the worst of both worlds and a bit rudderless. He's likely not going to give short term success and he's likely  not going to sustainable long term success. 
I just don't see a compelling argument that he's the right man for the job and increasingly "but 3 promotions at Rotherham" feels like the 2023 "but at Leicester". 
(I'll caveat this by saying maybe we can't realistically afford to sack him, I just can't talk to that.)
At this point I'd probably be scouting for someone who's done good work at an academy somewhere maybe somebody like Jody Morris. A solid track record of taking players and developing them because that's how we go forwards materially.

That is the most misleading statement I constantly see about Warne since he landed at Derby - as you rightly say, it's almost like a magic trick at this stage. Below are Rotherham's last 9 seasons - 6 of them at Championship level & 3 of them at League One. Warne presided over 3 of those 6 Championship seasons & in every one, he relegated them. By contrast, Neil Redfearn, Neil Warnock & Matt Taylor (last season) kept them up in the respective seasons they were in charge.
Warne's promotions were all with a recent Championship squad - he did not build it from scratch, he had an inbuilt advantage with their recent division & returned them to where they had generally been. Stating 'promoted three times' sounds like successive promotions when in reality it was correcting his own poor performance from the season previously;
 

 
As to the general point about Warne's future, the atmosphere both in the ground & on social media suggest he is very much living on borrowed time. His failure to reach the playoffs in May was met with a very muted reaction as people seemed to believe the summer would allow him to put his imprint on the squad both from a personnel & a tactical standpoint. Having shown such patience after throwing away a playoff spot in Feb/March, there now appears to be delayed anger at the very poor start & I can't say I'm surprised.
Obviously the recruitment situation hasn't totally played out until the window closes but I have been thoroughly confused as to the direction of travel. We needed pace throughout the team, we needed midfield aggression & we have not addressed either. Warne's teams like to press high but we buy slow defenders who struggle against the counter attack. We lose a pivotal forward who gave us goals & creativity & replace him belatedly with two burly workhorses up top. Clowes says he has the budget to compete & I would trust that - Warne by contrast is now speaking in riddles on the radio about private reasons why all isn't as it seems. Not the kind of comments to help your future employment prospects when your team is playing so badly.

I think you've missed my point or I didn't explain it well enough.
I'm more than happy to be patient. In fact I think we should be patient and be thinking long term. I'd have stuck with Rosenior for longer than he got because I think in spite of a somewhat rocky start I could see the longer term view in what he was trying. 
If someone came in and basically took a season to build a team around of academy players, giving them a season to grow and gel. So that we could propel forwards in later seasons I'd be all for that. Or if they took a few gambles on younger, rawer players in the hopes of developing them.
But all of Warne's moves both tactically and in the market feel short term. And I have nagging concerns over his management of player fitness.
I have sympathy for the argument of let's just get out of league 1 and sort things out later. But I don't see evidence of Warne doing that quickly. His signings in a fair few places don't seem good fits for how he wants to play. There is an air of struggling to either attract talent and keeping talent. And current performances are way off the mark.
Basically it feels like the worst of both worlds and a bit rudderless. He's likely not going to give short term success and he's likely  not going to sustainable long term success. 
I just don't see a compelling argument that he's the right man for the job and increasingly "but 3 promotions at Rotherham" feels like the 2023 "but at Leicester". 
(I'll caveat this by saying maybe we can't realistically afford to sack him, I just can't talk to that.)
At this point I'd probably be scouting for someone who's done good work at an academy somewhere maybe somebody like Jody Morris. A solid track record of taking players and developing them because that's how we go forwards materially.

I think it likely comes down to a combination of things.
1) Rosenior having better contacts. A lot of the players we brought in spoke of how well rosenior spoke and a lot had either immediate or tangential connections to him.
2) Passing football. Good players get sold on playing good football. Put simply coming to a side trying to play  good passing football is just going to be more fun for players to be a part of than not.
3) Last year we were a just relegated team coming off the back of a season where we dont get relegated without extremely heavy penalties. This year we were an also ran in the league 1 playoff race. Put simply players will be less confident we can bounce out of the league quickly.
4) Signing momentum. This is a bit more nebulous but if you look at the top windows played out they are interesting parallels. Last year we were able to move quickly to convince players to stay and then a good signing begot another good signing (on paper). This year we've lost key players, signings have taken time and haven't been the kinds of names to entice in other players.

I think you've missed my point or I didn't explain it well enough.
I'm more than happy to be patient. In fact I think we should be patient and be thinking long term. I'd have stuck with Rosenior for longer than he got because I think in spite of a somewhat rocky start I could see the longer term view in what he was trying. 
If someone came in and basically took a season to build a team around of academy players, giving them a season to grow and gel. So that we could propel forwards in later seasons I'd be all for that. Or if they took a few gambles on younger, rawer players in the hopes of developing them.
But all of Warne's moves both tactically and in the market feel short term. And I have nagging concerns over his management of player fitness.
I have sympathy for the argument of let's just get out of league 1 and sort things out later. But I don't see evidence of Warne doing that quickly. His signings in a fair few places don't seem good fits for how he wants to play. There is an air of struggling to either attract talent and keeping talent. And current performances are way off the mark.
Basically it feels like the worst of both worlds and a bit rudderless. He's likely not going to give short term success and he's likely  not going to sustainable long term success. 
I just don't see a compelling argument that he's the right man for the job and increasingly "but 3 promotions at Rotherham" feels like the 2023 "but at Leicester". 
(I'll caveat this by saying maybe we can't realistically afford to sack him, I just can't talk to that.)
At this point I'd probably be scouting for someone who's done good work at an academy somewhere maybe somebody like Jody Morris. A solid track record of taking players and developing them because that's how we go forwards materially.

I think you've missed my point or I didn't explain it well enough.
I'm more than happy to be patient. In fact I think we should be patient and be thinking long term. I'd have stuck with Rosenior for longer than he got because I think in spite of a somewhat rocky start I could see the longer term view in what he was trying. 
If someone came in and basically took a season to build a team around of academy players, giving them a season to grow and gel. So that we could propel forwards in later seasons I'd be all for that. Or if they took a few gambles on younger, rawer players in the hopes of developing them.
But all of Warne's moves both tactically and in the market feel short term. And I have nagging concerns over his management of player fitness.
I have sympathy for the argument of let's just get out of league 1 and sort things out later. But I don't see evidence of Warne doing that quickly. His signings in a fair few places don't seem good fits for how he wants to play. There is an air of struggling to either attract talent and keeping talent. And current performances are way off the mark.
Basically it feels like the worst of both worlds and a bit rudderless. He's likely not going to give short term success and he's likely  not going to sustainable long term success. 
I just don't see a compelling argument that he's the right man for the job and increasingly "but 3 promotions at Rotherham" feels like the 2023 "but at Leicester". 
(I'll caveat this by saying maybe we can't realistically afford to sack him, I just can't talk to that.)
At this point I'd probably be scouting for someone who's done good work at an academy somewhere maybe somebody like Jody Morris. A solid track record of taking players and developing them because that's how we go forwards materially.

I think this is flawed thinking though.
The weird thing is I do think eventually he'd be able to achieve promotion but I don't think that's the be all and all. I think we should be thinking more about how continually develop long term. How do we hit the ground running in the Championship? How do we develop? How do we start mounting a push for promotion to the premiership? 
These questions might seem premature but use the time correctly now and it will set us properly for that. Focus purely on promotion and we will flounder. And that's my main issue with Warne, I don't think he's setting us up for long term success and I don't think he's the person to guide us up through those stages as this level is likely around his limit.
The argument would have merit if he looked like he'd be a sure bet on fast promotion but most evidence doesn't point to that being true. Last season was below par. The close season has been not great and the start leaves a lot to be desired.

I think this is flawed thinking though.
The weird thing is I do think eventually he'd be able to achieve promotion but I don't think that's the be all and all. I think we should be thinking more about how continually develop long term. How do we hit the ground running in the Championship? How do we develop? How do we start mounting a push for promotion to the premiership? 
These questions might seem premature but use the time correctly now and it will set us properly for that. Focus purely on promotion and we will flounder. And that's my main issue with Warne, I don't think he's setting us up for long term success and I don't think he's the person to guide us up through those stages as this level is likely around his limit.
The argument would have merit if he looked like he'd be a sure bet on fast promotion but most evidence doesn't point to that being true. Last season was below par. The close season has been not great and the start leaves a lot to be desired.

I think this is flawed thinking though.
The weird thing is I do think eventually he'd be able to achieve promotion but I don't think that's the be all and all. I think we should be thinking more about how continually develop long term. How do we hit the ground running in the Championship? How do we develop? How do we start mounting a push for promotion to the premiership? 
These questions might seem premature but use the time correctly now and it will set us properly for that. Focus purely on promotion and we will flounder. And that's my main issue with Warne, I don't think he's setting us up for long term success and I don't think he's the person to guide us up through those stages as this level is likely around his limit.
The argument would have merit if he looked like he'd be a sure bet on fast promotion but most evidence doesn't point to that being true. Last season was below par. The close season has been not great and the start leaves a lot to be desired.

I think it's both.
I hesitate to post this especially after a win. So know that I hope I'm wrong.
With the way Warne sets things up there is a heavy reliance on either having more quality than the opposition or being able to outwork oppostion/harass them into mistakes. I think this is why his record was good against "lesser" teams last year and its why we get unstuck against "better" teams.
Tactically what we employ is very basic and doesn't do much to get more out of the sum our parts as a team. Our pressing is aggressive but mindless and almost all of our build play amounts to get it wide, quickly and dont worry too much about working the ball or keeping it. So when we are a better/athletic team on paper gaps are more exploitable, it's easier to force possession errors and we are less prone to getting punished by a counter attack. Especially because the lower down the leagues a team is the more they have to decide between talent on the ball and athlecism.
This increasingly doesn't work against better teams as they are more able to keep the ball under pressure, let gaps open up in our midfield and then counter lethally.
And I think a lot of this is kinda unfixable without a major shift in outlook from Warne and his coaching staff. 

I think it's both.
I hesitate to post this especially after a win. So know that I hope I'm wrong.
With the way Warne sets things up there is a heavy reliance on either having more quality than the opposition or being able to outwork oppostion/harass them into mistakes. I think this is why his record was good against "lesser" teams last year and its why we get unstuck against "better" teams.
Tactically what we employ is very basic and doesn't do much to get more out of the sum our parts as a team. Our pressing is aggressive but mindless and almost all of our build play amounts to get it wide, quickly and dont worry too much about working the ball or keeping it. So when we are a better/athletic team on paper gaps are more exploitable, it's easier to force possession errors and we are less prone to getting punished by a counter attack. Especially because the lower down the leagues a team is the more they have to decide between talent on the ball and athlecism.
This increasingly doesn't work against better teams as they are more able to keep the ball under pressure, let gaps open up in our midfield and then counter lethally.
And I think a lot of this is kinda unfixable without a major shift in outlook from Warne and his coaching staff. 

I think it's both.
I hesitate to post this especially after a win. So know that I hope I'm wrong.
With the way Warne sets things up there is a heavy reliance on either having more quality than the opposition or being able to outwork oppostion/harass them into mistakes. I think this is why his record was good against "lesser" teams last year and its why we get unstuck against "better" teams.
Tactically what we employ is very basic and doesn't do much to get more out of the sum our parts as a team. Our pressing is aggressive but mindless and almost all of our build play amounts to get it wide, quickly and dont worry too much about working the ball or keeping it. So when we are a better/athletic team on paper gaps are more exploitable, it's easier to force possession errors and we are less prone to getting punished by a counter attack. Especially because the lower down the leagues a team is the more they have to decide between talent on the ball and athlecism.
This increasingly doesn't work against better teams as they are more able to keep the ball under pressure, let gaps open up in our midfield and then counter lethally.
And I think a lot of this is kinda unfixable without a major shift in outlook from Warne and his coaching staff. 

I can understand the sentiment of people saying it's only 2 games and he needs more time but that somewhat does right off the rest of his time here. The thing for me is that the more time that passes the more evidence stacks up in favor of niggling worries about his potential limitations and that some of his perceived strengths might not be present.
When he joined on the one hand you had his success at Rotherham, a seemingly good record at man management, experience in the division and that he would be able to build a young athletic team. On the other hand there were concerns over his style of play, his results in the Championship, whether he would be able to convert success from Rotherham and whether he head the necessary coaching ability in his staff.
He inherited a good squad and a 7th place finish was below par. Nothing awful but a finish were I think it was fair to ask questions. The bigger concerns for me though were less about the table. Tactically he looked limited, inflexible and like he had a naive view of the game. Coaching of players appeared to go backwards over the season who in a few cases looked rustier and more bereft of what to do as the season developed. And his management of player fitness levels was atrocious likely leading to unnecessary injuries. All of these factors played into the the poor results against decent teams. Frankly we were flat track bullies at best.
All of those issues have been front and centre in these first two games. So mix that with an uninspiring pre-season attaining players who won't likely kick on going into the championship and not really solving issues in the squad and mix in the interview from the other day. Its easy to feel less than enthusiastic about him as manager. 
At this point we've got enough evidence at his strengths and weaknesses and I don't think he's the right person going forwards. I think he could get us promoted eventually but I think in the process of it we will be set back quite significantly in our overall development and i think it will take a long time. Essentially I think it would cost a lot of the young talent at the club and we'd end up with a squad of aging journeymen. A squad in which we would find ourselves probably struggling to stay in the Championship especially given the lack of tactical and coaching acumen currently on display.
I said last year a view I'll reiterate. We need to look at things on the long term. We need to think how do we develop the club overall for sustainable success. How do we produce/acquire cheaply talent  and develop them so we aren't stuck at the whims of high fee spending to progress. How do we develop an identity and footballing ethos that allows the collective club to produce more than the sum of its parts. 
If you look at my previous posts i think its evident im not trigger happy. But at certain point you've got to cut your losses. The evidence points to Warne not fitting the remit and if finances allow I think it's time to move on in the hopes that we can retain the likes of Bird and salvage the rest of the rest of the transfer window.

I can understand the sentiment of people saying it's only 2 games and he needs more time but that somewhat does right off the rest of his time here. The thing for me is that the more time that passes the more evidence stacks up in favor of niggling worries about his potential limitations and that some of his perceived strengths might not be present.
When he joined on the one hand you had his success at Rotherham, a seemingly good record at man management, experience in the division and that he would be able to build a young athletic team. On the other hand there were concerns over his style of play, his results in the Championship, whether he would be able to convert success from Rotherham and whether he head the necessary coaching ability in his staff.
He inherited a good squad and a 7th place finish was below par. Nothing awful but a finish were I think it was fair to ask questions. The bigger concerns for me though were less about the table. Tactically he looked limited, inflexible and like he had a naive view of the game. Coaching of players appeared to go backwards over the season who in a few cases looked rustier and more bereft of what to do as the season developed. And his management of player fitness levels was atrocious likely leading to unnecessary injuries. All of these factors played into the the poor results against decent teams. Frankly we were flat track bullies at best.
All of those issues have been front and centre in these first two games. So mix that with an uninspiring pre-season attaining players who won't likely kick on going into the championship and not really solving issues in the squad and mix in the interview from the other day. Its easy to feel less than enthusiastic about him as manager. 
At this point we've got enough evidence at his strengths and weaknesses and I don't think he's the right person going forwards. I think he could get us promoted eventually but I think in the process of it we will be set back quite significantly in our overall development and i think it will take a long time. Essentially I think it would cost a lot of the young talent at the club and we'd end up with a squad of aging journeymen. A squad in which we would find ourselves probably struggling to stay in the Championship especially given the lack of tactical and coaching acumen currently on display.
I said last year a view I'll reiterate. We need to look at things on the long term. We need to think how do we develop the club overall for sustainable success. How do we produce/acquire cheaply talent  and develop them so we aren't stuck at the whims of high fee spending to progress. How do we develop an identity and footballing ethos that allows the collective club to produce more than the sum of its parts. 
If you look at my previous posts i think its evident im not trigger happy. But at certain point you've got to cut your losses. The evidence points to Warne not fitting the remit and if finances allow I think it's time to move on in the hopes that we can retain the likes of Bird and salvage the rest of the rest of the transfer window.

I can understand the sentiment of people saying it's only 2 games and he needs more time but that somewhat does right off the rest of his time here. The thing for me is that the more time that passes the more evidence stacks up in favor of niggling worries about his potential limitations and that some of his perceived strengths might not be present.
When he joined on the one hand you had his success at Rotherham, a seemingly good record at man management, experience in the division and that he would be able to build a young athletic team. On the other hand there were concerns over his style of play, his results in the Championship, whether he would be able to convert success from Rotherham and whether he head the necessary coaching ability in his staff.
He inherited a good squad and a 7th place finish was below par. Nothing awful but a finish were I think it was fair to ask questions. The bigger concerns for me though were less about the table. Tactically he looked limited, inflexible and like he had a naive view of the game. Coaching of players appeared to go backwards over the season who in a few cases looked rustier and more bereft of what to do as the season developed. And his management of player fitness levels was atrocious likely leading to unnecessary injuries. All of these factors played into the the poor results against decent teams. Frankly we were flat track bullies at best.
All of those issues have been front and centre in these first two games. So mix that with an uninspiring pre-season attaining players who won't likely kick on going into the championship and not really solving issues in the squad and mix in the interview from the other day. Its easy to feel less than enthusiastic about him as manager. 
At this point we've got enough evidence at his strengths and weaknesses and I don't think he's the right person going forwards. I think he could get us promoted eventually but I think in the process of it we will be set back quite significantly in our overall development and i think it will take a long time. Essentially I think it would cost a lot of the young talent at the club and we'd end up with a squad of aging journeymen. A squad in which we would find ourselves probably struggling to stay in the Championship especially given the lack of tactical and coaching acumen currently on display.
I said last year a view I'll reiterate. We need to look at things on the long term. We need to think how do we develop the club overall for sustainable success. How do we produce/acquire cheaply talent  and develop them so we aren't stuck at the whims of high fee spending to progress. How do we develop an identity and footballing ethos that allows the collective club to produce more than the sum of its parts. 
If you look at my previous posts i think its evident im not trigger happy. But at certain point you've got to cut your losses. The evidence points to Warne not fitting the remit and if finances allow I think it's time to move on in the hopes that we can retain the likes of Bird and salvage the rest of the rest of the transfer window.