duncanjwitham

We've gradually shifted from playing through the thirds to playing more aimless balls over the top, it started around the Cheltenham (a) and Bolton (h) games.  You can't point to a single specific game because it's not been a single massive change, it's just something that's crept into our game more and more.  And the overall tiredness is part of it too - it's not just the tactics, it's our fitness to execute those tactics.  For example, you can get away with those long balls if you then press immediately and win the ball back high up the field.  We've stopped doing that too, so those long balls cease to be chances to put their back 4 under pressure, and start being chances for their midfield to run at us.  I'm not the only saying this BTW, multiple other posters have been regularly talking about us playing more long balls in recent weeks.
A lot of the goals we've been conceding have been from people breaking on us - the first goal against Peterborough, 2nd against Fleetwood etc.  And if you watch the highlights of those games back, almost every chance against us is the same - half a dozen opponents streaming forward on the break, while our defence madly backtracks.  There is no doubt in my mind that the tactics we're using, combined with the current lack of fitness, are (at least in part) resulting in those situations.  And dealing with those situations is specifically the weakest part of Cashin's game IMO.
Honestly, I'm finding the "Warne can do no wrong" narrative coming from some people equally tiresome.  He's obviously not the sole reason we've lost form, but he's definitely part of it.

I don’t think we particularly play to his strengths. I think he’d benefit from being in a team that gets a lot of balls into the box - lots of crosses, lots of loose balls rattling around etc. We’ve tended to be a team that’s quite precise in how it approaches the box - we create a few really good chances, rather than lots of half-ones. And those good chances haven’t often fell to Collins.
And beyond that, I suspect he’s one of those players that needs to play every week.  When Warne first came in, he played every game and scored at a reasonable rate. More recently, he’s had bits and bobs, with the odd start every now and then, and looked miles off it.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Cashin's form has dropped off a bit as soon as we started lumping it forwards, the midfield got to tired to chase it back every time and we just get endlessly counter-attacked on.  We're literally engineering the situations that Cashin struggles the most in (quick forwards running at him with no support).  Forsyth's form has dipped at exactly the same time, as has Smiths, which also suggests it's something structural in the team, rather than an individual player.  When we were controlling games a lot more, moving the ball through the thirds etc, Cashin was excellent. 
And for what it's worth, I don't even think his form has dropped enough to warrant a thread like this.  He's been fantastic all season and even with a slight dip he's more than good enough.  He was nowhere near our worst player on Saturday - I can easily think of 4 or 5 who were worse, and arguably more than that.

Part of what’s annoying me so much is that the mistake has been made, it’s too late to fix it now (IMO obviously). There’s no realistic prospect of sacking Warne because any compensation is going to eat into the already-small playing budget too much.   But I don’t see him having any kind of sustained success with this squad, and I don’t see any realistic prospect of getting him the squad he wants next season either - I still think we’ll be largely restricted to frees and loans, which probably means a smallish squad of kids and over-30s again.  So we’re stuck going nowhere, and it’s entirely our own choice.  I can live with bad luck etc, but I don’t accept doing stupid things where the outcome is entirely predictable, and then acting surprised when it happens.

The way I see it, we knew the position going into the season. We knew we were going to probably have a small, hastily assembled squad.  We should be using that to guide what we’re doing, not doing the complete opposite and then saying we can’t help it when things go wrong.  It’s only an excuse because we’re making it one.  
 
If we have a small squad, full of older players, instead of running them into the ground and saying “nothing we can do about it, went into admin”, maybe you just don’t play ultra-aggressive pressing for 90 minutes every week.  If you don’t have any target men, don’t lump the ball forward, lose it and say “sorry, admin, no players”, you just don’t lump it forwards all the time.  And so on and so on.

Well no, it probably wasn’t quite that, but I’m sure that their game plan at least had some element of “stay in the game, let them tire themselves out and then capitalise”.  If you’ve watched any of our recent games, the pattern of play has been obvious.

I think it’s a contrasting styles of play thing more than anything.  I think Warne wants us to be the kind of team where Collins does well (he said as much when he was appointed), but we don’t have the players to do it.  The only time the midfield balance has looked right is with Bird, Hourihane and Knight pushing on, and with McGoldrick having to play (because he’s our best player), there’s no room for Collins.  The spell where Collins did well, we were playing more of a regular 442 and while Collins personally did okay, the rest of the team didn’t function as well as in a 4231.

Well no, it probably wasn’t quite that, but I’m sure that their game plan at least had some element of “stay in the game, let them tire themselves out and then capitalise”.  If you’ve watched any of our recent games, the pattern of play has been obvious.

I don’t think we particularly play to his strengths. I think he’d benefit from being in a team that gets a lot of balls into the box - lots of crosses, lots of loose balls rattling around etc. We’ve tended to be a team that’s quite precise in how it approaches the box - we create a few really good chances, rather than lots of half-ones. And those good chances haven’t often fell to Collins.
And beyond that, I suspect he’s one of those players that needs to play every week.  When Warne first came in, he played every game and scored at a reasonable rate. More recently, he’s had bits and bobs, with the odd start every now and then, and looked miles off it.

Well no, it probably wasn’t quite that, but I’m sure that their game plan at least had some element of “stay in the game, let them tire themselves out and then capitalise”.  If you’ve watched any of our recent games, the pattern of play has been obvious.

Out of interest, when does the “you should be happy we still have a club” excuse run out? If we’re still in League One in 5 years time, should we still be using that to excuse managers making the same, obvious mistakes every week?

I thought Ferguson was in control of this game from start to finish. 
For all our possession first half, how many chances did we create? Their back line stood firm and absorbed the pressure.
Change it up at half time after our side had tired ourselves out making all the running, bring on pace and it's job done with minimum effort. It could have been more and his team are still fresh for next week's challenge. 

I don’t think we particularly play to his strengths. I think he’d benefit from being in a team that gets a lot of balls into the box - lots of crosses, lots of loose balls rattling around etc. We’ve tended to be a team that’s quite precise in how it approaches the box - we create a few really good chances, rather than lots of half-ones. And those good chances haven’t often fell to Collins.
And beyond that, I suspect he’s one of those players that needs to play every week.  When Warne first came in, he played every game and scored at a reasonable rate. More recently, he’s had bits and bobs, with the odd start every now and then, and looked miles off it.

The way I see it, we knew the position going into the season. We knew we were going to probably have a small, hastily assembled squad.  We should be using that to guide what we’re doing, not doing the complete opposite and then saying we can’t help it when things go wrong.  It’s only an excuse because we’re making it one.  
 
If we have a small squad, full of older players, instead of running them into the ground and saying “nothing we can do about it, went into admin”, maybe you just don’t play ultra-aggressive pressing for 90 minutes every week.  If you don’t have any target men, don’t lump the ball forward, lose it and say “sorry, admin, no players”, you just don’t lump it forwards all the time.  And so on and so on.

League one by the sound of it.

The way I see it, we knew the position going into the season. We knew we were going to probably have a small, hastily assembled squad.  We should be using that to guide what we’re doing, not doing the complete opposite and then saying we can’t help it when things go wrong.  It’s only an excuse because we’re making it one.  
 
If we have a small squad, full of older players, instead of running them into the ground and saying “nothing we can do about it, went into admin”, maybe you just don’t play ultra-aggressive pressing for 90 minutes every week.  If you don’t have any target men, don’t lump the ball forward, lose it and say “sorry, admin, no players”, you just don’t lump it forwards all the time.  And so on and so on.

It's Warne's job yo get the best out of these players. He's clearly failing at that at the moment.

The way I see it, we knew the position going into the season. We knew we were going to probably have a small, hastily assembled squad.  We should be using that to guide what we’re doing, not doing the complete opposite and then saying we can’t help it when things go wrong.  It’s only an excuse because we’re making it one.  
 
If we have a small squad, full of older players, instead of running them into the ground and saying “nothing we can do about it, went into admin”, maybe you just don’t play ultra-aggressive pressing for 90 minutes every week.  If you don’t have any target men, don’t lump the ball forward, lose it and say “sorry, admin, no players”, you just don’t lump it forwards all the time.  And so on and so on.

So you’re both quite happy to be in League One for 3 or 4 seasons?  I think if that happens there’s a genuine danger that we get stuck here for a long time.  I’m not saying we should automatically be winning the league or anything, but we should be expecting more than we’re seeing at the moment IMO. 
 
If Warne is not capable of getting this squad to perform, and there’s no realistic prospect of giving him the squad he wants for multiple seasons (let’s be honest we’re not splashing cash around this summer either), then he simply should never have been given the job.

Warne is on the record that he wants his midfielders to forget what’s happening behind them and just go and close down the guy with the ball, and if they get caught out doing that it’s Warne’s fault, not the players.  It was the post-match interview after Knights first start for him, if I remember correctly.
Personally, I think that’s an insane way to set up a football team, but 🤷‍♂️