duncanjwitham

Just now, Wolfie20 said:

We're 3 games into a 46 game season - if we are in a similar situation say by the end of October then perhaps more fans will be sharing the same concerns as a few in here currently are.

Last Saturdays' win, although not a particularly exciting or controlled performance, nevertheless brought 3 points and a clean sheet  - surely less of "a mess" than the previous week? Granted no new players in but the window is still open.

Given that we've apparently wanted to play a back 3 since Warne got here, we've signed a load of players specifically to play it, we spent the whole of preseason practicing it...  The fact we had to almost completely abandon it after 4 games to get an even remotely acceptable performance isn't exactly a resounding sign that things are getting better.

And I'm yet to be convinced the solution to the "Warne signed a load of players that can't play his system" problem is "let Warne sign even more players" either.

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

You have a real downer on Paul Warne mate .

Where does this stem from .

The club was in a mess so some patience is needed IMO .

 

The fact we seem to be getting into an even bigger mess, week by week?

8 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

We could have had the same record against the “top” sides but gained an extra 16 points by winning instead of drawing the 8 games I mentioned above and we’d comfortably have finished in the play offs. 
All the games count across the whole season, we need to pick up more points than we did last season, against whoever the opponents are.

Up until the point you make the playoffs, then you *have* to beat 2 top 6 sides to go up...

6 minutes ago, Carnero said:

I thought it was quite clear to see at the game, not sure whether you went or not? 2nd half obviously became a 5 once the messy subs had been made, how we ended up with Nelson as some sort of RWB towards the latter stages is beyond me 🤦‍♂️

Yeah, I was there. I’m sat level with our left back area second half, so Cashin was taking all the throwins right in front of me, which stood out like a sore thumb.  Whatever we were supposed to be doing, I don’t think we were doing it consistently (or if we were, I couldn’t spot the pattern).  Maybe starting out as a 5 and then transitioning to a 4 once we’d played out into midfield or something 🤷‍♂️. Anyway, it seemed a bit unnecessarily complicated to me.
 

No arguments it was a 5 once Elder and co came on.  The later changes just felt like getting making changes for the sake of making changes, and we only had senior defenders on the bench so it had to be them. Not sure how NML played the full game either, he was absolutely dead after an hour.

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

I was more concerned about him saying he wanted to sign another right wing back. What's he going to do with the other two when they're fit again? 🤔 

I would hope it’s a loan to January. It *should* be fairly easy to go to a prem club, show them the 2 injuries and convince them to loan us a youngster who will get a load of game-time.

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

I think it was 4 at the back when attacking and 5 when defending? Not sure it was a bit messy most of the time. 

That’s how I saw it.

1 minute ago, Carnero said:

First half it was clearly a back 4 when defending, becoming a 3 when attacking with Fozzy providing the width as a semi LWB.

 

That’s not how I saw it, although like @RoyMac5 says, it was a bit messy.  The right hand side definitely seemed to be working as a winger+fullback when we were going forward, with Rooney staying pretty wide and playing NML in a bunch of times.  And I think the left was more just a case of Thompson tucking into (attacking) midfield and letting Forsyth bomb on (a bit like the old Brayford/Coutts combo, but on the other side).  Either way, there were definitely times when we lined up with a clear back 5, with Rooney, Nelson and Cashin as a central 3.

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

Nonsense! Only resorted to a back 5 in the last 10 minutes.

We were definitely trying to drop into a back 5 when we were defending, with Rooney tucking in and NML at right wingback.  It didn’t happen as much in the first half, but the entire second half it was pretty clear.  Cashin taking all the throwins on the left hand side being the most obvious giveaway.  

And like you say, we switched it full time when all the subs came on in the last 15 or so.

If we do end up going with a back 4 tomorrow, it will be interesting to see which central defender gets dropped. I suspect, given the lack of alternatives anyway, we end up with Nelson just moved to right back, which mostly avoids any awkward conversations.  But dropping one of your big summer signings, or one of your best young players, would certainly be a statement whichever way it goes.

2 minutes ago, jameso said:

@Woodley Ram didn't say for which club he signed the new 2 year contract

It's gonna turn out to be "10GB of data a month on Vodaphone" or something, isn't it?

16 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

I'm not really sure looking at this season a a clean slate really helps matters. You can't even factor our good run from last season and any of the positive performances into your thought processes, otherwise it's not really a clean slate?

If the starting point is when pre-season began and the transfer window opened, ignoring anything and everything about the season before that just brings into focus just how how messy things have got in 2-3 months.

Giving him the benefit of doubt, is probably more like it.

I'm finding it hard to take a clean-slate approach when the performances (particularly Oxford and Blackpool) look *very* similar to a bunch of performances from last season (particularly those early Warne games against Port Vale and Exeter).  It's a similar bunch of players, in a similar system, struggling in the same ways and making the same types of mistakes.

24 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Sounds like potentially long term injuries for Bird, Ward and Wilson. Says early on that it’s 2 suspected bone injuries and 1 suspected tendon injury, without specifying which players are which or any timescales as still waiting for full diagnosis.

He did say Ward's was a heel injury after the last game, which would fit with an Achilles tendon injury.  But then again, it looked to me like Bird was struggling with his ankle, so could maybe be the same.  And I got the impression Wilson was more like an ongoing issue they were managing than a new injury, and that would make more sense if it was say tendonitis.  You don't tend to get ongoing broken legs or something.  So yeah, it could be any of them.  Hope that's a valuable insight for everyone 👍.

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Tell that to Gorgeous George. 😞

I very nearly wrote that myself, but didn't want to jinx anything...

2 minutes ago, Rample said:

Warne has all but confirmed its a 'bone injury'. Sounds like he hasn't got the medical reports yet though to know exactly how bad.

I'm in no way a medical expert, but I *think* that's probably better than something like a ligament injury.  Obviously it depends on how bad the bone injury is etc.

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

We all know Warne likes a threesome at the back, but that puts a whole new spin on things...

(I'm very, very sorry everyone...)

5 minutes ago, David said:

Crazy looking back that he had assembled all the ingredients, just for whatever reason couldn't get anything more than beans and toast out of them.

You always expect a little new manager bounce, but that turn around was ridiculous....I remember when McClaren was first linked, was a divisive decision.

I'm not really sure that's true.  We weren't playing a million miles off what we ended up doing under McClaren, and we'd already put 5 past Millwall and 3 past Yeovil while playing excellent football.  We'd only lost 4 games when Clough was sacked, and the corresponding fixtures under McClaren weren't that much better either - losses to Leicester and Burnley under both managers, and we only picked a point more against Reading under McClaren. Obviously we put 5 past Forest under McClaren, but we also ended up losing to Millwall, having hammered them under Clough.

12 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Ward has looked fine at wingback to me, and his crossing has led to 1/4 of our goals so far this season, so I'm not sure what they were saying is accurate, to be fair?

I explained it better in one of the (many) other posts - basically, I think he's a good crosser when he's got space and time to cross, but he struggles to create that space for himself, because he hasn't really got a burst of pace or a trick to get clear of a fullback.  So a huge number of his crosses end up getting blocked by the first man.  And playing at wingback makes that worse, as he has no support to draw defenders away, he's often doubled-up by their winger and fullback.

11 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

As long as you remember the heavy tinge of negative bias in these comments, thanks to the fact fans rarely want to speak positively about departing players. It's like a confirmation bias of ''we didn't need him anyway'' and then finding ways to justify that sentiment.

I also tend to have a look at general opinion online ,and regarding Ward, they also said how hard-working he was, great attitude etc. It wasn't exclusively negative. Forsyth hadn't played fullback before signing with us and that turned out okay...

I've not been impressed with the new signings yet, but I would try and argue that they made sense on paper (as individual signings, not whether we should have got a striker instead etc.)

I'm not saying do all your scouting on Google, or take anything opposing fans say as gospel or anything. But 5 minutes Googling revealed a bunch of red flags about all those players, and so far they all seem bang on to me.

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Come on it's a sit-on one! 😄

Ok, but I'm mowing this pattern into the turf:

15 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Head Coach @angieram

Chief Scout @Ghost of Clough

Chef @sage

Groundman @duncanjwitham

Seems like a good team - as long as Angie doesn't play 3 at the back

Why do I have to work the sodding lawn mower? 🤬

1 minute ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I personally think Ward is better than every player who left, 

Wilson looks a decent signing

I'm far from convinced with either.  Ward looks like he's a good crosser when he's got a bit of time and space to put one in, but he seems to struggle to actually create that space for himself.  He doesn't have that burst of pace or bit of trickery to get clear of a fullback, so ends up hitting the first man more often than not.  I don't think playing at wingback is helping that either, as he's quite often getting doubled-up on by the opposing winger and fullback.  An overlapping fullback to draw a defender away would help a lot there.

Wilson just looks poor to me.  No doubt he can beat a man, but he's managed to put in 1 decent cross or final ball (second half against Oxford) in 5 home games (including the 2 friendlies).  Obviously he hasn't played much in some of those, but he's rivalling Dobbin for lack of end product so far.  And defensively he looks an absolute liability.

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

But, but that can't possibly work, thank goodness we accidently signed Waggy, he can replace Collins! 😄

Waghorn is probably more suited to playing up front in the team I listed than Collins is tbh. At least he can hold it up a bit and link the play a bit. And that team probably isn't going to be peppering the box with crosses for Collins to thrive off either.

More concerning would going into the rest of the season with Smith as our starting right back again.  I'm not remotely sure Ward and Wilson are good enough defensively to play wingback, let alone fullback.

Possibly the more interesting question, is how many of the new signings get into our current best XI.  You can put together a pretty decent team that has none of them in:

Wildsmith

Smith Rooney Cashin Forsyth

Bird Hourihane

NML Sibley Barkhuizen

Collins

46 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

People aren't angry/upset because they think we should be walking this league. There's a massive, massive gap between where we are now and walking the league.

I'd just be happy to feel like the team can turn up and play competitive football. I don't care about winning. We have no divine right to anything in football. The beauty of it is every team is exactly where they deserve to be.

I just want to see the people in charge of the club (including owner and manager) make good, logical decisions for a change.

I think that, even if you believe Warne was absolutely the right man to get us up, the way we appointed him has basically doomed him to failure before he even started.  It's becoming very obvious that Warne has no intention of doing anything other than trying to recreate his Rotherham system here, so that in combination with the squad we had in place at the point he was appointed and the financial restrictions, means we're pretty much writing off 2 seasons while we replace most of the existing squad.  And no manager is going to survive 2 seasons of turmoil while he builds an entirely new squad in football.  If we don't go up (or at least come very, very close) this season, Warne is toast no matter what anyone says.

It seems very clear to me that the process that resulted in Rosenior for 10 games and then Warne, was fundamentally flawed.  And unfortunately Clowes was a big part of that process.

11 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I agree with your take on it, 2 or 3 years in league one, leaving 3 or 2 years establishing ourselves in the championship. Still within the 5 year expectation Clowes has set and publicly shared, so whilst people can be unhappy with the way we’re playing and the transfer dealings etc, as is there right, I was just highlighting that Clowes has said what he expects from the club where a couple of posters were discussing the potential need for him to come out and say something. He already has, it’s up to us as individuals to decide if we can accept those expectations or not, I just don’t see why Clowes should have to say it again louder for those at the back 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

I suppose the counter argument is that "going up in 2 or 3 years" would imply the need for some element of relatively quick improvement.  If we were to finish lower than last year, then it makes going up in 2 or 3 years very difficult. There's also the aspect of monitoring performance against the stated plan.  We obviously aren't intending to just wait 5 years and then see if we are established in the championship, there has to be some degree of ongoing evaluation.  And at this (admittedly very early) stage, there's no sign of improvement (in fact things seem to be getting worse) and we look way off track to meet the stated goals.

7 minutes ago, RAMSINCE1969 said:

I find it strange that he lets the number 2 stand in the technical area from the start of the game, he then takes over in the second half (when we are losing), he’s the manager and he should be in there from the first minute, against Oxford he has his hands in his pockets 

 

Honestly, I think there's a lot of nonsense talked about a lot of stuff that's (mostly) irrelevant.  All managers have their own ways of handling things, dealing with pressure, setting things up, organising their staff etc.  I think where he stands in the technical area, his mannerisms in interviews, how he chooses his captain, and a bunch of other similar things *really* don't matter in the grand scheme of things.  He's either setting his team up well or not, got his team playing well or not, getting results or not.  And the only reasons we're talking about all that other stuff is that most of the important stuff is currently marked in the "or not" column.

(I should say, the "mostly" is there for the odd thing where I think he has messed up, like the "head's turned" comments.)