Dai Capp

7 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Thanks. So if that's the case, is it true that the EFL are insisting it remains an EFL arbitration matter with the two  clubs then given football creditor status, because if they don't agree to that they think Boro might sue them? And that this is the logjam in terms of appointing a preferred bidder and coming out of administration?

[edit: and is there anything in writing anywhere that confirms this?]

The other advantage for EFL keeping it as a matter of EFL arbitration is that the proceedings and outcomes are private and confidential - particularly helpful when you're under the microscope yourself. If it goes to court it will be a very public undressing for all concerned I suspect and as the regulator that would be particularly embarrassing.

12 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

What have Quantuma done? They didn’t just release a statement on Friday night, they released a hand grenade which has exploded spectacularly, fans have latched onto it creates momentum and within 2 working days parliament are involved. They’ve not spoken because they haven’t needed to.

EFL have nearly spontaneously combusted with their statement last night. Basically implied their insolvency rules are open to interpretation and subject to change, in other words they make it up as they go along ???

Boro come out today citing systematic cheating as the basis for their claim on a set of arguments already settled and ruled upon by disciplinary commissions (ie stadium sale) and also the same arguments as the case they brought to the LAP which was ruled against, no systematic cheating was found in ANY of the judgements in the original IDC, subsequent LAP, and final IDC ruling, all they have is subjective opinion.

Wycombe, while RD gave Couhig the platform to prove he’s a sharp lawyer, they also let him reveal his reasons for the action, which proves they absolutely have no case at all because the IDC did not rule on the Derby sanction, the fine of £100k and the restatement of accounts until after the season had ended, therefore there is no way the points could have been applied earlier, the whole process we also know was delayed by Boro’s failed action, the LAP judgement told us this.

They have all questioned the actions of Quantuma, of course they are going to!! They want to deflect from the weakness of their arguments and all those parties are concerned about how they’re being portrayed. Are Quantuma bothered, maybe/maybe not but it’s not about saving public face it’s about getting a deal done no matter how dirty it gets. They’ve not spoken to Boro and Wycombe because they don’t believe the claims and have a legal way around them potentially, so they weren’t priority, doing a deal with HMRC was absolute priority, while Pauline Latham said we wasn’t entirely happy about her meeting with the administrators, I’m sure I read another post say she believes it has implied Quantuma have a deal with HMRC. In fact we go back to Quantuma’s statement last Friday and that also implies they have a deal in place with everyone (or at least a route forward) except Boro and Wycombe. The events of the last few days have refocused everyone and led all parties to say they’re willing to come to the table to try and sort this out - maybe that is what they wanted and exactly what was needed.

The MPs are now challenging ALL parties to get this deal done and that is the right approach and Quantuma will be under pressure to deliver on their requirements.

 

Perfect!

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Er.. we had a statement on Friday. That's two working days ago.  

Pretty sure I didn't mention comms to fans.

The point is we have several parties now who you would expect would be talking saying they're not having dialogue...

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The good news is that due to the amount of pressure that's been focused recently on our plight Boro and Wycombe have both come out with preemptive strikes as PR exercises to try and justify their stances.

Bad news is that they've done that as clearly they both intend to press ahead with their claims.

they have both said they're willing to compromise though (tiny positive) - massive negative though is that I'm not sure Q are capable of holding a place at that table. 

I have many concerns about DCFC right now but one is this recurring theme of Q not communicating. We've had it from Kirchner, EFL, Boro, Wycombe, Radio Derby and other press.

I would have thought a fundamental part of the process would be open comms - it's all well and good having a plan for cross class cram down but just in case that didn't float, you'd surely be engaging with the claimants to have a backstop, regardless of whether you think they have a valid claim. 

I can't help but think between EFL and Q our future isn't in great hands and the Boro and Wycombe claims are being used by both as an excuse to cover their joint ineptitude.

3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

So…hasn’t Parry in his interview with The Athletics Podcast (I think that’s what Ed Dawes said), essentially admitted that they went after Derby because Middlesborough have told them to? ‘Cause that’s pretty big in my eyes if so as it shows we aren’t being dealt with in a non biased way!

Said it all the way through, they are scared of being sued by Middlesborough and have let Derby take the flack. The only scapegoats here has been Derby County Football Club

I think Parry is saying that Boro did sue them and they made it go away by promising to go after Derby. Parry may regret saying that if this plays out in court...

I suspect the solution will be either EFL update their rules under pressure from MP's and the Admins go down their proposed exit plan (not sure whether this would prevent Boro and Wycombe bringing the claims again post admin) or a sum in full and final settlement is agreed between prospective new owners and the claimants.

However we as fans may feel about it, in most cases there's an amount that makes business sense to all parties to make the matter go away and money changes hands.

8 minutes ago, maxjam said:

 

Powerful to hear him speak like that...

The Boro statement isn't anything to be excited about, it's just a pacifier for their fans really but it does show that they're feeling a little uncomfortable, it opens the door and let's face it, it's not the first time we've heard about poor comms from Quantuma...

15 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

 

I think Pauline Latham took the time to meet with both DCFC and EFL yesterday so should have both sides of the argument... 

What all this activity is telling me is that since Friday the fans, the players and manager, MPs of both sides, local authorities, local businesses and now Curtis on Talksport have taken the fight on and shifted momentum. You don't have to spend long on social media to see the narrative has changed.

Now it's time for Quantuma to join the cause and show some fight for the club and if they don't we can presumably bring the same pressure to their door

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Just replied to him stating that there have been many clubs over the last few years suffer through the poor governance of EFL and that i hope they won't leave it without at least talking to Quantuma. Noticed Margaret Beckett has waded in as well...

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Floodgates ! The league becomes a courtroom if they get a penny. The best Boro will do in an arbitration is:

yes we agree Derby is in breach of the contract between the clubs and the EFL, because it broke the rules 

BUT it is a term of that contract that the penalty for FFP breach is through the disciplinary process. So clubs can’t claim damages against each other 

Exactly that -  and that's why I'm wondering if  it's giving pause for thought - not just from DCFC but it's risky for EFL. They seem to be pushing for either a quiet 'here's a few quid' from Derby or force it through the route you described, possibly hoping for that outcome. I think EFL are probably more concerned about an exit that could see Derby vs Boro in court. Just thinking aloud really...

It would be good if either BAWT or RT could dig for a bit more info on that. I suspect they'd just get the 'it's a legal matter' response though...

13 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't think the administrators are totally blameless in all of this neither are the EFL, the truth more often than not lies somewhere in between.

Think that's right - the truth lies in the middle somewhere but neither seem to be grown up enough to get their heads together and sort it. I think that's probably what Round 1 of the MP's was about - I don't think we've seen the last of that yet.

Incidentally, I'm reading more and more on social media and Boro forums that the £45m number is way off the mark and they're actually looking for the play off semi gate receipts and TV revenue. If true that's a far more plausible opening position that might garner a more  sympathetic view in court. That could be why it's giving pause for thought.

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

Some MPs are meeting with the administrators tomorrow so they will hear their side of the argument then.

I'd personally like to see the administrators and EFL being questioned at the same time so that they could challenge each other's spin. 

I have suggested this to RT, who have suddenly now been asked to meet with the EFL again.

The MPs won't know everything about the case but they are raising awareness and getting things moving.

 

I just hope it's either the same MP's or they at least share notes. FWIW I think MP's bringing both together to get to the bottom of this would be perfect

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Been fobbed off there and doesn’t understand that the administrators went there to do exactly that but were told they couldn’t 

I've just replied to his tweet and pretty much said that... they now need to talk to Q for their side

25 minutes ago, Ramewe said:

 

If Brigden is involved from the MP's side he'll see through that for what it is as will most of the others. They didn't come down on the last shower

4 minutes ago, MikeS said:

Seen this?

Where's this from because if that's a cartoon from one of the papers its huge. That's a massive leap from social media and niche news to mainstream.

40 minutes ago, Cool As Custard said:

This worries me 

The MP's won't really have a clue about the situation & will get fobbed off by Trevor Birch bulls**t

They'll come back and say they tried but we have to let the process play out

You can see it coming a mile off.....

 

They might get fobbed off today but if they've got anything about them they'll go away and speak to Q and the Supporters Group to form a rounded opinion. If they don't then that's the next thing we push for...

50 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

That was a fascinating reading both from a DCFC perspective but also a business perspective...

7 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

So efl amend their rules and then Gibson puts in a new claim !

Any claim should only be applicable  at the time of the old efl rules , which means it was invalid

Agreed - and I suspect that's what Ashley will be talking to Gibson about. That's assuming there is a meeting happening and it's not made up by Nixon...

17 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Apparently the"new" move from quantuma is basically a restructuring proposal, which has problematic elements (eg starting next season with points deducted, screws creditors even harder) but sidesteps some barriers and has the well, it beats liquidation, doesn't it logic.

It might resolve things, but isn't necessarily a good outcome for anyone (except mike Ashley perhaps)

 

Ian's right, it's been floating around a while but I think the subtle difference this time is that EFL regs don't seem to have been updated to reflect statute. If true, it might force EFL to change their stance. 

Could be one of the preferred bidders teams that's pulled that one out of the hat (likely Ashley's given that's his business model) and if so and we draw a link to the Nixon article about Ashley and Gibson meeting that could be more about ensuring no new action is brought.

Who knows - pure journalistic speculation as someone once said - but it is getting interesting now. Let's hope we move forward - it felt like a huge 72 hours from Friday and a significant momentum shift...

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

 

Nick De Marco has retweeted this with a suitable comment. I'd love to have him looking after our interests in the coming weeks!

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

forget the technical stuff. The news this morning that Ashley is in discussions with Gibson suggests we'll be OK. Because it shows Ashley is committed to us and because Ashley has the heft to force Gibson into a deal. And we also have backups in the form of Appleby and Gadsby and even MM. And because Q have now understood what the problems are and what they need to do to fix things

The key signals as to where it's going will be in the transfer market, because so long as we are losing players the situation is not under control. 

 If we do not lose more key players, this really could become the most thrilling season in living memory. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that if we keep the current squad, the biggest risk to us is not Gibson or the EFL, it's injuries 

It seems Nixon has been getting leaks from somewhere so there may be some truth in it. The other positive is that when you get two businessmen in a room without external involvement (in this case Q and ELF chirping away) they usually come out with a deal. They'll then get the externals involved to make their decision happen.

Emailed our local MP Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) and I dropped Andrew Brigden a line asking about the presence of a 'Boro board member having a seat on the EFL board. I did point out Stephen Pearce held the same conflict but stood aside when matters of DCFC were discussed.

There does feel like some momentum building and frankly I don't care where blame lies as long as it gets rooted out and we have a club to support. At the moment it feels like EFL, Quantuma and Boro/Wycombe are behaving like big kids at the expense of DCFC - what we need is to get an adult in the room and sort it out...