Positives from today.

[EastKentRam]

Last year i came on here and said i was ashamed of the performance against Watford despite the win and got a lot of abuse for it. Well this year, even if we had lost yesterday, i feel very proud of the performance and thought we were excellent.

Now it's down to Clough, he's failed to learn over many things in his entire time here which is why i dont rate him as a manager. If he doesnt realise after yesterday that keeping possession as much as possible for the entire 90 minutes dominates games he's a f*cking idiot.

My main criticism of yesterday, and football in general actually, is that we crossed the ball far too much, i think it's a common thing in football. We must have put in a good 20 crosses at least yesterday and 90% of them were ****. Ward was the main culprit, he was poor yesterday imo, got in a lot of good positions especially second half and didnt do anything.

Although he's not really creative, as Bris said, i rate Coutts, he's comfortable on the ball and keeps possession well. I'd like to see Coutts and Hughes in centre mid, ok we'd lose something defensively, but they're both better on the ball than Hendrick and Bryson and there movement is better. Hendrick was poor yesterday, i really think both him and Bryson are over rated, they offer very little but they kept the ball well enough yesterday. Sammon didnt look great either.

Whole back 4 were quality, Brayford probably the worse, doesnt look as good as he used to imo. The back 4 playing from the back was the source of the good performance imo.

[RIMBAUD]

EKR - what was o'connor like in your opinion?

and tyson?

[Ash]

Personally I'd have a creative player over a defensive midfielder. Clough will not break up Hendrick and Bryson and neither are creative in my opinion. If we keep those two 'sitting' and rotate the players around them I'm much prefer a quality attacking/creative player who can unlock doors. I hate to use him as an example but someone like Bueno would be perfect.

[EastKentRam]

I agree with that Iram, i think having them together could hold us back, they're both too steady, too similar.

O'Connor was decent enough, reckon he could get found out at centre half though against some better more in form strikers. Was comfortable on the ball though and should definitely be competing for a position at the back. Tyson didnt really do anything of note.

I like Wolverhampton thought, a hotel with £1.50 pints right near the station and a burger and chips for £4, especially after i paid about £2.30 per can in London for the train up.

[RIMBAUD]

I agree with that Iram, i think having them together could hold us back, they're both too steady, too similar.

O'Connor was decent enough, reckon he could get found out at centre half though against some better more in form strikers. Was comfortable on the ball though and should definitely be competing for a position at the back. Tyson didnt really do anything of note.

I like Wolverhampton thought, a hotel with £1.50 pints right near the station and a burger and chips for £4, especially after i paid about £2.30 per can in London for the train up.

good day out - a win would have topped it off!

(interesting what some people are saying about ward...)

[Rampant Rob]

I didn't get that from ramsplayer.. That's been my opinion since the moment we bought him.. I mentioned that he's not creative and we were desperate for a creative player..

I've seen him a few times, never impressed and always passed sideways.. People seem to think he was creative because he could run with the ball a few times.. So could Stephen Pearson.. I also have a friend who has seen him more times than any of us on here, and he thought the same (unless there are any PNE season ticket holders on here)..

I assume you don't share the same opinion.. But jues, you don't half like to jump the gun.. From the famous Cristiano Ronaldo nou camp celebration.. Calmate Calmate

Also Rambaud, Ben Davies had something like 10 assists last season.. He wasn't and isn't creative in the slightest.

Bit confused. Assists are creating goals. Creating 10 goals but not being creative, give it a rest.

[RIMBAUD]

Bit confused. Assists are creating goals. Creating 10 goals but not being creative, give it a rest.

creating havoc and mayhem are my favourites.

(usually for my team mates 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> )

[davenportram]

I agree EKR I think Ward isn't very good at putting the balls in the box.

I'd prefer a midfield of Jacobs, Bryson, hughes and Coutts. With ward and a another up front.

I liked how the midfield and ward interchanged positions with Coutts dropping deep and central on occasion and Bryson and Hendrick pushing on on occasion

Sammon got chances and hit the target every time.

[BondJovi]

I get what Bris is saying about being creative. I guess it is more closely linked with flair and creating something out of nothing, seeing a pass no one else sees sort of thing. Putting in good crosses/ set pieces is a different kind of creativity, it is a bit more regulation football stuff.

Anyway. I did not go to the game yesterday or listen. So I am only going on what I have read. Sounds like a good performance and most importantly a positive display. I am critical of Clough being negative but he gets praise here.

[Alph]

3 of Bavies assists from memory

Miscontrol that lead to Hendricks winner v Forest

An awesome ball by Hendrick to Ward/Theo. A cross, Bavies falls over the ball. It rolls kindly to Savies/Theo who score. Goal CREATED by Hendrick and Ward. An assist for Bavies...

A corner, of which he took all corners and free kicks when on the pitch. Kilbane header.

I think Shackell scored from a corner too?

Assists are the last man to touch the ball before the goal. Ward is creative. He gets the ball and creates an attack. Yet doesnt get assists.

Modric - 4 assists last season.

YaYa Toure - 6

All off the top of my head from the last time we argued about stats. Toure and Modric are very very creative.

Btw, I like Coutts. It's Hendrick who might have to make way imo. Good player but looks a little sleepy while there are players sniffing for positions now

Bryson and Hendrick enjoyed a lack of competition last year. Not this year.

Liking our midfield options. All ball players. We have depth now.

[Bris Vegas]

Bit confused. Assists are creating goals. Creating 10 goals but not being creative, give it a rest.

Just like Alpha mentioned.. Half of Ben Davies's assists were fortunate.. He got credited the assist at Forest for an awful first touch which Hendrick capitilised on and scored that beauty..

Also like Alpha mentioned, Ben Davies got more assists than Modric and Yaya Toure.. Who do you think is more creative, Ward or Ben Davies? Bavies had more assists last season..

[SillyBilly]

The stats show that we set out to control the game and not to negate the opposition. I hope this is a sign of things to come and I hope the point GAINED yesterday was proof that playing with intent and not caution does bare reward. I've seen false dawns before and the dismantling of the effective under NC's stewardship but I'm more content with our 2 points in 9 this year than I was in the 9 of 9 last season. If Nigel remains resolute in our passing football and has the balls to make the attacking calls off the bench when required than I'll think we'll be on course to better next season. I remain sceptical until I see a sustained pattern of play across a season for a NC team. I know the vast majority of the Derby crowd will back the team to the hilt if we see us trying to play positive football and we see the bench trying to force postive change in a game. I was chuffed with how we played yesterday IRRESPECTIVE of result.

Middlesborough at home last year was the most soul destroying game in a long time for me. We were midtable and had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I thought we were more concerned with not losing rather than just going for it. We lost in the end with not even a trace of a whimper.

[RIMBAUD]

The stats show that we set out to control the game and not to negate the opposition. I hope this is a sign of things to come and I hope the point GAINED yesterday was proof that playing with intent and not caution does bare reward. I've seen false dawns before and the dismantling of the effective under NC's stewardship but I'm more content with our 2 points in 9 this year than I was in the 9 of 9 last season. If Nigel remains resolute in our passing football and has the balls to make the attacking calls off the bench when required than I'll think we'll be on course to better next season. I remain sceptical until I see a sustained pattern of play across a season for a NC team. I know the vast majority of the Derby crowd will back the team to the hilt if we see us trying to play positive football and we see the bench trying to force postive change in a game. I was chuffed with how we played yesterday IRRESPECTIVE of result.

Middlesborough at home last year was the most soul destroying game in a long time for me. We were midtable and had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I thought we were more concerned with not losing rather than just going for it. We lost in the end with not even a trace of a whimper.

bris

the old fella who sits behind me said at the cup game - as it went into extra time - 'if we play like this all season - going at teams from the off to last whistle - it's good enough for me. yes we're going to come a cropper - but at least it will be proper football'

i agree with him - and i think you do too and you are right when you say virtually everyone else will.

just need a higher dose on the betablockers...

[curb]

The stats show that we set out to control the game and not to negate the opposition. I hope this is a sign of things to come and I hope the point GAINED yesterday was proof that playing with intent and not caution does bare reward. I've seen false dawns before and the dismantling of the effective under NC's stewardship but I'm more content with our 2 points in 9 this year than I was in the 9 of 9 last season. If Nigel remains resolute in our passing football and has the balls to make the attacking calls off the bench when required than I'll think we'll be on course to better next season. I remain sceptical until I see a sustained pattern of play across a season for a NC team. I know the vast majority of the Derby crowd will back the team to the hilt if we see us trying to play positive football and we see the bench trying to force postive change in a game. I was chuffed with how we played yesterday IRRESPECTIVE of result.

Middlesborough at home last year was the most soul destroying game in a long time for me. We were midtable and had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I thought we were more concerned with not losing rather than just going for it. We lost in the end with not even a trace of a whimper.

Funny you should bring up that game, I hated it as well. Clough had said on t'radio at lunchtime that we can't compete with Boro because of their wage bill being so much higher. So everyone sat there quietly as we got turned over by an average boro side. The whole club just accepted it, coaching staff, players, fans, one of the most worst games I've ever been to.

Boro ffs.

[Alph]

Yet wasn't it Boro away where we sat deep and tried to contain them hoping to score on rare counters and were 2-0 down at HT?

Then in the second half we went for it. Battered them. Their goalkeeper saved everything and got MOTM, Bennett hit the bar from about 5 yards.

But more important than anything, Boro barely troubled us. We were desperately unlucky.

I always remember that game as the prime example of Derby under Nigel.

Defend - A lapse in concentration amongst all the pressure costs us

Attack - our defenders have less to deal with and deal with it much better.

Nigel Clough has built decent teams. Why he sends them out to be cautious I have no idea. Because he's proven more than once that his teams can beat good teams by getting at them.

West Ham never got in our half for 20mins last season.

Leeds we had an end to end game but they couldn't find a way through. We were actually forced to defend very deep in numbers due to their suicide approach they adopt in the last 15.

Good teams, big clubs we match when we attack

[davenportram]

from clough on the official site

“We’ll encourage the players to keep playing as they are, with the belief that we have complete faith in them.

“The players showed great composure. We know people have been banging on before today about only having one point and we were in the bottom three, but with 40-odd games to go we’ve been looking for performances, character and something to build on – and it was all there in abundance today.

“Even in the 93rd minute, we weren’t banging the ball forwards. The players have been superb and to get a goal in injury time and will give us a real lift in preparing for Watford next weekend now.

the bit in bold to me says that Clough wants to remove the long hoof upfield - I hope so

[Alph]

I read that and it was a relief to see him say that.

I was worried he might say 'we were good in attack today but defensively we need to tighten up. Wolves had 2 really good chances in the first.....' etc. He sometimes does do a Hansen and look to keep teams out first and foremost.

That interview is very pleasing.

[CumbrianRam]

I wonder if not having people like Green, Ben Davies in the side has helped in this respect neither played looked comfortable in a short passing game.

[Leicester Ram]

Although I agree with a lot of what Bris is saying, I do believe that Coutts is a good player. He isn't a creative player but we shouldn't look at him as a creative midfielder. A lot of his is game is running at players, which he definitely can do. It's not as much about passing (and his passing is mainly sideways) but you don't have to pass forwards as much when you've got the ability to take someone on. He has strength, which we sometimes lack, and apart from Wardy, he can create a chance himself.

One moment which I think summarises Coutts quite well was late in the second half against Wednesday where he waited for the overlap from Brayford an as Brayford drew the defenders he cut inside and had a shot. ***** shot but still 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

[uttoxram75]

I wonder if not having people like Green, Ben Davies in the side has helped in this respect neither played looked comfortable in a short passing game.

Looks like we have more mobile players, interchangeable, comfortable on the ball. Clough really needs to encourage them to keep doing it - even if a result of two goes against us.