Ex/Reformed Football Hooligan wanted for Case Study

[Ram-Alf]

26 minutes ago, BobdeBilder said:

Just wondering if this Phil Clarke and Freddie Howard are the same guys I was at Nightingale Juniors with. If it was, Howard was a gobby little s**** back then but I believe he is dead now. 

I would say they both were, Freddie Howard had little dots tattooed on both hands, Yes "gobby" but very handy to have on your side in a battle in the mid to late 70s, Then disappeared around the time the DLF were formed around 1981...a new football hooligan was born.

Clarke had 2 brothers that I know of, One went into the army who was the older Brother and the younger one who's now a pub landlord.  

[BobdeBilder]

7 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

I would say they both were, Freddie Howard had little dots tattooed on both hands, Yes "gobby" but very handy to have on your side in a battle in the mid to late 70s, Then disappeared around the time the DLF were formed around 1981...a new football hooligan was born.

Clarke had 2 brothers that I know of, One went into the army who was the older Brother and the younger one who's now a pub landlord.  

I know Howard spent some time "at Her Majesties Pleasure" so that might be one reason he disappeared.

[Foreveram]

55 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

I would say they both were, Freddie Howard had little dots tattooed on both hands, Yes "gobby" but very handy to have on your side in a battle in the mid to late 70s, Then disappeared around the time the DLF were formed around 1981...a new football hooligan was born.

Clarke had 2 brothers that I know of, One went into the army who was the older Brother and the younger one who's now a pub landlord.  

Are you saying the DLF were formed around 1981, surely it was the early 70s.

[MadAmster]

Became the DLF when a Rams Director referred to the "Lunatic Fringe" which the lads adopted. Early 80s I thought.

[NottsRam]

15 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Became the DLF when a Rams Director referred to the "Lunatic Fringe" which the lads adopted. Early 80s I thought.

Mike Watterson i think?

[Foreveram]

10 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Became the DLF when a Rams Director referred to the "Lunatic Fringe" which the lads adopted. Early 80s I thought.

I remember the interview but again I thought it was a high ranking Policeman that coined the phrase when talking about some recent trouble. 
This is what happens when you get old 👴🏻😂

[MadAmster]

18 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I remember the interview but again I thought it was a high ranking Policeman that coined the phrase when talking about some recent trouble. 
This is what happens when you get old 👴🏻😂

I turn 70 next month. I'll let you know when I get old 😉

[Foreveram]

2 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

I turn 70 next month. I'll let you know when I get old 😉

7 months behind you, I’ve had a hard life 😂

[Ram-Alf]

46 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Are you saying the DLF were formed around 1981, surely it was the early 70s.

Yep early 80s, It was after the time when Chelsea and Leeds ripped the seats out of the Ossie End middle tier, Mike Waterson at the time when interviewed said "we have our own lunatic fringe" as the Derby fans were below the Leeds fans and climbed into the middle tier and a battle ensued...DCFC moved away fans to the bottom area 2 weeks later and Chelsea threw the seats onto their own fans, It was a game at Carlisle that they gave themselves the name.

video below

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=chelsea+throw+seats+down+at+derby+fans&mid=572A8628131D6FBAFE7F572A8628131D6FBAFE7F&FORM=VIRE

Derby as fans were just a group of "hooligans", We all met at the market place or the Spotted Horse to walk up Saint Peters St, "Football firms names" became more prevalent in the early 80s 

[MadAmster]

Back in the 70s. There was the Burton lot, Willington, Findern, Osmaston, Normanton, Allenton, Belper, Ripley, Ashbourne and all points north/south/east/west... all the "local" groups merged into one on matchday.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, MadAmster said:

I turn 70 next month. I'll let you know when I get old 😉

63 in June , just got in from a day on a freezing cold roof,,,,,         im ducking old this winter😂

[Premier ram]

Went to a lot of away games with Dennis Cross and the boys   Enough said your honour

[Broady53]

Not going into my past misdemeanors as 'one of the lads', but my first recollection of trouble at the BBG  was back in October 67 when we were playing Millwall.  They led 3-0 at the break and some of the lads from the Pop Side went around to the Normo End to introduce themselves to the London lads. Quite interesting watching it as 14 year old. 

The following season when we played them they turned up in numbers and entered the ground early waiting for any Derby fans entering the Pop Side - no segregation back then. Really interesting couple of hours till the full Derby lot arrived.

A few will say the "good days", but glad to see that the modern game as moved on from those days.

 

 

[uttoxram75]

9 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Yep early 80s, It was after the time when Chelsea and Leeds ripped the seats out of the Ossie End middle tier, Mike Waterson at the time when interviewed said "we have our own lunatic fringe" as the Derby fans were below the Leeds fans and climbed into the middle tier and a battle ensued...DCFC moved away fans to the bottom area 2 weeks later and Chelsea threw the seats onto their own fans, It was a game at Carlisle that they gave themselves the name.

video below

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvi?q=chelsea+throw+seats+down+at+derby+fans&mid=572A8628131D6FBAFE7F572A8628131D6FBAFE7F&FORM=VIRE

Derby as fans were just a group of "hooligans", We all met at the market place or the Spotted Horse to walk up Saint Peters St, "Football firms names" became more prevalent in the early 80s 

Exactly as i remember it Alf. Through the 70's it was just Ossie End and Popside. DLF  became a thing after Waterson used the term. The lads jumped on the Lunatic Fringe thing and came up with the Derby Lunatic Fringe.

The hairstyles back then could just as easily have given us the same name!

The 1970's are hard to explain as regards football hooliganism. Every match was dangerous, home and away, if you wore colours you were fair game. Nowadays wearing a replica shirt at an away match will pretty much guarantee you safe passage but wearing a scarf back then would invite an aggresive response.

The world has moved on apart from Stoke, Leeds and Millwall.

[Foreveram]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Exactly as i remember it Alf. Through the 70's it was just Ossie End and Popside. DLF  became a thing after Waterson used the term. The lads jumped on the Lunatic Fringe thing and came up with the Derby Lunatic Fringe.

The hairstyles back then could just as easily have given us the same name!

The 1970's are hard to explain as regards football hooliganism. Every match was dangerous, home and away, if you wore colours you were fair game. Nowadays wearing a replica shirt at an away match will pretty much guarantee you safe passage but wearing a scarf back then would invite an aggresive response.

The world has moved on apart from Stoke, Leeds and Millwall.

And Middlesbrough on our last visit there.

[Ram-Alf]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Exactly as i remember it Alf. Through the 70's it was just Ossie End and Popside. DLF  became a thing after Waterson used the term. The lads jumped on the Lunatic Fringe thing and came up with the Derby Lunatic Fringe.

The hairstyles back then could just as easily have given us the same name!

The 1970's are hard to explain as regards football hooliganism. Every match was dangerous, home and away, if you wore colours you were fair game. Nowadays wearing a replica shirt at an away match will pretty much guarantee you safe passage but wearing a scarf back then would invite an aggresive response.

The world has moved on apart from Stoke, Leeds and Millwall.

The 70s was a mad decade, 3/4 day week, Red Robbo at British Leyland, Robert Relf advertising his house for sale...to a white family only😬 , Strikes left right and centre, A Saturday afternoon was a relief to get away from an ordinary life, As you say most lads were fare game...there were in our case...boundaries, Only those that wanted it got it, I got a few clumps on the way, But all good fun 😁, The Police were the hardest firm, Horses, Truncheons and those size 15 boots 😁They were just as game as we were, Only they never got arrested 🙄, Having your laces taken out of your Doc Martens was a pain, But we weren't completely thick...always kept a spare pair 😁

The worse beating I had was at Luton, I got caught in a shop doorway, Curled up in the foetal position and hope they would move on...they did thankfully, Back on the train and the war stories began, I ached for a few days after but the next Saturday couldn't come quick enough.

Leeds were always well supported a shed load of them came down on a Friday Night took over the town centre...little battles all over the place, Millwall were very handy at there's but sometimes chose not to travel so always ended up fighting with themselves...video below 😁

 https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=derby+county+Vs+millwall+play+offs&mid=49C880D2AB33D6E46A2449C880D2AB33D6E46A24&FORM=VIRE

Stokes Victoria Ground was a nasty place to go, You had to be a Doctor Who character...have eyes in the back of your head, The Cemetery if caught there was the right place to be...plenty of graves to rest your soul 😔

We weren't the Politicians favourites but then again they weren't ours 😁 

 

 

[Sweetness34]

On 09/01/2024 at 16:39, Ram-Alf said:

As you know ICF/DLF were not around then, Tho the Mile End Boys were...WHU, We had a beating in the Greyhound Pub at the back of Wembley Stadium 50 of us on the coach against many more.

Just before the game had finished we could see WHU fans leaving the ground, All Derby stayed behind to cheer Roy Mac and the lads with the Shield, By that time we got to leave the ground half of London was outside there waiting for us, It didn't look good, But we had a fella in Kev O'Reilly as hard as they come, Stood on the steps and screaming at us to move forward, We had 2 choices...do as he said and get a beating or go back in the ground and get a beating when back in town, We chose the 1st option, It wasn't very good as our numbers were still coming out of the ground but soon enough the numbers were getting on equal terms...then numbers in our favour, As you said it was the Derbyshire Miners that helped take the day...and night in Old London Town.

A very hot day with dust clouds all over the place, The police just couldn't cope, You say it lasted a few seconds not where we were concerned, It was payback for the Greyhound incident, Scaffolding poles and planks were at hand, Bottles from inside the ground were used by both sides...probably the worst violence I've seen or been involved in as a 19 year old

Years later talking to some "ICF" lads who were there, They admitted it was our day, Bill Gardner who was their top lad admitted through gritted teeth that "Derby had WHU on their toes".    

These stories are mad! I've always thoughht my dad embellished his stories but the 70s really were crazy! 

[BobdeBilder]

35 minutes ago, Sweetness34 said:

These stories are mad! I've always thoughht my dad embellished his stories but the 70s really were crazy! 

You had to be there, it was ridiculous. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Sweetness34 said:

These stories are mad! I've always thoughht my dad embellished his stories but the 70s really were crazy! 

Yep the 70s were "Madder than Jack Mad McMad" No knives(unless you were a "Bin Dipper" Scouser...just Head, Fists, Feet and Teeth with the odd Elbow and knee thrown in and that was just the police 😁

Your Dad knows what's what, If there was no football then you fought those from Spondon, Alvaston, Allenton and Mackworth...I was from Chadd a more salubrious area of Derby ☺️

[BobdeBilder]

37 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Yep the 70s were "Madder than Jack Mad McMad" No knives(unless you were a "Bin Dipper" Scouser...just Head, Fists, Feet and Teeth with the odd Elbow and knee thrown in and that was just the police 😁

Your Dad knows what's what, If there was no football then you fought those from Spondon, Alvaston, Allenton and Mackworth...I was from Chadd a more salubrious area of Derby ☺️

That feeling as you're walking to the ground,(home or away) and you hear chanting from a large mob down another side street, but you can't quite make out what they're saying. Then relief, or oh s***, as they exit the street in front of you. Certainly got the adrenalin flowing.