Max Bird - stay or go?

[sage]

10 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Predictable and slightly sad sage...

I don't think it's predictable he left for those reasons, but it is a possibility.

I agree it's slightly sad. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, sage said:

He did praise Bird. You are quite right to point that out. In another post i used that information to give hope of a more aesthetically pleasing style of play nect year. A different style of football could indeed be more possession based, playing more through midfield, running less. Just floating a possibility.

It seems such an average club to go to. He would have been on a decent contract so not exactly doubled his money.

You will note I'm happy to discuss your views, though I can see already I'm getting stick for merely as I said 'floating a possibility'. A possibility I've heard from many others.

 

 

My intent isn’t to give stick, just to discuss a counter point. Bird may well have gone for a different style of football, I don’t think it’s that…or solely that.

As to why Bristol there’s often more factors at play than just the club itself. Bristol is a great city, for a young lad (and his partner I think I’ve seen on social media) with some cash in his pocket it would be a good place to make home for a few years, his good mate is there, he’s been at the club from a young age and ridden a very emotional rollercoaster along with the rest of us the last few years, with the added personal experience of losing his father. I’m speculating based on what’s out there and maybe what I want to see/hear/read, I think he was just ready for something different, a change of scenery, club, colleagues, and yes possibly style of play too. 
It’s a moot point I guess as only a handful will ever know the real reasons 

[jimtastic56]

I don’t want to upset Bird Lovers ,but I think Adams will be more important to us next season ,than Max would have been . The Warne /Clowes master plan is to be established in the Championship in 2 seasons time . Expect a team of battlers next season , scrapping for every point . Adams is a leader in that department. By the way, I don’t think Bird will get a regular place in the Bristol city team.

[sage]

5 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

My intent isn’t to give stick, just to discuss a counter point. Bird may well have gone for a different style of football, I don’t think it’s that…or solely that.

As to why Bristol there’s often more factors at play than just the club itself. Bristol is a great city, for a young lad (and his partner I think I’ve seen on social media) with some cash in his pocket it would be a good place to make home for a few years, his good mate is there, he’s been at the club from a young age and ridden a very emotional rollercoaster along with the rest of us the last few years, with the added personal experience of losing his father. I’m speculating based on what’s out there and maybe what I want to see/hear/read, I think he was just ready for something different, a change of scenery, club, colleagues, and yes possibly style of play too. 
It’s a moot point I guess as only a handful will ever know the real reasons 

I was agreeing with you. I'm very happy to discuss stuff. The stick bit wasn't aimed at you.

I'd suggest he's much closer to Sibley and possibly Cashin than Knight. Maybe his gf is from Weston-super-Mare or loves cider or graffiti based street art.

 

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

14 minutes ago, sage said:

I was agreeing with you. I'm very happy to discuss stuff. The stick bit wasn't aimed at you.

I'd suggest he's much closer to Sibley and possibly Cashin than Knight. Maybe his gf is from Weston-super-Mare or loves cider or graffiti based street art.

 

 

Bristol offers the finest examples of both 😁 

Back on point, it’s a shame whatever the reasons to see him move on but I wish Bird well, and hope we finish comfortably above Bristol City next season. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Bristol offers the finest examples of both 😁 

Back on point, it’s a shame whatever the reasons to see him move on but I wish Bird well, and hope we finish comfortably above Bristol City next season. 

Well, we know they will finish 14th, so mid table should clinch it. 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, sage said:

He may well have gone for a different style of football. 

Puts tin hat on.

 

What will it be though? Bristol fans don't seem convinced that it should be Manning's style. They were quite happy with the job Pearson had done and the vast majority were opposed to his sacking, so Manning needs a positive start to the season if he's going to survive.

[sage]

14 minutes ago, Crewton said:

What will it be though? Bristol fans don't seem convinced that it should be Manning's style. They were quite happy with the job Pearson had done and the vast majority were opposed to his sacking, so Manning needs a positive start to the season if he's going to survive.

Manning plays a high possession, high pressing style. Bird was one of our more cerebral players, so I would imagine he has a career development plan in mind. Good Luck to him. 

[Crewton]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Manning plays a high possession, high pressing style. Bird was one of our more cerebral players, so I would imagine he has a career development plan in mind. Good Luck to him. 

... which their fans aren't convinced by. Maybe Max will make it work, because it doesn't seem to have 'taken' yet. 

I certainly wish Max, personally, the very best, whilst also hoping that his new team flounder. 

[Day]

Not knowing Max personally, I can only speculate like the rest of us. 

Whilst leaving could possibly be down to style of football, I don't really see that, think it's unfair on Paul Warne to lay this at his feet.

I could imagine an alternative scenario where Max didn't want to go to the end of the season undecided with a wait and see how Derby do approach.

Could easily have done his ACL, Derby not gone up and had to accept a vastly reduced League 1 contract. 

A 3 year offer came in from the Championship, mid table Bristol City so barring a disaster, guaranteed Championship football, decent money, a great city, fresh start with a mate there to make the move easier to settle. Future sorted.

If Derby go up, great way to leave.

If we didn't, great call for his own career.

One club players are a rarity these days, Jack Grealish, Villa fan, been at the club for 6 years leaves to join Man City. They are not like us, this is their job, careers, so whilst they maybe one of our own, it's not a for life type relationship that we have.

I question if Cashin would have been here still had there been an offer from the Championship for him, having seen Matt Clarke at the club, join Brighton and subsequently farmed out on loan twice to then end up in the smog having never played for Brighton, it would feel like a will I or won't I, where will I go type move. 

Had Bristol City said look, same as Max Bird, sign, go back on loan for the season and you're in our plans for next season, would he be saying his goodbyes as well? Maybe.

[Crewton]

3 minutes ago, Day said:

Not knowing Max personally, I can only speculate like the rest of us. 

Whilst leaving could possibly be down to style of football, I don't really see that, think it's unfair on Paul Warne to lay this at his feet.

I could imagine an alternative scenario where Max didn't want to go to the end of the season undecided with a wait and see how Derby do approach.

Could easily have done his ACL, Derby not gone up and had to accept a vastly reduced League 1 contract. 

A 3 year offer came in from the Championship, mid table Bristol City so barring a disaster, guaranteed Championship football, decent money, a great city, fresh start with a mate there to make the move easier to settle. Future sorted.

If Derby go up, great way to leave.

If we didn't, great call for his own career.

One club players are a rarity these days, Jack Grealish, Villa fan, been at the club for 6 years leaves to join Man City. They are not like us, this is their job, careers, so whilst they maybe one of our own, it's not a for life type relationship that we have.

I question if Cashin would have been here still had there been an offer from the Championship for him, having seen Matt Clarke at the club, join Brighton and subsequently farmed out on loan twice to then end up in the smog having never played for Brighton, it would feel like a will I or won't I, where will I go type move. 

Had Bristol City said look, same as Max Bird, sign, go back on loan for the season and you're in our plans for next season, would he be saying his goodbyes as well? Maybe.

Cash signed a new contract at the end of the January transfer window. If he'd just let his contract run down there'd have been a queue of clubs lining up for his signature at the end of the season. I take from that that he was determined to stay until an offer that works for him and the club comes in.

[Day]

"He believes he is a Championship midfielder and so he should."

Warne on Bird 19th January

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/max-bird-derby-county-contract-9045044

At which point there was 4pts between top and 6th, having seen us drop out the top 6 the season before, I get it.

Had we been 10 points clear at the top of the table, romping away with it, perhaps those contract negotiations would have been a lot easier.

[trappatoni]

My guess is he went for guaranteed championship football - Bristol have spent a bit of money so might have half a chance of play offs. 

Bristol should finish above us this coming season and if they don't something has gone very right at Derby or very wrong at Bristol. 

 

 

[Chopper]

I would have liked him to stay obviously but I completely sympathise with Birds decision, he stayed for a while, but there are career decisions to make. I'm sure whilst in a drunken stupor in Vegas right now with some who he's known for years he might have a tinge of 20/20 hindsight regret, but that'll pass once he moves on. 

Also I think we got some money up front, did that help us secure Adams? Did that keep Cashin? as pressure to sell goes. 

[Day]

One more post before I'm dragged off to the park.

Let's say it was motivated by style of play, these are professional footballers, over their careers they will sign contracts knowing the manager will likely change during that time, you have to get on with it and do your job, like we all do at work even if we don't agree with the managers methods.

Which Bird has clearly done as a Championship offer has come in for him, had it been 2 seasons of the ball pinging over his head bypassing the midfield, he wouldn't have earned that move would he?

Manning could be gone 5 games into the season, wouldn't be the first player to arrive at a club and see the manager walk straight out. 

 

[vonwright]

Bristol's a nice part of the world. They've got some good young players, including Knight and Roberts. They play decent football that will probably suit Bird. And we weren't guaranteed to go up when he signed. 

Hard to say but he might also feel it's just the right time to try something different. He grew up in a Derby system, and a cohort of young players, that has largely disappeared. I'm sure he loves this club and always will, but it might not feel like 'his' project in quite the same way. 

He'll be massively missed and I'm sure he'll miss us.

[Caerphilly Ram]

 

Edited May 11 by Caerphilly Ram
Added YouTube link

[sage]

1 hour ago, Day said:

One more post before I'm dragged off to the park.

Let's say it was motivated by style of play, these are professional footballers, over their careers they will sign contracts knowing the manager will likely change during that time, you have to get on with it and do your job, like we all do at work even if we don't agree with the managers methods.

Which Bird has clearly done as a Championship offer has come in for him, had it been 2 seasons of the ball pinging over his head bypassing the midfield, he wouldn't have earned that move would he?

Manning could be gone 5 games into the season, wouldn't be the first player to arrive at a club and see the manager walk straight out. 

 

Players never mention wanting to play for a certain manager when signing...oh wait

We will never know, Bird has been very professional in all his time here and as you would expect, has tried his best no matter what manager, style of play or circumstance. It's a shame his career has coincided with a turbulent time for the club, though some would suggest it's almost always turbulent at Derby County.     

[Caerphilly Ram]

Wrote this on his whiteboard when he was injured, some mentality 👏 

[sage]

14 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

 

I was there on his debut and whilst he was physically bullied around you could see the ability and quiet determination.

It's the saddest i've been to see a player go since Bobby D.