Palestine

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

But again conflating Israel and Jews as the same thing (technically antisemitic if non Jews do it).

If someone criticises our government, do all protestants take offence and feel picked on?

 

It is a tricky one. But yes I think there is an argument that says that the Scottish Government and the SNP is racist because it blames the English for everything often unfairly. But we live with that. We haven’t had centuries of persecution against the English. 

[Alph]

Could there also be an argument that when white Europeans die or even Israeli Jews that the news is 

"Here is Olga. Olga is a 26 year old medical student from Kyiv. Olga's house was bombed by Russian forces. Here is Olga's house. Here is Olga's old school. Olga hasn't heard from her father, who lives in a village 12 miles north, for 4 days. This time last year she was laying out plans to travel to Kenya for charity work. Now she's staring at a pile of ash and rubble where she would eat with her family at Christmas. 350 people like Olga must today leave behind their lives in Kyiv to flee the invading Russian military who continue to target civilian infrastructure" 

 

Meanwhile Israel blew up some buildings in Gaza, which is a bit rough by the way, and xxx amount of people died. It's tragic. We are all very sad. It comes as Israel responds to a terrorist attack on a music festival earlier this month killing xxx amount of people. Joe Bloggs, a survivor of the attack spoke about the horrors he face 

[Joe Bloggs story]

Now live I have with me Fred Flintstone, Palestinian Ambassador to the British Embassy. Fred, let's just go back to earlier this month when Hamas launched this devastating assault. Do you condemn Hamas? 

(Boxes ticked. I mentioned Palestine suffering so I'm now neutral.)

[Alph]

The future of Gaza 

 

Why Israel should keep going

 

 

Problems getting solved by war crimes. God bless American democracy. UK will have to wave away an investigation into whether it's complicit with war crimes commited by Israel. I imagine that should be no problem. 

Bassem Youssef "it took 80 years to swap the word Jew for Arab and transfer the guilt to the middle east" 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Could there also be an argument that when white Europeans die or even Israeli Jews that the news is 

"Here is Olga. Olga is a 26 year old medical student from Kyiv. Olga's house was bombed by Russian forces. Here is Olga's house. Here is Olga's old school. Olga hasn't heard from her father, who lives in a village 12 miles north, for 4 days. This time last year she was laying out plans to travel to Kenya for charity work. Now she's staring at a pile of ash and rubble where she would eat with her family at Christmas. 350 people like Olga must today leave behind their lives in Kyiv to flee the invading Russian military who continue to target civilian infrastructure" 

 

Meanwhile Israel blew up some buildings in Gaza, which is a bit rough by the way, and xxx amount of people died. It's tragic. We are all very sad. It comes as Israel responds to a terrorist attack on a music festival earlier this month killing xxx amount of people. Joe Bloggs, a survivor of the attack spoke about the horrors he face 

[Joe Bloggs story]

Now live I have with me Fred Flintstone, Palestinian Ambassador to the British Embassy. Fred, let's just go back to earlier this month when Hamas launched this devastating assault. Do you condemn Hamas? 

(Boxes ticked. I mentioned Palestine suffering so I'm now neutral.)

Does Ukraine have an objective for the elimination of Russia? I don’t think so. You cannot remotely compare war in Ukraine with the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response. 

[Jubbs]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You cannot remotely compare war in Ukraine with the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response. 

There are clear parallels.

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

There are clear parallels.

They both involve conflict. And err,.. that’s it. 

[Jubbs]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They both involve conflict. And err,.. that’s it. 

Erm okay, wow.

[uttoxram75]

 

[Alph]

21 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Does Ukraine have an objective for the elimination of Russia? I don’t think so. You cannot remotely compare war in Ukraine with the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response. 

Hamas is not all Palestinians. They only have power in Gaza. Zero power in West Bank.

There are many things to compare. 

The narrative, the response to an aggressor, the attitude towards war crimes, the acknowledgement of UN resolutions, the bombardment of civilian populations and the aid for the displaced families. 

Why are Hamas supported by so many Palestinians? What happens without Hamas? We only have to look a little more East to get an idea. 

Of course it's a great offence to many in the West that somebody should even consider not instantly condemning Hamas. 

I'm assuming everybody thinks Hamas has always been a bunch dirty Arabs that hide their faces, live in caves, murder babies, shout Glory to Allah etc etc. Essentially Islamic State? 

Not an organisation that has at times negotiated with Israel, agreed to recognise 1967 borders and asked to be recognised as the official government of Gaza? 

Because if you even consider that Hamas have EVER been anything more than Hollywood villains then you might begin to ask why they exist. Why they hate Israel. Why they refuse to recognise it. And then you might find some truths about Israel. 

So "we don't negotiate with terrorists". 

Freedom fighters and rebels we occasionally support. But these groups never blow themselves up..

This isn't defending Hamas. It's asking what are the people supposed to do against Israeli invasion where they bomb civilians in the name of national security. Just like Russia

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Hamas is not all Palestinians. They only have power in Gaza. Zero power in West Bank.

There are many things to compare. 

The narrative, the response to an aggressor, the attitude towards war crimes, the acknowledgement of UN resolutions, the bombardment of civilian populations and the aid for the displaced families. 

Why are Hamas supported by so many Palestinians? What happens without Hamas? We only have to look a little more East to get an idea. 

Of course it's a great offence to many in the West that somebody should even consider not instantly condemning Hamas. 

I'm assuming everybody thinks Hamas has always been a bunch dirty Arabs that hide their faces, live in caves, murder babies, shout Glory to Allah etc etc. Essentially Islamic State? 

Not an organisation that has at times negotiated with Israel, agreed to recognise 1967 borders and asked to be recognised as the official government of Gaza? 

Because if you even consider that Hamas have EVER been anything more than Hollywood villains then you might begin to ask why they exist. Why they hate Israel. Why they refuse to recognise it. And then you might find some truths about Israel. 

So "we don't negotiate with terrorists". 

Freedom fighters and rebels we occasionally support. But these groups never blow themselves up..

This isn't defending Hamas. It's asking what are the people supposed to do against Israeli invasion where they bomb civilians in the name of national security. Just like Russia

They are not just like Russia if they are trying to take out militant terrorists whose objective is to bring about the elimination of Israel. Not just regime change ( like Blair and Bush). But Israel ceasing to exist. It isn’t like the IRA who at least had a realistic objective of united Ireland. It is very difficult to see a peaceful solution, however much we all would want it. And that’s about the only comparison with the Ukraine I can see, in fact  peace seems even further away in the Middle East. 

[Alph]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They are not just like Russia if they are trying to take out militant terrorists whose objective is to bring about the elimination of Israel. Not just regime change ( like Blair and Bush). But Israel ceasing to exist. It isn’t like the IRA who at least had a realistic objective of united Ireland. It is very difficult to see a peaceful solution, however much we all would want it. And that’s about the only comparison with the Ukraine I can see, in fact  peace seems even further away in the Middle East. 

That's all Israel do? Try to take out militant terrorists? 

[Mostyn6]

14 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

take out militant terrorists

how do they decide who is, and who isn't a militant terrorist?

This is the big question.

[Alph]

12 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

how do they decide who is, and who isn't a militant terrorist?

This is the big question.

You don't have to if you're invading Iraq for example.

Or if the militant terrorists call themselve Contras or Nour Al Din Al Zenki. Then it's obvious they're freedom fighters fighting oppression. Even if they carry out terror attacks 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Alpha

[uttoxram75]

Maybe this is the real reason for conflict on the Middle East?

 

[Alph]

https://www.rebelnews.ie/2023/10/20/biden-in-israel-doubling-down-on-genocide/

[Comrade 86]

5 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

how do they decide who is, and who isn't a militant terrorist?

This is the big question.

The former will be going about living their lives, not committing atrocities, just trying to bring their children up the best they can in increasingly hideous circumstances. The latter will be pointing an AK-47 at them.

 

5 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Maybe this is the real reason for conflict on the Middle East?

 

I wonder whether such an arrangement might benefit the ordinary Palestinians, or whether it will line the pockets of a few, at great cost to the many? If only there were a clue....

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/17/pa-forces-fire-tear-gas-at-west-bank-protesters-after-gaza-hospital-strike

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, Alpha said:

https://www.rebelnews.ie/2023/10/20/biden-in-israel-doubling-down-on-genocide/

Ah, but it's not Israel, it's just their government, a dozen key figures, no more. The Israelis have apparently undergone some kind of formal emancipation by which they are not to be held accountable for anything that is done in their names, though they will happily move into what's left of the land and homes abandoned by Palestinians fleeing 'governmental' bombing runs. In their defence, a free house and land is not to be sniffed at, is it, even if genocide is the price to be paid.

And before anyone jumps to any false conclusions, stealing land and homes home does not in any way imply their support their government's actions and anyone who suggests that it does, is clearly an anti-semite. Couldn't be simpler really, though I do wonder about the fact that presumably, this 'catch-all' includes every single Israeli moderate alive today too. Like much else, for the purposes of this thread, best some ignore that fact completely.

 

 

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Ah, but it's not Israel, it's just their government, a dozen key figures, no more. The Israelis have apparently undergone some kind of formal emancipation by which they are not to be held accountable for anything that is done in their names, though they will happily move into what's left of the land and homes abandoned by Palestinians fleeing 'governmental' bombing runs. In their defence, a free house and land is not to be sniffed at, is it, even if genocide is the price to be paid.

And before anyone jumps to any false conclusions, stealing land and homes home does not in any way imply their support their government's actions and anyone who suggests that it does, is clearly an anti-semite. Couldn't be simpler really, though I do wonder about the fact that presumably, this 'catch-all' includes every single Israeli moderate alive today too. Like much else, for the purposes of this thread, best some ignore that fact completely.

 

 

I really do not thinks someone who does laughter emojis about 1,400 Jews being murdered, raped and mutilated is in any position to lecture anyone about what is or isn't anti-semitic. 

[Mostyn6]

16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I really do not thinks someone who does laughter emojis about 1,400 Jews being murdered, raped and mutilated is in any position to lecture anyone about what is or isn't anti-semitic. 

1400 most likely means 140, which is still too many. Not unlike Israel to twist facts. 

Just out of curiosity, have you read any of the articles or listened to any of the interviews posted on this thread? I think you should read the link alpha posted earlier. 

[Highgate]

So the US vetoed the UN resolution that called for a pause in the fighting to allow humanitarian assistance into Gaza.  They don't even try to look impartial do they?  

I had hoped that they may be using their enormous influence in Israel to urge as much restraint as possible...but I can't see any evidence of that yet. 

I know I'm just repeating another poster, @Eddie I think, but the UN is completely broken and toothless until the veto system is abolished.