My thoughts if I was David Clowes

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

Their 0-4 away win at Bolton seems to put our narrow defeat to Wigan in a  better light. Would have been 1-1 if the ref had spotted Wyke having both hands full of Cashin's shirt....

You're right, performances haven't been good enough overall but there have been some good passages of play as well. Not all doom and gloom.

We seem to have stumbled on a decent back 3. Although we can't be certain, based on 1 game. Especially with 2 away fixtures up next at Posh and Bolton. Thommo seems to have put the grit and urgency into MF that we were missing. Remember, all of our promotion and title winning seasons didn't start brilliantly. 2 were off the back of 2 wins in 8, 1 was 2 wins in 7 and the others were all 2 from 6. Conversely, in one of Nigel's seasons we won 4 or 5 on the trot and finished 12th. Yes, improvements are necessary, totally agree. Despite the results, there has been some good play, as well as bad and some good goals and chances too.

I admire your optimism and I too have always erred on the side of optimism with Derby County; it's a happier way of living than being pessimistic. But at the moment, you are in front of me in the optimism stakes.

I seem to be just a couple of years older than you at 71 and watching since 1961. I saw and enjoyed all of the promotions seasons you refer to, home and away. I haven’t given up on us going up this season but I just can’t get too excited about it at the moment. There’s still some rebuilding and a lot of improvement required for that to happen and the three latest injuries are a real knock back. But the results at the top of the table were a pleasant eye opener after the starts made by Barnsley, Peterborough and Bolton in particular. For now those clubs don’t look as daunting as they seemed on Saturday morning. What a difference a day makes and let’s hope it wasn’t just a fleeting dawn. But remember Fleetwood hit the woodwork twice, so it could have been much different.

But at the moment, for me we are no further forward in our development from this time last season and maybe even slightly behind. Warne is more cautious about our chances than he was prior to the opening day. Conversely, the Clough and Cox rebuilds at the start of their second seasons when we were promoted had made big advances in the previous 12 months. Jim Smith needed just one season to get us up and none of us saw that coming when we left Tranmere on the first Saturday in November, defeated 5-1 on Igor’s debut and sitting 17th in the division after 15 games. Then started the amazing turnaround and on the Saturday before Christmas we went top of the league when we beat Sunderland 3-1 in just our 23rd game. But the full wonder of that was only fully revealed this year in the book Groundwork on the Jim Smith years. On the Monday, Igor told the management that he found it difficult playing in a back four as he was used to a back three and suggested they try it. They did in a full scale practice match that same day at Raynesway. The result was amazing and Steve McClaren, who at the time was the whizz kid of forward thinking in coaching, was spellbound and laughing in ecstasy at what he had just witnessed. The back three never looked back.

Similarly, the arrival of Carlin on the back of Mackay coming in the summer, turned the Clough team around after the first five winless games. We need a major turning point such as those to bring success in May. What’s it going to be?

COYR

Edited August 21, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Ghost of Clough]

On 19/08/2023 at 14:07, CornwallRam said:

I reckon David Clowes will be thinking something like this -

It's too soon to sack the manager. It needs 10 or better still 20 games to bed in. Of course if there's no improvement by then he'll have to go. I realise that I have to keep the fans on board, but it's my club and my financial genitalia on the line, so I make the decisions.

Hi Mr Financial Director, how much would it cost me to sack Warne etc al, and what would that do to the business plan?

Hi Mr Sportting Director, just on the off chance that we need one, what managers are likely to be available?

I wish that I had managed expectations better. Although we're a giant club for League 1, the post administration restrictions make us pretty much an average League 1 club until next season. I should have made it clear that 'par' is currently mid-table, so Warne has actually over achieved to this point.

Next season will be different. We need to have the right manager in place by then. Hopefully it will be Warne, but I'm currently not convinced we'll be able to attract better until the restrictions are lifted.

Final thought - I'm never giving a manager a 4 year contract again.

Except Clowes, the coaching team, and the players have all stated the aim is to challenge for promotion. That is never 'mid-table'. Everything from the club says top 6 is the minimum expectation. The restrictions don't make us a midtable side. Mid-table is a club wage bill of £5m. Even the most pessimistic outlook would estimate our wage budget at a £10m, comfortably inside the top 6 this season.

[BramcoteRam84]

It’s definitely too early to judge Warne. Promotion is the expectation this season but it’s becoming apparent things have not gone smoothly with the recruitment and as of right now if you were looking at last season you’d say no chance with the squad we have and the injuries we have. But they are still working on recruitment so there is a chance we’ll be in a better position by the end of the window. 
 

However, I think we need to pay attention to the Bolton and Barnsley results this weekend, two so called favourites. There is no way Ipswich Plymouth or Wednesday would have been defeated like that last at home last season. I said wigan were good on opening day and they are proving it. Oxford could also be a factor. In summary - I think this could be one of the most open league one seasons in a number of years and may not require 78 points just to make playoffs and therefore despite our shortcomings, we should be in the mix. 
 

Time will tell. 

 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I admire your optimism and I too have always erred on the side of optimism with Derby County; it's a happier way of living than being pessimistic. But at the moment, you are in front of me in the optimism stakes.

I seem to be just a couple of years older than you at 71 and watching since 1961. I saw and enjoyed all of the promotions seasons you refer to, home and away. I haven’t given up on us going up this season but I just can’t get too excited about it at the moment. There’s still some rebuilding and a lot of improvement required for that to happen and the three latest injuries are a real knock back. But the results at the top of the table were a pleasant eye opener after the starts made by Barnsley, Peterborough and Bolton in particular. For now those clubs don’t look as daunting as they seemed on Saturday morning. What a difference a day makes and let’s hope it wasn’t just a fleeting dawn. But remember Fleetwood hit the woodwork twice, so it could have been much different.

But at the moment, for me we are no further forward in our development from this time last season and maybe even slightly behind. Warne is more cautious about our chances than he was prior to the opening day. Conversely, the Clough and Cox rebuilds at the start of their second seasons when we were promoted had made big advances in the previous 12 months. Jim Smith needed just one season to get us up and none of us saw that coming when we left Tranmere on the first Saturday in November, defeated 5-1 on Igor’s debut and sitting 17th in the division after 15 games. Then started the amazing turnaround and on the Saturday before Christmas we went top of the league when we beat Sunderland 3-1 in just our 23rd game. But the full wonder of that was only fully revealed this year in the book Groundwork on the Jim Smith years. On the Monday, Igor told the management that he found it difficult playing in a back four as he was used to a back three and suggested they try it. They did in a full scale practice match that same day at Raynesway. The result was amazing and Steve McClaren, who at the time was the whizz kid of forward thinking in coaching, was spellbound and laughing in ecstasy at what he had just witnessed. The back three never looked back.

Similarly, the arrival of Carlin on the back of Mackay coming in the summer, turned the Clough team around after the first five winless games. We need a major turning point such as those to bring success in May. What’s it going to be?

COYR

Brilliant post I enjoyed reading that and brought back good memories of that season when Igor signed 

no one after the 5-1 tanking at Tranmere would’ve predicted we’d go up but we did but Igor was instrumental on and off the pitch as you mention

i do think we are lacking a proper leader in that same mould as Igor and a player with his sort of character would be a big plus for this squad 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by S8TY

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Brilliant post I enjoyed reading that and brought back good memories of that season when Igor signed 

no one after the 5-1 tanking at Tranmere would’ve predicted we’d go up but we did but Igor was instrumental on and off the pitch as you mention

i do think we are lacking a proper leader in that same mould as Igor and a player with his sort of character would be a big plus for this squad 

 

@Brailsford Ram Don't you think it was meant to be a switch to a 3 and Bradley that was to be the 'magic moment' for Warne?

Other than likening poor starts and miraculous turn-arounds in what other way do Warne & co remind you of Smith and Mac0? 

I can't see as much hope as you, except in the hope of the current 'top' teams not being as invincible as might have been feared and we'll be able to limp along and continue to challenge.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, S8TY said:

i do think we are lacking a proper leader in that same mould as Igor and a player with his sort of character would be a big plus for this squad 

Of course it would.

An equivalent of Van Der Laan, Carsley, Yates, Simpson, Sturridge, Gabbiadini, Willems, Rowett, Darryl and Chris Powell and Sean Flynn wouldn't go amiss too!

Oh crikey that's set my optimism back hasn't it? 😂

[MadAmster]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who, and how setup at the back?

Rooney, Nelson, Cashin. Much better than Nelson, Bradley, Cashin based on that game. Still more improvement needed though. Can they now carry on and improve as a back 3? I hope so

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

@Brailsford Ram Don't you think it was meant to be a switch to a 3 and Bradley that was to be the 'magic moment' for Warne?

Other than likening poor starts and miraculous turn-arounds in what other way do Warne & co remind you of Smith and Mac0? 

I can't see as much hope as you, except in the hope of the current 'top' teams not being as invincible as might have been feared and we'll be able to limp along and continue to challenge.

I don't really see much hope at all, it's just that I'm an optimist at heart and Brian Clough taught me to believe in miracles. That's all I can help you with. I'm sorry if you were expecting more 😂😂

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I admire your optimism and I too have always erred on the side of optimism with Derby County; it's a happier way of living than being pessimistic. But at the moment, you are in front of me in the optimism stakes.

I seem to be just a couple of years older than you at 71 and watching since 1961. I saw and enjoyed all of the promotions seasons you refer to, home and away. I haven’t given up on us going up this season but I just can’t get too excited about it at the moment. There’s still some rebuilding and a lot of improvement required for that to happen and the three latest injuries are a real knock back. But the results at the top of the table were a pleasant eye opener after the starts made by Barnsley, Peterborough and Bolton in particular. For now those clubs don’t look as daunting as they seemed on Saturday morning. What a difference a day makes and let’s hope it wasn’t just a fleeting dawn. But remember Fleetwood hit the woodwork twice, so it could have been much different.

 

COYR

1961. The year of my first match as well. Just somewhere between 5 and 8 games a season these days for me. Flights and  hotels, train from Brum, match ticket and 3 days food and beer make a huge dent in my pension. Friday to Sunday can knock me back 500. Over for Pompey and then for Charlton but flying in Saturday morning so I might get away with 350 each for those 2 trips. Back in March from the 12th to the 17th, taking in 2 games. Somewhere between 700 and 800 that trip I think. Hopefully manage 2 or 3 other games but that would be my lot unless I win the lottery

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I don't really see much hope at all, it's just that I'm an optimist at heart and Brian Clough taught me to believe in miracles. That's all I can help you with. I'm sorry if you were expecting more 😂😂

Well a few well thought out words maybe? Or just a lie! 😄😉 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well a few well thought out words maybe? Or just a lie! 😄😉 

I don't think that Warne will ever rise in the managerial hierarchy to the heights of Clough, Mackay, Cox, Smith, McClaren or even George Burley and although I hate to say it, Billy Davies. I think the height of his bar will be somewhere in the Championship, below getting us promoted from that division.

I do believe that from his record at Rotherham he will see us promoted from this Division if he is given time but this season is not the certainty that a lot of us hoped it would be. I haven't given up hope of it being this season yet but to do that we need further recruitment above the level we have seen so far and the hope that the rival contenders for the other promotion spots are below what they were last season.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Guest]

On 19/08/2023 at 02:09, Rammy03 said:

Pride park has been a fortress so it's very surprising that we have been so poor and lost 3 out of 3 home games. The players shouldn't be nervous about playing here, they should be relishing the prospect of playing in front of 30,000 fans. When the place is rocking teams find it very difficult to get something here. 

I agree but it hasn't been a fortress for a while now. Before Saturday and including the Carabao cup game are record in the last nine home games wa  W 1 D3 L5; the win was the 1-0 against Burton with a penalty. We need to draw down the portcullis if we are to achieve anything this season.

[Kathcairns]

7 hours ago, S8TY said:

Brilliant post I enjoyed reading that and brought back good memories of that season when Igor signed 

no one after the 5-1 tanking at Tranmere would’ve predicted we’d go up but we did but Igor was instrumental on and off the pitch as you mention

i do think we are lacking a proper leader in that same mould as Igor and a player with his sort of character would be a big plus for this squad 

 

They are hard to find though, that brings to mind Dave Mackay  Cloughie knew that when he signed him. As you say that is what we need now.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Kathcairns said:

They are hard to find though, that brings to mind Dave Mackay  Cloughie knew that when he signed him. As you say that is what we need now.

Do you not think that was meant to be Bradley? From everything I'd read I thought so. I thought he was going to be captain too.

[Kathcairns]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you not think that was meant to be Bradley? From everything I'd read I thought so. I thought he was going to be captain too.

Cant see anybody being as hard as Dave M was.😀

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Kathcairns said:

Cant see anybody being as hard as Dave M was.😀

Not even Igor. Dave was real class.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you not think that was meant to be Bradley? From everything I'd read I thought so. I thought he was going to be captain too.

He perhaps could have been if he could still run, but maybe by the time the players were given the vote for the captain, they realised Sonny was not a realistic choice anymore. Shame we brought him here if that's the case.

[Guest]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Not even Igor. Dave was real class.

Ah! The Iron Man, the most appropriate football tag ever and not once was he ever sent off.

[Kathcairns]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Ah! The Iron Man, the most appropriate football tag ever and not once was he ever sent off.

Think a few people thought he was past it, what with 2 broken legs and his age, but boy did he prove them wrong.

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

Think a few people thought he was past it, what with 2 broken legs and his age, but boy did he prove them wrong.

👍